Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 : Canceled (AMOS-8)  (Read 14131 times)

Online gongora

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SpaceX Falcon 9 : Canceled (AMOS-8)
« on: 03/26/2018 02:26 pm »
Discussion thread for AMOS-8 mission.

NSF Threads for AMOS-8 : Discussion
NSF Articles for AMOS-8 :
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018/03/amos-8-ssl-ahead-spacex-launch/

Expected to launch on F9 in a few years.

Other SpaceX resources on NASASpaceflight:
   SpaceX News Articles (Recent)  /   SpaceX News Articles from 2006 (Including numerous exclusive Elon interviews)
   SpaceX Dragon Articles  /  SpaceX Missions Section (with Launch Manifest and info on past and future missions)
   L2 SpaceX Section




The original satellite order with SSL was cancelled and replaced by a new order from IAI.  This will probably delay the project at least two years.

[Maxar] Spacecom Selects Maxar Technologies' SSL to Build AMOS-8 Communications Satellite with Advanced Capabilities
Quote
Scheduled for launch in 2020 to 4°West orbital position, AMOS-8 satellite will increase access to high-speed data and streaming entertainment to customers across Europe, Africa and the Middle East

PALO ALTO, CA and TEL AVIV, Israel, March 26, 2018 /CNW/ - Spacecom (TASE: SCC), operator of the AMOS satellite fleet, today announced it has chosen SSL, a Maxar Technologies company (formerly MacDonald, Dettwiler and Associates Ltd.), (NYSE: MAXR; TSX: MAXR) to build its AMOS-8 advanced communications satellite. The satellite will deliver state-of-the-art broadcast, broadband and data services from Spacecom's 4°degrees West 'hot spot' to Europe, Africa and the Middle East.

AMOS-8 will include flexible high power Ku-band and Ka-bandpayloads with steerable antennas to enable customers to deliver various added value services. The satellite is designed to provide service for a minimum of 15 years, and is based on the world's most popular commercial communications satellite platform—the SSL 1300—which has the capability to support a broad range of advanced applications and technologies.

"SSL is dedicated to delivering advanced space systems and services that inform, entertain and connect people around the globe," said Dario Zamarian, group president of SSL. "SSL will demonstrate our industry-leading technological capabilities, our legacy of expertise and our commercial mindset to meet all of Spacecom's mission requirements. We are honored to be selected to manufacture this satellite, which will enable access for underserved people in Europe, Africa and the Middle East to high-speed, reliable data—a connection essential in today's digital world to understand what is happening across the planet and participate fully in the global community."

The AMOS-8 geostationary communications satellite will be co-located with AMOS-3. A contract option has been signed between Spacecom and SpaceX for AMOS-8's scheduled launch in the second half of 2020.

"AMOS-8 will bring additional high-quality capacity to expand our offerings and provide our partners with the abilities to add new and exciting services," said David Pollack, CEO and president of Spacecom. "Spacecom is dedicated to delivering reliable and cost-effective services that are enjoyed and relied upon by millions of people and businesses. We are eager to work together with SSL to develop this new satellite."
« Last Edit: 12/07/2018 12:19 pm by gongora »

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Online gongora

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : AMOS-8 : H2-2020
« Reply #2 on: 03/26/2018 07:31 pm »
[Space News] SSL bags Amos-8 and BSAT-4b manufacturing contracts
Quote
In a notice to the Tel Aviv stock exchange, Spacecom said it is paying $112 million for the satellite, along with a ground control system, launch support services, and operational support of the satellite over its lifetime.

Online gongora

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : AMOS-8 : H2-2020
« Reply #3 on: 04/30/2018 05:38 pm »
[Space News] Israel may field IAI-built satellite at Amos hotspot, Spacecom says
Quote
Also unclear is any effect Israel ordering a satellite will have on Spacecom’s procurement of Amos-8. Spacecom has 60 days from contract signing to cancel its $112 million Amos-8 order without incurring fees. Spacecom and IAI did not respond to SpaceNews inquiries by press time.

Online gongora

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : AMOS-8 : H2-2020
« Reply #4 on: 05/28/2018 03:18 pm »
Tweet from Peter B. de Selding:
Quote
Israel's @AMOSSpacecom sat operator, as expected, asks for 30-day extension to entry-into-force deadline for Amos-8 sat-build contract w/ @sslmda @MaxarTech. Co. needs time to weigh Israeli govt order with @ILAerospaceIAI.

Offline Lar

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : AMOS-8 : H2-2020
« Reply #5 on: 06/21/2018 05:07 pm »
Tweet from Peter B. de Selding:
Quote
Israel's @AMOSSpacecom sat operator, as expected, asks for 30-day extension to entry-into-force deadline for Amos-8 sat-build contract w/ @sslmda @MaxarTech. Co. needs time to weigh Israeli govt order with @ILAerospaceIAI.

Just noticed this... what does it mean for those that don't have the background?
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Online gongora

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : AMOS-8 : H2-2020
« Reply #6 on: 06/21/2018 05:23 pm »
Tweet from Peter B. de Selding:
Quote
Israel's @AMOSSpacecom sat operator, as expected, asks for 30-day extension to entry-into-force deadline for Amos-8 sat-build contract w/ @sslmda @MaxarTech. Co. needs time to weigh Israeli govt order with @ILAerospaceIAI.

Just noticed this... what does it mean for those that don't have the background?

They haven't really committed to the contract for Amos-8 yet.  It could end up being cancelled, and they go with the locally built satellite with the Israeli government as an anchor customer.  It's pretty much all politics at this point, who knows how it will turn out.

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : AMOS-8 : H2-2020
« Reply #7 on: 06/21/2018 05:42 pm »
Tweet from Peter B. de Selding:
Quote
Israel's @AMOSSpacecom sat operator, as expected, asks for 30-day extension to entry-into-force deadline for Amos-8 sat-build contract w/ @sslmda @MaxarTech. Co. needs time to weigh Israeli govt order with @ILAerospaceIAI.

Just noticed this... what does it mean for those that don't have the background?

They haven't really committed to the contract for Amos-8 yet.  It could end up being cancelled, and they go with the locally built satellite with the Israeli government as an anchor customer.  It's pretty much all politics at this point, who knows how it will turn out.
or more along the line of what Harretz (media) said is that the satellite may have to be built inside Israel under a tightly controlled watch because some government officials think it could be sabotaged. SSL might have to build the sat in IAI's facilities, secure Israeli facilities to build it or give up the contract to IAI.

Offline Lar

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : AMOS-8 : H2-2020
« Reply #8 on: 06/22/2018 12:43 am »
wow. Thanks guys! Wheels within wheels.
« Last Edit: 06/22/2018 12:55 am by Lar »
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Online gongora

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : AMOS-8 : H2-2020
« Reply #9 on: 06/25/2018 02:14 pm »
For the Second Time: Spacecom Postpones Deal With U.S. Satellite Manufacturer Loral
Quote
In a filing with the Tel Aviv Stock Exchange on Sunday, Spacecom reported that the contracted company, Palo Alto, California-based Space Systems/Loral LLC, has agreed to defer payment until September 25.

Good short summary of the contract situation.  It's so brief I can't really quote all of the relevant sentences without just copying the whole thing, so you should probably just click on the link.

Online mn

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : AMOS-8 : H2-2020
« Reply #10 on: 06/25/2018 03:02 pm »
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/business/why-does-israel-need-a-blue-and-white-communications-satellite-1.6192706

Some more info here.

(and summary here: http://spacenews.com/cyber-firm-catches-chinese-hackers-probing-us-satellites-%E2%80%A2-esas-edrs-c-satellite-nears-completion-%E2%80%A2-israel-close-to-buying-satellite-from-iai/)

Basically IAI needs the contract, if Spacecom doesn't buy from them, they are trying to get the government to buy one from them for the same slot (and claim that it's needed for 'national security reasons'), and it seems they have the right connections so they might just get their way.

Edit: add link to spacenews summary.
« Last Edit: 06/25/2018 03:04 pm by mn »

Online gongora

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : AMOS-8 : maybe around 2022?
« Reply #11 on: 09/06/2018 10:38 pm »
https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Israel-to-subsidize-new-home-grown-communications-satellite-566410
Quote
The government will subsidize the development and construction of a new Israeli-built communication satellite, the Science and Technology Ministry announced on Monday.

The AMOS-8 satellite will be built and designed entirely in Israel by Israel Aerospace Industries.

Offline scr00chy

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : AMOS-8 : maybe around 2022?
« Reply #12 on: 09/25/2018 12:34 pm »
Spacecom cancels satellite deals with Loral, SpaceX

Quote
In March this year, Spacecom announced a $112 million agreement with Loral Space & Communications Inc. to build the Amos 8 satellite. Spacecom's previous satellites were built by Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI). In September, the Israeli government decided to award the contract for its new communications satellite to IAI, in order to preserve Israel's satellite construction know-how.

The effective cancellation of Spacecom's agreement with Loral in turn means that its agreement with SpaceX for launching the satellite is cancelled. Spacecom is entitled to repayment of most of the amount it has already paid to SpaceX, owned by Elon Musk.

Offline envy887

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : AMOS-8 : maybe around 2022?
« Reply #13 on: 09/25/2018 01:12 pm »
Spacecom cancels satellite deals with Loral, SpaceX

Quote
In March this year, Spacecom announced a $112 million agreement with Loral Space & Communications Inc. to build the Amos 8 satellite. Spacecom's previous satellites were built by Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI). In September, the Israeli government decided to award the contract for its new communications satellite to IAI, in order to preserve Israel's satellite construction know-how.

The effective cancellation of Spacecom's agreement with Loral in turn means that its agreement with SpaceX for launching the satellite is cancelled. Spacecom is entitled to repayment of most of the amount it has already paid to SpaceX, owned by Elon Musk.

Any ideas why the manufacturing and launch contracts are tied together? I don't see that noted in the previous arrticles.

Israel doesn't have a domestic option for GSO launch, unlike for commsat manufacturing. They would have to farm the launch out to either SpaceX or ArianeSpace anyway.

Online gongora

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : AMOS-8 : maybe around 2022?
« Reply #14 on: 09/25/2018 01:45 pm »
The news story does seem to match the disclosure form (at least according to Google Translate, I don't read Hebrew).

https://maya.tase.co.il/reports/details/1185436/1/0

Google Translate:
Quote
Re: Immediate Report Nature of the Event: Agreements for the Acquisition and Launch of the Amos 8 Satellite - Update Further to the Company's reports regarding its undertaking to purchase the Amos 8 satellite from SPACE, the Company updates that the last date for payment and updating of the Loral Systems / By the Company, which applies today, will not be extended and therefore, the agreement will not take effect and will be canceled. In addition, following the cancellation of the agreement with Loreal, the company notified SpaceX of the cancellation of the launch agreement. Pursuant to the provisions of the agreement, the Company is entitled to reimbursement of the amounts paid to SpaceX by the Amos 28 satellite for the Amos 8 launch, with the exception of an agreed upon amount of SpaceX. As reported in the past, the Company is working to optimize the Amos 8 satellite program, and examines the feasibility and feasibility of several alternatives, including the possibility of cooperation with the Government of Israel.

Offline IntoTheVoid

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : AMOS-8 : maybe around 2022?
« Reply #15 on: 09/26/2018 02:37 am »
Any ideas why the manufacturing and launch contracts are tied together? I don't see that noted in the previous arrticles.

Israel doesn't have a domestic option for GSO launch, unlike for commsat manufacturing. They would have to farm the launch out to either SpaceX or ArianeSpace anyway.

As I understand it from the multiple above articles...
The Israeli govt anticipates needing additional communications capacity, which it would normally source from Spacecom.
Spacecom has, in the past, procured many of their satellites from IAI, but more recently from foreign suppliers, including Amos-8 which it contracted to SSL to build, (and SpaceX to launch), in expectation of contracting it's capacity to the Israeli govt.
IAI, in losing the Amos-8 contract from Spacecom, decided to build then operate their own satellite, which they had not done in the past, in an effort to win the contract from the Israeli govt directly.
Spacecom delayed their possible contract termination date with SSL for as long as they could, waiting to see what the Israeli govt would do.
With the Israeli govt leaning (or possibly decided) to go with IAI (arguably to keep the mfg in country and support IAI), and with the clock running out on the decision to effect or terminate the contract with SSL, Spacecom decided to terminate the contract with SSL.
With no satellite to launch, Spacecom decided to terminate their launch contract with SpaceX.
No launch contract for the IAI satellite has been publicly identified.
The discussion in the articles seems more confused than it needs to be because the IAI satellite will likely go to the slot that Spacecom anticipated using for Amos-8, and because everyone seems to also be calling the IAI satellite Amos-8.

At least that's what I make of it all. YMMV

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : AMOS-8 : maybe around 2022?
« Reply #16 on: 09/27/2018 06:50 am »
More details here

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/business/spacecom-cancels-amos-8-satellite-contract-with-u-s-companies-1.6509490

(And more details in the Hebrew version: e.g. the amount of money paid to SpaceX is listed as 2.5m, which is the discount they received for a multi launch contract, now that they are cancelling the 2nd contract they owe SpaceX the discount they received on the first contract)

The government forced them to switch to IAI (and the government agreed to pay the price difference).

There is no actual contract (yet) with IAI, still negotiating...

The article does not start a reason for the SpaceX cancellation, but I'll guess that
with the launch a few years away they probably suspect they can get a better launch contract in a few years. (Certainly looks like a: there will be more competition by then and b: there will be enough capacity that you will not need a contract years in advance to get a decent launch date)

Offline Asteroza

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : AMOS-8 : maybe around 2022?
« Reply #17 on: 10/01/2018 01:32 am »
How does this work out in the context of insurance replacement/freebies from the Amos-6 loss? I guess SpaceX is up to launch whatever is handed over to them for free, but I guess the insurance payout gets to decide the replacement sat?

Online gongora

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : AMOS-8 : maybe around 2022?
« Reply #18 on: 10/01/2018 02:00 am »
How does this work out in the context of insurance replacement/freebies from the Amos-6 loss? I guess SpaceX is up to launch whatever is handed over to them for free, but I guess the insurance payout gets to decide the replacement sat?

The insurance payout is just money.  You can spend it on another sat, throw a big party, stick it in the bank, whatever.

Offline Lar

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : AMOS-8 : maybe around 2022?
« Reply #19 on: 10/01/2018 02:13 am »
How does this work out in the context of insurance replacement/freebies from the Amos-6 loss? I guess SpaceX is up to launch whatever is handed over to them for free, but I guess the insurance payout gets to decide the replacement sat?

The insurance payout is just money.  You can spend it on another sat, throw a big party, stick it in the bank, whatever.
I don't think SpaceX can give them a free launch if they don't have a bird, though. I wonder if that free launch is transferrable. If I were a seller, I'd write the contract that it wasn't. If I were a buyer, I'd write the contract that it is transferrable.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

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