NASASpaceFlight.com Forum
SpaceX Vehicles and Missions => SpaceX Falcon Missions Section => Topic started by: gongora on 02/02/2017 04:12 pm
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Discussion thread for Bangabandhu-1 satellite launching on Falcon 9
NSF Threads for Bangabandhu-1 : Discussion (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42214.0) / Updates (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=45522.0)
NSF Articles for Bangabandhu-1 :
Successful launch of Falcon 9 on May 11, 2018 from KSC-39A at 1614 EDT/2014 UTC. First Block 5 booster, B1046. ASDS landing was successful.
Press Release: Thales Alenia Space to build Bangabandhu telecommunication satellite for Bangladesh [Nov. 11, 2015] (https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwide/space/press-release/thales-alenia-space-build-bangabandhu-telecommunication-satellite)
Cannes, November 11, 2015 - Thales Alenia Space announced today that it has signed a contract with BTRC, (Bangladesh Telecommunication Regulatory Commission) to build the telecommunications satellite, Bangabandhu, winning the contract against an international field of competitors. This satellite will narrow the digital divide, as it will take broadcasting and telecommunication services to rural areas and introduce profitable services, including direct-to-home services, across the country and over the region.
As program prime contractor of this turnkey system, Thales Alenia Space is in charge of the design, production, testing and the delivery in orbit of the satellite.
This satellite is based on the flight proven heritage of Thales Alenia Space with 81 Spacebus already ordered and more than 600 cumulated years in orbit. Built on the upgraded Spacebus 4000B2 platform, Bangabandhu will be fitted with 26 Ku-Band and 14 C-Band transponders. The satellite’s coverage zone encompasses the Bangladesh and the surrounding region. This system will offer capacity in Ku-Band over Bangladesh and its territorial waters of the Bay of Bengal, India, Nepal, Bhutan, Sri Lanka, Philippines and Indonesia; it will also provide capacity in C-Band over the whole region.
Thales Alenia Space will also take charge of the ground segment, which will benefit of the SpaceOps Thales Alenia Space tools for the mission planning and monitoring. It includes two ground facility buildings gathering Satellite Control and Network Operations Center based on the SpaceGate Thales Alenia Space global solution. Spectra Engineers Ltd., Thales partner in Bangladesh, is in charge of the civil work of the ground facilities.
To be launched in 2017, this Bangladesh's first satellite will be positioned at 119.1° East longitude.
“Thales Alenia Space is proud to have been selected by the BTRC for the first iconic Bangladeshi Telecom satellite. This satellite identified with the famous Nation's father name, Bangabandhu, is a key milestones for the Bangladesh country telecommunication development and a fantastic support to the national economy growth and Asian region recognition. Thales Alenia Space is honored to be associated to this great expansion plan”, said Jean Loïc Galle, CEO of Thales Alenia Space.
"The contract for this telecommunications satellite signed with Thales Alenia Space, the key European player in space telecommunication, marks a major turning point in the history of Bangladesh, not only reducing the digital divide, but also generating business development and creating jobs," said Md Golam Razzaque, Bangabandhu Project Director of BTRC. "We hope to carry out the launch on the 46th anniversary of our country's Victory Day, which will be on December 16th , 2017 ”.
Space News: Bangladesh Taps Thales Alenia To Build 1st Telecom Satellite [Nov. 11, 2015] (http://spacenews.com/bangladesh-taps-thales-alenia-space-to-build-first-telecom-satellite/)
The contract, valued at $248 million, includes the construction of the 3,500-kilogram Bangabandhu-1, its launch — likely aboard a European Ariane 5 rocket — and the associated ground segment including satellite control and network operations centers. Loan guarantees have been provided by the French export credit agency, Coface.
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Bangladesh has had difficulty securing an orbital slot for its satellite and ultimately purchased rights to 119.1 degrees east from the international Intersputnik organization of Moscow. The 15-year, renewable lease is valued at about $27.5 million and was concluded in January.
Tweet from Peter B. de Selding (https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/819840192328638465) [Jan. 13, 2017]
Thales: Bangladesh Bangabandhu Ku-/C-band sat CDR OK, payload/platform mating in March. Thales-ordered SpaceX launch Dec 2017 [tight sched].
Bangabandhu-1 on Gunter's Space Page (http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/bangabandhu-1.htm)
Other SpaceX resources on NASASpaceflight:
SpaceX News Articles (Recent) (http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/spacex/) / SpaceX News Articles from 2006 (Including numerous exclusive Elon interviews) (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=21862.0)
SpaceX Dragon Articles (http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/dragon/) / SpaceX Missions Section (with Launch Manifest and info on past and future missions) (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?board=55.0)
L2 SpaceX Section (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?board=60.0)
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Faith in @SpaceX sched: Bangladeshi PM Hasina, right, shows model of @Thales_Alenia_S-built Bangabandhu-1 telecom sat & affirms Dec launch.
https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/853884668638318592 (https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/853884668638318592)
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http://bdnews24.com/bangladesh/2017/05/29/bangabandhu-satellite-to-go-commercial-in-june-next-year-says-tarana
Bangabandhu satellite to go commercial in June next year, says Tarana
The commercial operation of Bangabandhu satellite will start in June next year after the launch in December this year, State Minister for Post and Telecommunications Tarana Halim has said.
She spoke at a press conference on the progress of the launch at the secretariat on Monday.
“We are certain that the launch will take place in the first or last week of December. It will be able to start the commercial operation in June, 2018,” she said.
She said in case of any problem the launch might be deferred to January. “There will be no problem if the weather remains calm in Florida in the US in December.”
The satellite will have 40 transponders. Bangladesh will use 20 of those for its own and the rest will be rented. The government hopes to save $14 million annually on rent the country is now paying to foreign satellites.
Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina wants to share the joy of sending Bangladesh’s first satellite into space with people through video conferencing from her residence, the Ganabhaban, Tarana said.
The final countdown will begin in Bangladesh a week before the launch which will be broadcast live, she said.
The December schedule for the launch using SpaceX’s Falcon 9 rocket was announced earlier.
State Minister Tarana recently visited the facility of Franco-Italian aerospace manufacturer Thales Alenia Space in France where the satellite is being built.
Tarana said some tests on initial performance, vacuum, final performance, and final preparation would be conducted before the launch.
“They (Thales Alenia Space) said it would be possible to finish the end-to-end test in the first week of December,” she added.
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I guess a public official for a state owned entity can say whatever she wants. But a PR person for a publically traded company would probably get in trouble by promising that a launch date 6 months out is "certain".
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Is there any indication of whether they are using a new or flight proven Falcon 9 first stage?
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Bangabandhu satellite ground station at final stage, says State Minister Tarana
Shamim Ahamed from Gazipur, bdnews24.com
Published: 2017-07-15 23:59:11.0 BdST Updated: 2017-07-15 23:59:11.0 BdST
Previous Next
The construction of the ground station for Bangladesh's first satellite is at the final stage, State Minister for Post and Telecommunications Tarana Halim has said.
After visiting the ground station site in Gazipur's Joydebpur on Saturday, she told reporters that the work would end in September.
"With the installations of two antennas weighing 10 tonnes, the work is 95 percent complete," Tarana said.
The state minister said there would be six alternative power supply modes at the station.
The station would have a trial run in November before the final blast in December, she added.
Tarana also hoped the commercial operation of the satellite, named Bangabandhu - 1, would start in April next year.
Shafiq Ahmed Chaudhuri, a representative of US-based Space Partnership International or SPI, said 105 people would be needed to run the ground station.
SPI is the consulting firm for the project's market evaluation, training and ground station management.
Project Director Mohammad Mesbahuzzaman said the work to set up another ground station as a backup in Rangamati's Betbunia was also at the final stage.
The satellite will have 40 transponders. Bangladesh will use 20 of those for its own, and the rest will be rented. The government hopes to save $14 million annually on rent the country is now paying to foreign satellites.
The final countdown will begin in Bangladesh a week before the launch which will be broadcast live.
The December schedule for the launch using SpaceX’s Falcon 9 rocket was announced earlier.
State Minister Tarana recently visited the facility of Franco-Italian aerospace manufacturer Thales Alenia Space in France where the satellite is being built.
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Bangabandhu launch now planned for March 2018
(source (http://www.webtimemedias.com/article/thales-alenia-space-les-bangladais-ont-chante-devant-leur-satellite-20171124-61367))
Now completed, the satellite will leave Cannes in February for a launch in March in Florida on a Falcon 9 launcher
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This launch was supposed to take place in December 2017. Another customer deadline missed by SpaceX.
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This launch was supposed to take place in December 2017. Another customer deadline missed by SpaceX.
Considering the manifest backlog, a couple month slip (vs 6 months or more) is progress for SpaceX.
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This launch was supposed to take place in December 2017. Another customer deadline missed by SpaceX.
That is interesting phraseology “deadline”
This word is usually used when there is something that has to be done by a date certain, due to , for example the daily publication of a newspaper. If you miss the deadline, your article doesn’t get published today.
Do you have some personal knowledge that the contract required launch in December 2017 before launch contract consessions would be owed? Or, are you implying that the December launch date was simply the NET date, which, with space launch business hold little water.
While this launch provider, SpaceX, has missed lots of NET dates. They also are on track to launch around 19+ times this year, and are capturing market share. This implies that the customers are generally happy with the package being offered, all despite your implication that the missing of a “deadline” is a concern.
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SpaceX is still months behind on their commercial payloads, just like they've been for the last year, and that delay won't go away until at least late 2018. None of that is new or surprising information considering they had two vehicle failures that slowed down their progress right before a huge number of contracts were starting to come due in the late 2016 to mid-2018 time period.
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SpaceX is still months behind on their commercial payloads, just like they've been for the last year, and that delay won't go away until at least late 2018. None of that is new or surprising information considering they had two vehicle failures that slowed down their progress right before a huge number of contracts were starting to come due in the late 2016 to mid-2018 time period.
I’d think there biggest delay at the moment will be the Zuma payload, especially as its high priority means that all other payloads will have to wait in the queue behind it until it’s launched.
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SpaceX is still months behind on their commercial payloads, just like they've been for the last year, and that delay won't go away until at least late 2018. None of that is new or surprising information considering they had two vehicle failures that slowed down their progress right before a huge number of contracts were starting to come due in the late 2016 to mid-2018 time period.
I’d think there biggest delay at the moment will be the Zuma payload, especially as its high priority means that all other payloads will have to wait in the queue behind it until it’s launched.
If there is a problem with the fairings all other payloads (except CRS) will be waiting for the same reason as Zuma, regardless of priority.
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SpaceX is still months behind on their commercial payloads, just like they've been for the last year, and that delay won't go away until at least late 2018. None of that is new or surprising information considering they had two vehicle failures that slowed down their progress right before a huge number of contracts were starting to come due in the late 2016 to mid-2018 time period.
I’d think there biggest delay at the moment will be the Zuma payload, especially as its high priority means that all other payloads will have to wait in the queue behind it until it’s launched.
If there is a problem with the fairings all other payloads (except CRS) will be waiting for the same reason as Zuma, regardless of priority.
That’s true but they are still going to queued behind Zuma.
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Bangladesh requested this launch to be performed by 16th December 2017 (their independence Day) .
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Bangladesh requested this launch to be performed by 16th December 2017 (their independence Day) .
That seems very unlikely at this time.
Have we seen FAA/FCC stuff for this bird?
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This launch was supposed to take place in December 2017. Another customer deadline missed by SpaceX.
(mod) How exactly is this a helpful post?
Mike Jones: Feel free to PM me your explanation, because from where I am sitting, it adds nothing at all, except a cheap shot (which is negative value).
Everyone else, unless you have actual information to add (like something from the media about the contract), save it for Facebook. The posts so far have covered the matter sufficiently, I think. NET dates are just that, NET, and we all know this.
Bangladesh requested this launch to be performed by 16th December 2017 (their independence Day) .
Do you have a citation or are you just working from memory?
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[The Daily Star] Satellite launch deferred to March (http://www.thedailystar.net/business/satellite-launch-deferred-march-1498483)
The launch of Bangladesh's first commercial satellite Bangabandhu-1 has been pushed to March, although its construction has been completed by the French manufacturer, owing to the packed schedule of the US launching station.
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Mahmood said a precise date has not been set yet but the probable launch could take place in March as per Thales's information.
A top official of the Bangabandhu Satellite Launch Project, requesting anonymity, said there is a 95 percent chance that the launch would be carried out by March. If the date is missed, it would certainly be launched by the second week of April.
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“The US firm has a very busy launching schedule. We asked SpaceX to use a new rocket to launch the satellite. It takes time to manage everything,” said the BTRC chief.
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A bunch of news articles say that last week (Jan. 12) a government minister in Bangladesh gave a target of March 26-31 for the Bangabandhu-1 launch.
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Guys I think these Launch and Landing FCC permits we thought were for TESS are actually for Bangabandhu-1 from LC-39A , Do you agree ?
But the landing cooridinates are half the distance of usual GTO landing cooridnates , Could it be because this sat is very light ?
https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/STA_Print.cfm?mode=current&application_seq=82383&RequestTimeout=1000
https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/STA_Print.cfm?mode=current&application_seq=82387&RequestTimeout=1000
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Guys I think these Launch and Landing FCC permits we thought were for TESS are actually for Bangabandhu-1 from LC-39A , Do you agree ?
But the landing cooridinates are half the distance of usual GTO landing cooridnates , Could it be because this sat is very light ?
https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/STA_Print.cfm?mode=current&application_seq=82383&RequestTimeout=1000
https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/STA_Print.cfm?mode=current&application_seq=82387&RequestTimeout=1000
I'm still leaning towards Mission 1418 being Bangabandhu-1. I'll guess we'll find out in a month or so. If Bangabandhu-1 launches before 3/30 without the permits changing then it would be mission 1380.
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Is there anything other than the timing schedule that can give us some indication if this launch will be on a block5?
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Is there anything other than the timing schedule that can give us some indication if this launch will be on a block5?
It is the next scheduled launch with a new booster (see the manifest thread). The most recent new booster to leave the factory (B1046) was reported as Block V. One month is plenty of time for the booster to get to McGregor for a test fire and then get to the Cape for launch preparations.
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Is there anything other than the timing schedule that can give us some indication if this launch will be on a block5?
It is the next scheduled launch with a new booster (see the manifest thread). The most recent new booster to leave the factory (B1046) was reported as Block V. One month is plenty of time for the booster to get to McGregor for a test fire and then get to the Cape for launch preparations.
To me that's still circumstancial - timing proves that it could be a block 5, but it doesn't rule out that it's still a new block 4. What I'm basically asking is that the new booster we saw pictures of on the road is indeed a block 5. I don't think there's any public news on that yet, is there?
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What I'm basically asking is that the new booster we saw pictures of on the road is indeed a block 5. I don't think there's any public news on that yet, is there?
If you are looking for hard evidence, you'll have to wait for when the booster rolls out.
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What I'm basically asking is that the new booster we saw pictures of on the road is indeed a block 5. I don't think there's any public news on that yet, is there?
If you are looking for hard evidence, you'll have to wait for when the booster rolls out.
Unless someone can catch it on the stand at McGregor.
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So right now it looks like this one gets to fly the Block 5 that's now turned up at McGregor.....
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018/02/first-falcon-9-block-5-readying-static-fire-mcgregor-rapid-reuse/
- By Ian Atkinson (covering the evolution of Falcon 9 through to this first Block 5 arriving on the test stand). Photos by NSF's Gary Blair for L2 McGregor.
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What I'm basically asking is that the new booster we saw pictures of on the road is indeed a block 5. I don't think there's any public news on that yet, is there?
If you are looking for hard evidence, you'll have to wait for when the booster rolls out.
Unless someone can catch it on the stand at McGregor.
Caught, and tested.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=39182.msg1793676#msg1793676 (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=39182.msg1793676#msg1793676)
Edit: apparently not tested, but still caught!!
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Caught, and tested.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=39182.msg1793676#msg1793676 (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=39182.msg1793676#msg1793676)
No, that would be the small site, and it was from yesterday. Likely second stage testing or single engine testing.
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So if this Block 5 works as intended, then it should be ready for quick turnaround and re-use in which further launch mission? Will there be an attempt to press it back into service quickly, to test its improved quick turnaround capabilities?
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So if this Block 5 works as intended, then it should be ready for quick turnaround and re-use in which further launch mission? Will there be an attempt to press it back into service quickly, to test its improved quick turnaround capabilities?
They will go when it’s ready. They may have an estimate of how soon it can fly again. Surely they’ll be learning on these as they start to fly. Start slowly and then increase.
Slow may still be faster than Block 3&4
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SpaceX open media accreditation for the Falcon 9 Bangabandhu Satellite-1 launch in April... and the launch is from KSC's 39A, which is returning to Falcon 9 duty following the Falcon Heavy launch.
HAWTHORNE, Calif. – Mar. 1, 2018. Media accreditation is now open for SpaceX's Bangabandhu Satellite-1 mission from Launch Complex 39A (LC-39A) at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida. The launch is targeted for no earlier than April.
A Falcon 9 rocket will deliver Bangabandhu Satellite-1 to a geostationary transfer orbit (GTO).
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Guys I think these Launch and Landing FCC permits we thought were for TESS are actually for Bangabandhu-1 from LC-39A , Do you agree ?
But the landing cooridinates are half the distance of usual GTO landing cooridnates , Could it be because this sat is very light ?
https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/STA_Print.cfm?mode=current&application_seq=82383&RequestTimeout=1000
https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/STA_Print.cfm?mode=current&application_seq=82387&RequestTimeout=1000
I'm still leaning towards Mission 1418 being Bangabandhu-1. I'll guess we'll find out in a month or so. If Bangabandhu-1 launches before 3/30 without the permits changing then it would be mission 1380.
Well, maybe it is mission 1380.
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Fit checks for putting 39A back to F9 launches?
SpaceX Falcon TEL on Launch Complex 39A
https://twitter.com/nasa_nerd/status/974014866846560258
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Fit checks for putting 39A back to F9 launches?
SpaceX Falcon TEL on Launch Complex 39A
https://twitter.com/nasa_nerd/status/974014866846560258
Certainly appears they’ve gotten the compression bridges removed and the hold-down baskets reinserted. Probably fit checks and hold-down checks to verify all is ready for a single stick. Definitely don’t want hold-downs not holding down. That’s a bad day.
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[The Daily Star, March 18] Bangabandhu Satellite: Waiting in the wings (http://www.thedailystar.net/frontpage/bangabandhu-satellite-bangladesh-first-commercial-waiting-the-wings-1549747)
The satellite is all set for the launch, said Shahjahan Mahmood, chairman of Bangladesh Telecommunication Regulatory Commission (BTRC), which is dealing with the much-talked-about project.
French company Thales Alenia Space, designer and maker of Bangabandhu-1, has already carried out several test runs. It is now waiting to hand over the satellite to the launching station in Florida, US.
Initially, the launch was scheduled for Victory Day 2017. However, it was postponed until this March after Hurricane Irma and subsequent floods hit Florida, said officials concerned.
Talking to The Daily Star recently, Posts and Telecommunications Minister Mustafa Jabbar said, “Right now it's confirmed that it [the satellite] won't be launched in March. It could be anytime in the first half of April.
“The launching station will give the go-ahead 15 days before the launch. Nothing can be said before that confirmation,” he added.
Asked about the possible date of the launch, the BTRC chairman echoed the minister's comment. “Whenever we get the date, the French company will transport the satellite to Florida from France.”
I think "opaque" is a good term for the launch preparations on this one. Maybe it's just the translations to English. Hard to believe they're still repeating that crap about Irma delaying the launch ::) This makes it sound like the satellite hasn't shipped yet?
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https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=288g6962bnlh2kh8fm12o01433&topic=8184.1680
Per this, the launch may now be NET the end of April, which is not shocking as the s1 is still in McGregor.
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https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=288g6962bnlh2kh8fm12o01433&topic=8184.1680
Per this, the launch may now be NET the end of April, which is not shocking as the s1 is still in McGregor.
Sorry, the link goes to a 2007 post?!
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https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=288g6962bnlh2kh8fm12o01433&topic=8184.1680
Per this, the launch may now be NET the end of April, which is not shocking as the s1 is still in McGregor.
Sorry, the link goes to a 2007 post?!
It doesn't?
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It clearly states 3/15/2018 on top.
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=288g6962bnlh2kh8fm12o01433&topic=8184.1680
Per this, the launch may now be NET the end of April, which is not shocking as the s1 is still in McGregor.
Sorry, the link goes to a 2007 post?!
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https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=288g6962bnlh2kh8fm12o01433&topic=8184.1680
Per this, the launch may now be NET the end of April, which is not shocking as the s1 is still in McGregor.
Sorry, the link goes to a 2007 post?!
Only if you have your site settings set to show the newest post on top. It's one odd thing about the site format.
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https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=288g6962bnlh2kh8fm12o01433&topic=8184.1680 (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=288g6962bnlh2kh8fm12o01433&topic=8184.1680)
Per this, the launch may now be NET the end of April, which is not shocking as the s1 is still in McGregor.
Sorry, the link goes to a 2007 post?!
Only if you have your site settings set to show the newest post on top. It's one odd thing about the site format.
Need to link to the actual post, rather than the thread page.
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=8184.msg1799285#msg1799285 (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=8184.msg1799285#msg1799285)
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https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=288g6962bnlh2kh8fm12o01433&topic=8184.1680
Per this, the launch may now be NET the end of April, which is not shocking as the s1 is still in McGregor.
Sorry, the link goes to a 2007 post?!
It works to take me to the last page of the thread (currently), but the better way to link to a particular message is to copy the link from the header text of the post, which I think in this case was intended to be https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=8184.msg1799283#msg1799283
Good practice is to put the link behind descriptive text to avoid long-link issues:
- Per this post (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=8184.msg1799283#msg1799283), the launch may now be NET the end of April, which is not shocking as the s1 is still in McGregor.
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An important note on this, as people look to our mission threads for information on launch dates: at this time, we have no new information regarding Bangabandhu-1's launch date to report. The "late April" date listed in the U.S. manifest thread and linked here is a guess and is based on Ben Cooper's launch photography site which only references "April TBD at the earliest".
Yes, I agree it is very likely to slip given the core's location, but there is no update NSF has to the launch target at this time. Once we do, Chris B will cross post. :)
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I spy with my @SpaceX eye ... a lazy Saturday afternoon.
https://twitter.com/wordsmithfl/status/977618173846581248?s=21
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I spy with my @SpaceX eye ... a lazy Saturday afternoon.
https://twitter.com/wordsmithfl/status/977618173846581248?s=21
Maybe it is wishful thinking, but do I see a shape that looks like a crew access arm attached?!
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I spy with my @SpaceX eye ... a lazy Saturday afternoon.
https://twitter.com/wordsmithfl/status/977618173846581248?s=21 (https://twitter.com/wordsmithfl/status/977618173846581248?s=21)
Maybe it is wishful thinking, but do I see a shape that looks like a crew access arm attached?!
Do you mean this, circled in red?
Isn't that way too low and on the wrong side?
There is nothing attached near the top, where the CAA would go, which is at second level from the top if you look here (http://spaceflight101.com/dragon-spx10/falcon-9-spx-10-launch-scrub/) .
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/spacexgroup/permalink/10156430015486318/
Not sure, but Keith seems to say that 1046 has left McGregor.
Keith lives very close to SpaceX complex. Practically his backyard.
Unfortunately he did not yet confirm or elaborated.
Edit: link to FB post
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I spy with my @SpaceX eye ... a lazy Saturday afternoon.
https://twitter.com/wordsmithfl/status/977618173846581248?s=21 (https://twitter.com/wordsmithfl/status/977618173846581248?s=21)
Maybe it is wishful thinking, but do I see a shape that looks like a crew access arm attached?!
Do you mean this, circled in red?
Isn't that way too low and on the wrong side?
There is nothing attached near the top, where the CAA would go, which is at second level from the top if you look here (http://spaceflight101.com/dragon-spx10/falcon-9-spx-10-launch-scrub/) .
that is the existing STS Pad Escape system with the remains of the RSS obscuring it.
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I spy with my @SpaceX eye ... a lazy Saturday afternoon.
https://twitter.com/wordsmithfl/status/977618173846581248?s=21 (https://twitter.com/wordsmithfl/status/977618173846581248?s=21)
Maybe it is wishful thinking, but do I see a shape that looks like a crew access arm attached?!
Do you mean this, circled in red?
Isn't that way too low and on the wrong side?
There is nothing attached near the top, where the CAA would go, which is at second level from the top if you look here (http://spaceflight101.com/dragon-spx10/falcon-9-spx-10-launch-scrub/) .
that is the existing STS Pad Escape system with the remains of the RSS obscuring it.
Thank you, russianho117, but while your response is correct, exact, and interesting, displaying a solid knowledge of old Spaceflight hardware, it doesn’t help explain where jakusb thinks he sees the CAA.
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I spy with my @SpaceX eye ... a lazy Saturday afternoon.
https://twitter.com/wordsmithfl/status/977618173846581248?s=21 (https://twitter.com/wordsmithfl/status/977618173846581248?s=21)
Maybe it is wishful thinking, but do I see a shape that looks like a crew access arm attached?!
Do you mean this, circled in red?
Isn't that way too low and on the wrong side?
There is nothing attached near the top, where the CAA would go, which is at second level from the top if you look here (http://spaceflight101.com/dragon-spx10/falcon-9-spx-10-launch-scrub/) .
that is the existing STS Pad Escape system with the remains of the RSS obscuring it.
Thank you, russianho117, but while your response is correct, exact, and interesting, displaying a solid knowledge of old Spaceflight hardware, it doesn’t help explain where jakusb thinks he sees the CAA.
It is indeed the small extension on the FSS, you indicated with red circle, that is attached too low on FSS to be the CAA.
I am convinced russianho117 is correct. Thanks!
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/spacexgroup/permalink/10156430015486318/
Not sure, but Keith seems to say that 1046 has left McGregor.
Keith lives very close to SpaceX complex. Practically his backyard.
Unfortunately he did not yet confirm or elaborated.
Edit: link to FB post
He just confirmed the core is off the test stand since a couple of days. The departure from McGregor is his assumption, but info not see why it would not be transported ASAP.
So keep an eye out for it.
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/spacexgroup/permalink/10156430015486318/
Not sure, but Keith seems to say that 1046 has left McGregor.
Keith lives very close to SpaceX complex. Practically his backyard.
Unfortunately he did not yet confirm or elaborated.
Edit: link to FB post
He just confirmed the core is off the test stand since a couple of days. The departure from McGregor is his assumption, but info not see why it would not be transported ASAP.
So keep an eye out for it.
So since it's allegedly left McGreggor (and should reach Florida in the next couple of days if this is true), does that not leave enough time to actually make the April 5 NET date? Or if not on the 5th per say, they still have a week and a half before TESS...
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They still need to static fire and mate payload... also, there is an Atlas planned for 12th that may interfere.
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/spacexgroup/permalink/10156430015486318/
Not sure, but Keith seems to say that 1046 has left McGregor.
Keith lives very close to SpaceX complex. Practically his backyard.
Unfortunately he did not yet confirm or elaborated.
Edit: link to FB post
He just confirmed the core is off the test stand since a couple of days. The departure from McGregor is his assumption, but info not see why it would not be transported ASAP.
So keep an eye out for it.
So since it's allegedly left McGreggor (and should reach Florida in the next couple of days if this is true), does that not leave enough time to actually make the April 5 NET date? Or if not on the 5th per say, they still have a week and a half before TESS...
As it is very likely to be spotted when on route, and it has not been seen yet, I guess it still is undergoing post-test inspection and cleaning...
With NASA now heavily involved, everything takes (much) longer... As could be expected for the first human-rated booster since shuttle.. ;)
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/spacexgroup/permalink/10156430015486318/
Not sure, but Keith seems to say that 1046 has left McGregor.
Keith lives very close to SpaceX complex. Practically his backyard.
Unfortunately he did not yet confirm or elaborated.
Edit: link to FB post
He just confirmed the core is off the test stand since a couple of days. The departure from McGregor is his assumption, but info not see why it would not be transported ASAP.
So keep an eye out for it.
So since it's allegedly left McGreggor (and should reach Florida in the next couple of days if this is true), does that not leave enough time to actually make the April 5 NET date? Or if not on the 5th per say, they still have a week and a half before TESS...
Regardless of if it's on its way or not, once it arrives at KSC, it needs:
1. Receiving inspections/checkouts
2. Legs and grid fins installation (and associated checkouts)
3. Mate to 2nd stage
4. Mate to TEL
5. Rollout to LC-39A
6. Static fire (which needs to be no later than 4-5 days before liftoff. We're only 9 days from the 5th now)
7. Rollback
8. Payload mate (and associated checkouts)
9. Rollout
While no updated launch date is known, I hope this helps with the conversations of why - based on the core's location - a new launch date is expected.
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/spacexgroup/permalink/10156430015486318/
Not sure, but Keith seems to say that 1046 has left McGregor.
Keith lives very close to SpaceX complex. Practically his backyard.
Unfortunately he did not yet confirm or elaborated.
Edit: link to FB post
He just confirmed the core is off the test stand since a couple of days. The departure from McGregor is his assumption, but info not see why it would not be transported ASAP.
So keep an eye out for it.
So since it's allegedly left McGreggor (and should reach Florida in the next couple of days if this is true), does that not leave enough time to actually make the April 5 NET date? Or if not on the 5th per say, they still have a week and a half before TESS...
Regardless of if it's on its way or not, once it arrives at KSC, it needs:
1. Receiving inspections/checkouts
2. Legs and grid fins installation (and associated checkouts)
3. Mate to 2nd stage
4. Mate to TEL
5. Rollout to LC-39A
6. Static fire (which needs to be no later than 4-5 days before liftoff. We're only 9 days from the 5th now)
7. Rollback
8. Payload mate (and associated checkouts)
9. Rollout
While no updated launch date is known, I hope this helps with the conversations of why - based on the core's location - a new launch date is expected.
Do we even know if the satellite is in France or the U.S. right now?
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/spacexgroup/permalink/10156430015486318/
Not sure, but Keith seems to say that 1046 has left McGregor.
Keith lives very close to SpaceX complex. Practically his backyard.
Unfortunately he did not yet confirm or elaborated.
Edit: link to FB post
He just confirmed the core is off the test stand since a couple of days. The departure from McGregor is his assumption, but info not see why it would not be transported ASAP.
So keep an eye out for it.
So since it's allegedly left McGreggor (and should reach Florida in the next couple of days if this is true), does that not leave enough time to actually make the April 5 NET date? Or if not on the 5th per say, they still have a week and a half before TESS...
Regardless of if it's on its way or not, once it arrives at KSC, it needs:
1. Receiving inspections/checkouts
2. Legs and grid fins installation (and associated checkouts)
3. Mate to 2nd stage
4. Mate to TEL
5. Rollout to LC-39A
6. Static fire (which needs to be no later than 4-5 days before liftoff. We're only 9 days from the 5th now)
7. Rollback
8. Payload mate (and associated checkouts)
9. Rollout
While no updated launch date is known, I hope this helps with the conversations of why - based on the core's location - a new launch date is expected.
Do we even know if the satellite is in France or the U.S. right now?
I haven't found any evidence that it is in the US at this time. As of December 2017 there was a government mandate by the Bangladesh Telecommunication Regulatory Commission (BTRC) that the launch occur by the end of June 2018. Also at that time the satellite was reported by State Minister for Post and Telecommunications Tarana Halim to be 85% ready at TAS's manufacturing facility.
Source: http://www.dnaindia.com/science/report-dhaka-to-launch-bangabandhu-1-satellite-in-2018-2455711
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If you go to the "News" section of the TAS (thalesgroup.com) site, they have news articles for spacecraft being delivered to launch sites for integration, for example, "Sentinel-3B arrives at Plesetsk Cosmodrome" and "Two more O3b satellites arrive at launch site". There is no such article for Bangabandhu-1, FWIW.
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SFN Launch Schedule, updated March 26 (https://spaceflightnow.com/launch-schedule/):
NET April 24
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https://twitter.com/Thales_Alenia_S/status/978614402176966657
@Thales_Alenia_S
Follow Follow @Thales_Alenia_S
More
Passenger #Bangabandhu Satellite-1 is requested for boarding soon! Next Thursday on Antonov flight 007 to #Florida ! Live from #Nice #airport, impressive #Antonov !
We'll see on a launch date, but sats generally requires about a month of launch site process.
EDIT: Hmm... Thales Alena has now deleted this tweet.
EDIT #2: Tweet is back. Only thing that changed is info about the Antonov plane. https://twitter.com/Thales_Alenia_S/status/978625089242615809
@Thales_Alenia_S
Passenger #Bangabandhu Satellite-1 requested for boarding soon! Next Thursday on #Antonov to #Florida ! Live from #Nice #airport, impressive Antonov!
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Hello @AmericaSpace . The satellite will leave Thales Alenia Space's plant in Cannes on March 28th. It will take-off, from Nice Airport onboard the Antonov, on March 29th (between 6 and 8 AM local time). After a layover in Boston on March 29th, it will arrive in Cape on March 30.
https://twitter.com/thales_alenia_s/status/978663575412727808
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If anyone hears the exact arrival/departure times in Boston, I might take my 5yr old down to Logan to watch it.
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SFN Launch Schedule, updated March 26 (https://spaceflightnow.com/launch-schedule/):
NET April 24
A Thales media representative provided the same date, NET April 24, to AmericaSpace.
https://twitter.com/AmericaSpace/status/978659601997541376
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The satellite should land in Boston in about half an hour.
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Heads up @BostonLogan! This Antonov An-124 is coming your way. Glad I finally caught this bird inflight (Even if it was from across the Promenade). #UR82072
https://twitter.com/theaviationbeat/status/979422693471768577?s=21
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Tweet from Thales Alenia Space (https://twitter.com/Thales_Alenia_S/status/979697291354402818):
#Bangabandhu Satellite-1 has just arrived at Cape Canaveral. First ever #communications #satellite of #Bangladesh to be orbited by a @SpaceX #Falcon9 #launch #vehicle http://thls.co/j0mh30jeAuU @AirlinesAntonov @AntonovCompany @ThalesAsia @leonardo_live @telespazio @thalesemploi
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Additional confirmation. The Antonov is now making a stop at MCO on its way back from KSC.
https://www.facebook.com/flyMCO/videos/10155231012856625/
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In that photo from the Thales Alenia Space tweet, what's the purpose of those balloons? Are they holding up some of the weight of the deployed antenna?
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In that photo from the Thales Alenia Space tweet, what's the purpose of those balloons? Are they holding up some of the weight of the deployed antenna?
To my eye the balloons appear to be holding up a very small model of an antenna (whatever that is we are seeing) in the foreground in front of the real spacecraft in the background.
EDIT: On third look, the rightmost balloon appears to be behind the spacecraft. So perhaps those are giant lifting balloons? Why?
The scale and lens make me think there may be some editing going on. If all that is full size it doesn't seem like it would fit under that acoustic ceiling.
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You made me look closer. It appears they have a tension meter attached to the balloon string and the balloon string is attached to the antenna. Really strange.
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If all that is full size it doesn't seem like it would fit under that acoustic ceiling.
It looks to me like that acoustic ceiling is about 3 stories up.
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If all that is full size it doesn't seem like it would fit under that acoustic ceiling.
It looks to me like that acoustic ceiling is about 3 stories up.
Agreed. But it looks like the space craft is at least two stories. Hard to tell if that bridge crane would clear the top of the sat from its perch above the rolling door. The scale of the balloons is hard to see in the wide angle lens, but they must be enormous to fill that much of the view.
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You made me look closer. It appears they have a tension meter attached to the balloon string and the balloon string is attached to the antenna. Really strange.
My immediate thought is that they’re doing a sort of deployment test (or just need to open up the antenna for some reason), and since the hinge and structure is designed for microgravity, they needed a way to easily counteract gravity. Balloons are an easy way to accomplish a given, constant off-loading force on a part that can move without a complicated rigging system.
I’m pretty sure the balloons are for gravity off-loading.
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You made me look closer. It appears they have a tension meter attached to the balloon string and the balloon string is attached to the antenna. Really strange.
My immediate thought is that they’re doing a sort of deployment test (or just need to open up the antenna for some reason), and since the hinge and structure is designed for microgravity, they needed a way to easily counteract gravity. Balloons are an easy way to accomplish a given, constant off-loading force on a part that can move without a complicated rigging system.
I’m pretty sure the balloons are for gravity off-loading.
I'd guess you're right. I've had to do similar counterbalances on other space based deployables I've worked on. You want to simulate the deployment environments as close as possible.
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SpaceX to Debut Falcon 9 Block 5 in April
CAPE CANAVERAL - The upgraded Falcon 9 Block 5 rocket SpaceX needs to taxi NASA astronauts to and from the International Space Station (ISS) and deliver U.S. national security spacecraft into orbit will make its first flight on a commercial mission for Bangladesh, SpaceX President Gwynne Shotwell says. Bangabandhu Satellite-1, which was built by Thales Alenia Space for the Bangladesh Telecommunication Regulatory Commission, will be the first Bangladeshi geostationary satellite, ...
http://m.aviationweek.com/space/spacex-debut-falcon-9-block-5-april
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SpaceX to Debut Falcon 9 Block 5 in April
CAPE CANAVERAL - The upgraded Falcon 9 Block 5 rocket SpaceX needs to taxi NASA astronauts to and from the International Space Station (ISS) and deliver U.S. national security spacecraft into orbit will make its first flight on a commercial mission for Bangladesh, SpaceX President Gwynne Shotwell says.
http://m.aviationweek.com/space/spacex-debut-falcon-9-block-5-april
The article further states, "She (Ms. Shotwell) declined to say how many Block 5 boosters SpaceX will manufacture, adding that it will be a 'sizable fleet.'"
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Now NET May 4 per a vast number of articles (http://www.newagebd.net/article/38813/satellite-bangabandhu-1-launches-may-4) with comments from project director Md Mesbahuzzaman.
‘US company SpaceX who will put Bangabandhu-1 into orbit has sent us a letter confirming the new schedule,’ he said.
Additionally, this article states that the satellite's mass is 3.7t (presumably metric). (https://www.thedailystar.net/business/telecom/bangabandhu-1-satellite-be-ready-commercial-uses-august-btrc-1558135)
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Now NET May 4 per a vast number of articles (http://www.newagebd.net/article/38813/satellite-bangabandhu-1-launches-may-4) with comments from project director Md Mesbahuzzaman.
‘US company SpaceX who will put Bangabandhu-1 into orbit has sent us a letter confirming the new schedule,’ he said.
Additionally, this article states that the satellite's mass is 3.7t (presumably metric). (https://www.thedailystar.net/business/telecom/bangabandhu-1-satellite-be-ready-commercial-uses-august-btrc-1558135)
Do we have any indication on the launch window?
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Booster arrival?
https://twitter.com/MoonEx/status/984494354860576774
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Took quite long if it really is B1046... However explains the delay
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I wonder if they took it "into the shop" after the static fire at McGregor to do any post-static fire analysis on the octoweb, etc.
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I wonder if they took it "into the shop" after the static fire at McGreggor to do any post-static fire analysis on the octoweb, etc.
I guess NASA has something to do with the delay. It seems they have done some very extensive post test fire checks and inspection at McGregor.
Likely all for certification purposes...
Block-5 is to be human rated, so better safe then sorry...
Side note:
Very curious how quickly 1047 will be processed at McGregor. Hopefully and likely much faster, though still longer then pre-block-5 cores...
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All Hail Block 5!
Great to hear it finally made it to the cape.
It's a start to a flow, 46 in the barn, 47 in Texas. By the time this flys maybe 48 could be out of Hawthorne.
Looking forward to seeing the Block 5 performance flying.
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I wonder if they took it "into the shop" after the static fire at McGreggor to do any post-static fire analysis on the octoweb, etc.
I guess NASA has something to do with the delay. It seems they have done some very extensive post test fire checks and inspection at McGregor.
Is the bolded speculation, or is there information to indicate this?
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I wonder if they took it "into the shop" after the static fire at McGreggor to do any post-static fire analysis on the octoweb, etc.
I guess NASA has something to do with the delay. It seems they have done some very extensive post test fire checks and inspection at McGregor.
Is the bolded speculation, or is there information to indicate this?
The sheer amount of time 1046 spent both vertical and otherwise at McGregor is enough to suggest that it was a uniquely thorough test regime.
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I wonder if they took it "into the shop" after the static fire at McGreggor to do any post-static fire analysis on the octoweb, etc.
I guess NASA has something to do with the delay. It seems they have done some very extensive post test fire checks and inspection at McGregor.
Is the bolded speculation, or is there information to indicate this?
The sheer amount of time 1046 spent both vertical and otherwise at McGregor is enough to suggest that it was a uniquely thorough test regime.
Or possibly just that as it was the first run through of a new variant of the vehicle, so it took them longer than for the well shaken down models. Each time SpaceX has introduced large-ish changes they've had an uptick in scrubs and delays as they smooth the newly found rough edges of their processes for a new vehicle which behaves a bit differently. Slightly tweaking countdown timings and minutely altering acceptable rates and parameter margins, etc.
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I wonder if they took it "into the shop" after the static fire at McGreggor to do any post-static fire analysis on the octoweb, etc.
I guess NASA has something to do with the delay. It seems they have done some very extensive post test fire checks and inspection at McGregor.
Is the bolded speculation, or is there information to indicate this?
Speculation, but based on talks with someone in the know, beginning of February. He made it clear that NASA is heavily involved in everything around this specific core. All procedures are now much more elaborate to adhere to NASA standards. This requires serious adjusting, including creating brand new tooling to do all the additional required inspections.
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Not surprising considering the audit report from NASA’s OIG on commercial crew.
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Speculation, but based on talks with someone in the know, beginning of February. He made it clear that NASA is heavily involved in everything around this specific core. All procedures are now much more elaborate to adhere to NASA standards. This requires serious adjusting, including creating brand new tooling to do all the additional required inspections.
Do you know if this specific to crack mitigation and the blisk, or is it more wide-ranging than that?
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Speculation, but based on talks with someone in the know, beginning of February. He made it clear that NASA is heavily involved in everything around this specific core. All procedures are now much more elaborate to adhere to NASA standards. This requires serious adjusting, including creating brand new tooling to do all the additional required inspections.
Do you know if this specific to crack mitigation and the blisk, or is it more wide-ranging than that?
Crack testing could be checked on the engines separate from the booster. The whole booster being involved suggests COPV and integrated system checks.
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Speculation, but based on talks with someone in the know, beginning of February. He made it clear that NASA is heavily involved in everything around this specific core. All procedures are now much more elaborate to adhere to NASA standards. This requires serious adjusting, including creating brand new tooling to do all the additional required inspections.
Do you know if this specific to crack mitigation and the blisk, or is it more wide-ranging than that?
No idea. The talk was not very specific, but main takeaways were that NASA involvement increased procedures drastically, including testing and inspection. And that inspection is hard in some places on an fully integrated booster. For that they required new tooling build. Not a problem, but takes time to figure out and get them build. Some requiring several iterations, with tooling going back and forth between McGregor and Hawthorne for adjustments.
I am sure they do it in such a way that it becomes much more easy for later boosters.
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During the TESS pre-launch press conference, on now, Hans Koenigsmann was asked about Block 5 testing at McGregor. He said that testing went well and completed quicker than for previous block upgrades.
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A launch time has been posted for May 4th: 2000-2225 GMT (4:00-6:25 p.m. EDT)
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wait for a update thred
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Ha, just:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=45522.0
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A launch time has been posted for May 4th: 2000-2225 GMT (4:00-6:25 p.m. EDT)
The juvenile in me can't help but think of this as 'The Star Wars launch date'. Sorry about that! :P
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A launch time has been posted for May 4th: 2000-2225 GMT (4:00-6:25 p.m. EDT)
Thanks, thats fantastic news :) This launch is arguably more important than FH (arguably because I think it is but most might not agree). I am on a business trip that day but should be home by that time. :)
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A launch time has been posted for May 4th: 2000-2225 GMT (4:00-6:25 p.m. EDT)
Thanks, thats fantastic news This launch is arguably more important than FH (arguably because I think it is but most might not agree). I am on a business trip that day but should be home by that time.
FH is more relevant to their longer term future with if nothing else the management of such a large number of engines more directly important to the BFR.
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A launch time has been posted for May 4th: 2000-2225 GMT (4:00-6:25 p.m. EDT)
Thanks, thats fantastic news :) This launch is arguably more important than FH (arguably because I think it is but most might not agree). I am on a business trip that day but should be home by that time. :)
It's more important in that the Block 5 F9 is going to be doing something like 90% of their launches.
But it's all the same technology, so I think it's splitting hairs.
Hard to be the raw awesomeness and excitement of the FH.
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A launch time has been posted for May 4th: 2000-2225 GMT (4:00-6:25 p.m. EDT)
Thanks, thats fantastic news :) This launch is arguably more important than FH (arguably because I think it is but most might not agree). I am on a business trip that day but should be home by that time. :)
It's more important in that the Block 5 F9 is going to be doing something like 90% of their launches.
But it's all the same technology, so I think it's splitting hairs.
Hard to be the raw awesomeness and excitement of the FH.
Obviously both FH and F9B5 are important for their own reasons. B5 (along with Boeing) are critical for a return for HSF from US soil. If I had to pick which one to see in person, it would be FH (even the second flight). B5's coolness factor is mostly hidden from view.
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Booster arrival?
https://twitter.com/MoonEx/status/984494354860576774
Whatever it was, it's gone now. https://www.facebook.com/groups/spacexgroup/permalink/10156531268366318/
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Booster arrival?
https://twitter.com/MoonEx/status/984494354860576774
Whatever it was, it's gone now. https://www.facebook.com/groups/spacexgroup/permalink/10156531268366318/
It could be a different booster.
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Booster arrival?
https://twitter.com/MoonEx/status/984494354860576774
Whatever it was, it's gone now. https://www.facebook.com/groups/spacexgroup/permalink/10156531268366318/
It could be a different booster.
And most likely is a different one :D 1046 was/is basically one week away from static fire for a May 4 launch, so we'll find out very soon, either way.
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NOAA wave forecast for Florida Atlantic coast through May 1. Shows building wave action in recovery area prior to May 4 launch date.
http://www.opc.ncep.noaa.gov/Atl_tab.shtml (http://www.opc.ncep.noaa.gov/Atl_tab.shtml)
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Delayed from May 4 to May 7 because of "weather". Of note that the (ground level) forecast for the launch site appears ideal, but the forecasted sea state at the recovery site much less so.
Is this the first time they've delayed a launch solely for recovery weather? Sounds like they may never voluntarily expend a Block 5.
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Sounds like they may never voluntarily expend a Block 5.
Or not this one in particular. Inspection after the first flight will tell them a lot about whether or not their design changes had the desired effect.
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Delayed from May 4 to May 7 because of "weather". Of note that the (ground level) forecast for the launch site appears ideal, but the forecasted sea state at the recovery site much less so.
Is this the first time they've delayed a launch solely for recovery weather? Sounds like they may never voluntarily expend a Block 5.
Where do you see a reason... and the reason specifically being sea states?
That would be incredibly suspect to me. The slip was first announced by the Bangladeshi press on Wednesday - 10 days before the 4 May launch target. NOAA wave models really only go out 96hrs with any good accuracy.
You don't slip to the right because of potential model predictions 10 days out when those models that far out can change drastically.
And then you slip even farther out beyond any predictions available? I'd personally take that reason with a grain of salt.
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Could "weather" not refer to space weather? Perhaps there's some debris too close to the ascent path on the 4th?
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Could "weather" not refer to space weather? Perhaps there's some debris too close to the ascent path on the 4th?
Unlikely. According to SFN, the launch window is 2 hours 25 minutes. Just delaying 30 seconds would put any nearby debris 150 miles (240 Km) away.
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Remember when that guy blamed a 3 month slip on hurricane Irma? Whatever the reason is, it's probably not the weather.
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was first announced by the Bangladeshi press on Wednesday - 10 days before the 4 May launch target. NOAA wave models really only go out 96hrs with any good accuracy.
I've been watching those 96 hour maps for the last 2 days and they've gotten much worse. NOAA publishes out to 96 hours but SpaceX may have access to longer range forecasts. It doesn't have to be "accurate" to be bad enough. And the time frame is not just 10 days out but any time in a range from when OCISLY leaves port until it returns. SpaceX recently lost the one-use Block 4 Hispasat booster due to high seas and they surely don't want to lose the first Block 5.
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was first announced by the Bangladeshi press on Wednesday - 10 days before the 4 May launch target. NOAA wave models really only go out 96hrs with any good accuracy.
I've been watching those 96 hour maps for the last 2 days and they've gotten much worse. NOAA publishes out to 96 hours but SpaceX may have access to longer range forecasts. It doesn't have to be "accurate" to be bad enough. And the time frame is not just 10 days out but any time in a range from when OCISLY leaves port until it returns. SpaceX recently lost the one-use Block 4 Hispasat booster due to high seas and they surely don't want to lose the first Block 5.
SpaceX chose to expend the Hispasat 1F new Block 4. They could have waited if recovery was that important. It wasn't. So they didn't lose a Block 4 to high seas. They opted to expend instead of waiting. And... that decision was not made 10 days in advance. It was made in the final couple days before liftoff when sea states were known to be too bad for recovery.
Weather predictions 10 days out are not reliable enough in any medium to delay a multi-million mission. And I still can't find any reference to weather being the reason; I still haven't seen anyone issue a reason.
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Delayed from May 4 to May 7 because of "weather". Of note that the (ground level) forecast for the launch site appears ideal, but the forecasted sea state at the recovery site much less so.
Is this the first time they've delayed a launch solely for recovery weather? Sounds like they may never voluntarily expend a Block 5.
Where do you see a reason... and the reason specifically being sea states?
That would be incredibly suspect to me. The slip was first announced by the Bangladeshi press on Wednesday - 10 days before the 4 May launch target. NOAA wave models really only go out 96hrs with any good accuracy.
You don't slip to the right because of potential model predictions 10 days out when those models that far out can change drastically.
And then you slip even farther out beyond any predictions available? I'd personally take that reason with a grain of salt.
Found the (seeming) origin of this. It's a Twitter post linking to a Reddit thread where someone asked if the delay could be because of weather. The consensus of that thread - with input from weather forecasters - is that there's no way they have accurate enough forecasts on sea states 10 days out to slip a launch.
AKA. It's not weather.
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Some of the Bangladeshi news articles said the Minister of Communications blamed it on the weather. It's just what that guy does.
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Yeah, here's a link to an article blaming weather. I am very skeptical. This makes ZERO sense. https://www.dhakatribune.com/bangladesh/2018/04/25/launching-bangabandhu-1-deferred/
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The GFS forecast for the approximate landing area shows slightly better conditions on the 4th than the 7th - which looks to be within parameters for a landing attempt.
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From update thread:
We have a Falcon emerging from the barn
Since static fire is supposedly NET Friday can we assume that this is for fit checks for new equipment related to Block 5?
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From update thread:
We have a Falcon emerging from the barn
Since static fire is supposedly NET Friday can we assume that this is for fit checks for new equipment related to Block 5?
NET Friday is tomorrow. Bringing the rocket to the pad today doesn't really seem early.
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From update thread:
We have a Falcon emerging from the barn
Since static fire is supposedly NET Friday can we assume that this is for fit checks for new equipment related to Block 5?
NET Friday is tomorrow. Bringing the rocket to the pad today doesn't really seem early.
Also I doubt that the interfaces from the ground to the TEL have changed significantly, and the fitting up at the rocket itself has now been done.
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From update thread:
We have a Falcon emerging from the barn
Since static fire is supposedly NET Friday can we assume that this is for fit checks for new equipment related to Block 5?
NET Friday is tomorrow. Bringing the rocket to the pad today doesn't really seem early.
Also I doubt that the interfaces from the ground to the TEL have changed significantly, and the fitting up at the rocket itself has now been done.
Is it me or in the most recent pictures on the updates thread it appears that 4 of the 6 FH side booster hold downs appear to be removed.
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Is it me or in the most recent pictures on the updates thread it appears that 4 of the 6 FH side booster hold downs appear to be removed.
It looks like they remain to my eyes, but I could certainly be wrong.
(If you are referring to this image - attached below)
As some others have noticed - it looks like the legs are latched to the core in a different way now. All under the legs, nothing is sticking out to the sides of the legs.
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Is it me or in the most recent pictures on the updates thread it appears that 4 of the 6 FH side booster hold downs appear to be removed.
It looks like they remain to my eyes, but I could certainly be wrong.
(If you are referring to this image - attached below)
As some others have noticed - it looks like the legs are latched to the core in a different way now. All under the legs, nothing is sticking out to the sides of the legs.
This one: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=45522.msg1817221#msg1817221 and https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=45522.msg1816310#msg1816310
The TSM's are missing to and I also do not see the 4 of the 8 hold downs that should be present during FH launches.
This is a better photo: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=45522.msg1817278#msg1817278
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OCISLY has left port.
Has an ASDS ever left port before a static fire before?
Is spaceX still aiming for May 7 launch with a 3 day turnaround?
What is the shortest turnaround between static fire and launch so far?
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OCISLY has left port.
Has an ASDS ever left port before a static fire before?
Is spaceX still aiming for May 7 launch with a 3 day turnaround?
What is the shortest turnaround between static fire and launch so far?
Yes, the ASDS has left port before the static fire before.
CRS-8 and CRS-9 both launched 2 days after the static fire.
That is, of course, in the era of "do the static fire with the payload on."
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Seeing pictures of F9 B5 vertical at the pad, with the RSS basically gone and the FSS as clean as we have ever seen it, this feels like quite a milestone. Here's hoping for a trouble-free maiden flight of the final Falcon 9 block!
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Ok here is a stupid question.
I can't seem to see the block number in the photos. I read one comment that said it was under the grid fins. Anybody have a pic with the block number in it?
EDIT:
I meant core number and link below shows it well.
I was looking at the pad photos and now I know where to look I can just barely make out where it is.
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Ok here is a stupid question.
I can't seem to see the block number in the photos. I read one comment that said it was under the grid fins. Anybody have a pic with the block number in it?
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42465.msg1817418#msg1817418
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Ok here is a stupid question.
I can't seem to see the block number in the photos. I read one comment that said it was under the grid fins. Anybody have a pic with the block number in it?
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42465.msg1817418#msg1817418
I think he meant the core number, which I can't see either.
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Ok here is a stupid question.
I can't seem to see the block number in the photos. I read one comment that said it was under the grid fins. Anybody have a pic with the block number in it?
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42465.msg1817418#msg1817418
I think he meant the core number, which I can't see either.
Look closer - the '46' is there in tiny text, just under the grid fins.
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Ok here is a stupid question.
I can't seem to see the block number in the photos. I read one comment that said it was under the grid fins. Anybody have a pic with the block number in it?
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42465.msg1817418#msg1817418
I think he meant the core number, which I can't see either.
Look a couple feet below the grid fin towards the right side. Look for '46' not '1046'
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Ok here is a stupid question.
I can't seem to see the block number in the photos. I read one comment that said it was under the grid fins. Anybody have a pic with the block number in it?
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42465.msg1817418#msg1817418
I think he meant the core number, which I can't see either.
Look a couple feet below the grid fin towards the right side. Look for '46' not '1046'
I only saw it on one of the images, I don't think it is under all of the grid fins. But I did see the "46" once.
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I only saw it on one of the images, I don't think it is under all of the grid fins. But I did see the "46" once.
Look closer. Here is a crop from Craig_VG's excellent panorama here: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42465.msg1817418#msg1817418
The '46' is there under both grid fins. So it is likely there under both grid fins on the other side as well.
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I still wish they'd
right write amazing the core number large and vertically in some silly sci-fi font:
Edit: I'm trying to get better at letting my typos live on and not over edit but that is beyond the pale.
P.S. This is not a joke, I really want SpaceX to do this.
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I still wish they'd right the core number large and vertically in some silly sci-fi font:
Nah, they need to be named. Like the shuttles were. They are going to be reused many times afterall.
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I still wish they'd right the core number large and vertically in some silly sci-fi font:
Nah, they need to be named. Like the shuttles were. They are going to be reused many times afterall.
See my sig ;)
1046 is "Only Slightly Bent"
1047 is "The Ends of Invention"
(it's silly but fun)
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Falcon 9 Block 5 completes its hold down firing! Totally enveloped itself in exhaust and she’s still standing once it cleared! 🤩 woohoo! 👏 @Teslarati #spacex #falcon9 #Block5
May 4th be with you. Aparently Force is with Falcon 9 Block V.
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Is there some good reason why this is LC-39A and not SLC-40? Like some equipment updated for block 5 first in LC-39A, later in SLC-40?
Or is it just a "random schedule effect" ?
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Is there some good reason why this is LC-39A and not SLC-40? Like some equipment updated for block 5 first in LC-39A, later in SLC-40?
Or is it just a "random schedule effect" ?
I've just assumed that it was part of SpaceX's efforts to demonstrate safety&reliability of the Block 5 for use on Commercial Crew missions. NASA wants at least 7 flights of it before putting crew on top. But while most of the discussion around that requirement has focused directly on the Falcon 9 vehicle, it really encompasses more than just the launch vehicle. Which means that part of what they are looking for is how the new variant interacts with the other parts of the whole Crew Transportation System, i.e. the Ground Segment and Crew Dragon. It's not that a Block 5 flight from SLC-40 or SLC-4E would be useless, just that those from LC-39A are "more better". Besides the additional analysis that can be done, launching from there as early as possible also maximizes the schedule margin to make any changes/adjustments needed should launches of Block 5 from LC-39A encounter new issues not seen on launches of previous variants or on those undertaken from SpaceX's other pads.
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Forgive the Captain Obvious question, but does this NOTAM mean launch has been delayed from May 7/backup date May 8 to May 8?
NOTAM for launch on May 8
A0737/18 - EROP X9504 ATTENTION AIRLINE DISPATCHERS, SOME OPS APPEAR TO BE USING THE NOTAM BEGINNING TIME TO START FILING ROUTES AROUND THE LAUNCH OPS. LAUNCH HAZARD AREA TIMES IN THE NOTAM ARE ALT SPECIFIC AND DO NOT AFFECT ALL OPS. THIS NOTAM CONTAINS A BREAKDOWN OF THE TIMES FOR PRE-LAUNCH AND LAUNCH CLOSURES. THE FOLLOWING AIRSPACE IS IN USE FOR A MISSILE LAUNCH/SPLASH DOWN. DURING THESE TIMES KZMA ARTCC/OAC, ZJX ARTCC AND KZNY ARTCC/OAC WILL NOT APPROVE IFR FLT WI 45NM OF THE AFFECTED OCEANIC STNR AIRSPACE RESERVATIONS WEST OF 6000W, 50NM BTN 6000W AND 5500W, AND 60NM EAST OF 5500W OR WI AFFECTED WARNING AREA AIRSPACE. EFFECTIVE: 1805081803-1805082315 W497A WEST OF 80 WEST, SFC-5000FT MSL 1805081803-1805082315 CAPE ATC ASSIGNED AIRSPACE, SFC-FL180 1805081933-1805082315 R2933, 5000FT MSL-UNL 1805081933-1805082315 R2934, SFC-UNL 1805082003-1805082315 LAUNCH HAZARD AREA A WI AN AREA DEFINED AS 2845N08037W TO 2837N08039W TO 2829N08035W TO 2802N07429W TO END PART 1 OF 4. 08 MAY 18:03 2018 UNTIL 08 MAY 23:15 2018. CREATED: 04 MAY 01:07 2018
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Forgive the Captain Obvious question, but does this NOTAM mean launch has been delayed from May 7/backup date May 8 to May 8?
NOTAM for launch on May 8
A0737/18 - EROP X9504 ATTENTION AIRLINE DISPATCHERS, SOME OPS APPEAR TO BE USING THE NOTAM BEGINNING TIME TO START FILING ROUTES AROUND THE LAUNCH OPS. LAUNCH HAZARD AREA TIMES IN THE NOTAM ARE ALT SPECIFIC AND DO NOT AFFECT ALL OPS. THIS NOTAM CONTAINS A BREAKDOWN OF THE TIMES FOR PRE-LAUNCH AND LAUNCH CLOSURES. THE FOLLOWING AIRSPACE IS IN USE FOR A MISSILE LAUNCH/SPLASH DOWN. DURING THESE TIMES KZMA ARTCC/OAC, ZJX ARTCC AND KZNY ARTCC/OAC WILL NOT APPROVE IFR FLT WI 45NM OF THE AFFECTED OCEANIC STNR AIRSPACE RESERVATIONS WEST OF 6000W, 50NM BTN 6000W AND 5500W, AND 60NM EAST OF 5500W OR WI AFFECTED WARNING AREA AIRSPACE. EFFECTIVE: 1805081803-1805082315 W497A WEST OF 80 WEST, SFC-5000FT MSL 1805081803-1805082315 CAPE ATC ASSIGNED AIRSPACE, SFC-FL180 1805081933-1805082315 R2933, 5000FT MSL-UNL 1805081933-1805082315 R2934, SFC-UNL 1805082003-1805082315 LAUNCH HAZARD AREA A WI AN AREA DEFINED AS 2845N08037W TO 2837N08039W TO 2829N08035W TO 2802N07429W TO END PART 1 OF 4. 08 MAY 18:03 2018 UNTIL 08 MAY 23:15 2018. CREATED: 04 MAY 01:07 2018
Probably, but no official launch day target has been announced so it could easily slip further. The F9 hasn’t even left the pad yet to get the payload.
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This person claiming to work on the Bangabandhu mission told me that there was a technical issue during yesterday's static fire.
I'm a team member of Bangabandhu Satellite Project from Bangladesh. Some moments ago we came to know that @SpaceX is analyzing the bug of testing result of block 5 in California. We are still in doubt our satellite will be launching either 8 or 9
https://twitter.com/shibleeimtiaz/status/992836962061959168
" @SpaceX is analyzing the bug of testing result of block 5 in California."
That to me sounds more like SpaceX discovered an issue with another Block 5 core and they are making extra sure that 1046 is OK.
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This person claiming to work on the Bangabandhu mission told me that there was a technical issue during yesterday's static fire.
I'm a team member of Bangabandhu Satellite Project from Bangladesh. Some moments ago we came to know that @SpaceX is analyzing the bug of testing result of block 5 in California. We are still in doubt our satellite will be launching either 8 or 9
https://twitter.com/shibleeimtiaz/status/992836962061959168
" @SpaceX is analyzing the bug of testing result of block 5 in California."
That to me sounds more like SpaceX discovered an issue with another Block 5 core and they are making extra sure that 1046 is OK.
I would interpret that as saying the engineers in Hawthorne are looking at the results of the static fire.
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Here's hoping it's just poor translation back and forth and this is just them repeating what SpaceX said about analyzing the data (and that it is normal), and they don't know when launching yet because they have to finish analysis first.
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We also need to keep in mind that this is a major event for the government of Bangladesh. They probably don't just want "launch as soon as it's ready". They want to know it's ready and get a few days notice of a launch date so they can send their official delegations to Florida and schedule their related activities back home.
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And I am wishing Shiblee good fortune in his quest for a new job (BTW, that tweet has been deleted).
Edit to add: We all need to be cognizant of the fact that the people closest to the events we on this forum are so interested in, the people who can validate our points and conversations, are also people - with a job they probably want to keep. Yet we also want to (and are often challenged to) back up our statements here at NSF with sources. Therefore I suggest we might institute a “fact clearing house”, where sensitive (or possibly sensitive) source quotes are fed through Chris B or proxy. Then Chris could be the validation and we don’t have to expose the source while still retaining credibility.
Thoughts?
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According to this newspaper of Bangladesh, the testing of theBangabandhu-1 Satellite, the first satellite of Bangladesh has been done and the testing results are being awaited
The testing of Bangladesh's first satellite, Bangabandhu-1 has been completed, Chairman of Bangladesh Telecommunication Regulatory Commission Dr Shahjahan Mahmood said today.
"The testing results will be known by Saturday afternoon (Bangladesh time)," he said.
Sources at SpaceX said the launching date will be fixed once all the preparations are completed after the test.
The launching of Bangabandhu-1 was deferred on Tuesday for technical reasons and unfavourable weather.
With the latest one, the launching schedule of the country's lone satellite has been deferred eight times.
The Bangabandhu Satellite with a capacity of 1,600 megahertz will have 40 transponders and the physical equipment of the space capsule that measures the capacity.
Later, BTRC signed a deal involving Tk 2,000 crore with Thales Alenia Space to construct the first-ever satellite project.
Bangladesh will be the 57th country when Bangabandhu-1 to be launched into the orbital slot on 119.1degree east longitude which (slot) was bought from Russian satellite company 'Intersputnik' for US$ 28 million in January 2015.
source :
Testing of Bangabandhu Satellite-1 done: BTRC chief (https://www.thedailystar.net/country/testing-bangabandhu-satellite-1-done-btrc-chairman-1571827)
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According to spaceflightnow, the tentative launch window: Approx. 2000-2225 GMT (4:00-6:25 p.m. EDT) on May 8
https://spaceflightnow.com/launch-schedule/
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According to spaceflightnow, the tentative launch window: Approx. 2000-2225 GMT (4:00-6:25 p.m. EDT) on May 8
https://spaceflightnow.com/launch-schedule/
??
Now just saying "Early May" with last change May 4.
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According to spaceflightnow, the tentative launch window: Approx. 2000-2225 GMT (4:00-6:25 p.m. EDT) on May 8
https://spaceflightnow.com/launch-schedule/
??
Now just saying "Early May" with last change May 4.
May 10th as per spacex tweet
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Therefore I suggest we might institute a “fact clearing house”, where sensitive (or possibly sensitive) source quotes are fed through Chris B or proxy. Then Chris could be the validation and we don’t have to expose the source while still retaining credibility.
Thoughts?
*cough* L2 *cough*
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The Bangladeshi Newspaper Dailystar confirms that the launch date is set on May 10
source :
Bangabandhu-1 now set to be launched May 10 (https://www.thedailystar.net/country/bangabandhu-1-satellite-bangladesh-now-set-be-launched-may-10-1572730)
The new date for launching Bangabandhu-1, the first ever satellite of the country, has been set on May 10, Bangladesh Telecommunication Regulatory Commission (BTRC) confirmed today.
The country's first geostationary communications satellite will be launched by Falcon 9 rocket of US launching firm Space Exploration Technologies Corporation (SpaceX) from Cape Canaveral launching pad of Florida.
The launch will take place at 4:00pm (Florida local time), Md Zakir Hossain Khan, senior assistant director of BTRC told The Daily Star. On May 4 (Florida local time), a "fire test" of Falcon 9 rocket was successfully conducted. After analysing the data collected from the test, the final date has been fixed, the BTRC official said.
The 3.7-tonne satellite was built by Thales Alenia Space, a France satellite company.
--- [ --- ]
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Therefore I suggest we might institute a “fact clearing house”, where sensitive (or possibly sensitive) source quotes are fed through Chris B or proxy. Then Chris could be the validation and we don’t have to expose the source while still retaining credibility.
Thoughts?
*cough* L2 *cough*
L2 is still public, just behind a paywall. Sensitive information should not be on there either if it not public.
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When can we expect the press kit to be released ?
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When can we expect the press kit to be released ?
In a few hours as they release it at around T-24hr.
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When can we expect the press kit to be released ?
In a few hours as they release it at around T-24hr.
when can we expect the confirmation of payload attachment, Roll-out and lift to vertical?
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When can we expect the press kit to be released ?
In a few hours as they release it at around T-24hr.
when can we expect the confirmation of payload attachment, Roll-out and lift to vertical?
Tomorrow morning, when the photographers arrive after SpaceX sneaks it out overnight.
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SpaceNews: How Bangladesh became SpaceX's first Block 5 Falcon 9 customer: http://spacenews.com/how-bangladesh-became-spacexs-first-block-5-falcon-9-customer/.
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Press kit and patch are now up.
B5 has such incredible performance, they had to park the ASDS off Japan as marked by the clover.
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I think the webcast's a bit confuzzled. It's showing 'Live in 10 hours: 10 May 9:12' (British Summer Time). What's 12 hours between friends?
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Tweet from Peter Guggenbach (https://twitter.com/PeterGuggenbach/status/994195743102693377):
Excited about an upcoming launch. The central tube (the main structure) for the #Bangabandhu Satellite-1 has been produced and delivered by RUAG in #Linköping. The #satellite is due for launch tomorrow
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Why is the RP-1 loaded later than usual on block 5 ? -35min vs -1h10min for TESS or CRS-14 for instance.
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Why is the RP-1 loaded later than usual on block 5 ? -35min vs -1h10min for TESS or CRS-14 for instance.
Because reverting back to the old "load-and-go" procedure gives the F9 better performance.
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It has been mentioned that the 2nd stage is also block 5. What upgrades are on the 2nd stage that makes it different from block 4?
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It has been mentioned that the 2nd stage is also block 5. What upgrades are on the 2nd stage that makes it different from block 4?
COPVs for starters.
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Prees kit for Bangabandhu-1:
http://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/files/bangabandhupresskit5918.pdf
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It has been mentioned that the 2nd stage is also block 5. What upgrades are on the 2nd stage that makes it different from block 4?
It should have a new Block 5 engine (changes to the turbopump).
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I think the webcast's a bit confuzzled. It's showing 'Live in 10 hours: 10 May 9:12' (British Summer Time). What's 12 hours between friends?
I wrote Chris B. about it. He says he has no idea why the time's, I love your word, confuzzled. Confused and fuzzy.
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Just to confirm, both stages are indeed block 5.
So will this include a thrust increase of M1D Vac to some 1000kN?
The thrust of M1DVac currently available on SpaceX's website seems not matching the sea-level version. In v1.1 era it is 11% more powerful (720kN vs. 800kN), but now only a 2% increase.
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Just to confirm, both stages are indeed block 5.
So will this include a thrust increase of M1D Vac to some 1000kN?
The thrust of M1DVac currently available on SpaceX's website seems not matching the sea-level version. In v1.1 era it is 11% more powerful (720kN vs. 800kN), but now only a 2% increase.
No, the MVac doesn't have a thrust increase with Block 5 AFAIK.
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Just to confirm, both stages are indeed block 5.
So will this include a thrust increase of M1D Vac to some 1000kN?
The thrust of M1DVac currently available on SpaceX's website seems not matching the sea-level version. In v1.1 era it is 11% more powerful (720kN vs. 800kN), but now only a 2% increase.
No, the MVac doesn't have a thrust increase with Block 5 AFAIK.
SpaceX Website currently shows Thrust in Vacuum (http://www.spacex.com/falcon9):
First stage operating under normal flight at 8,227kN
Second stage operating under normal flight at 934kN
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Just to confirm, both stages are indeed block 5.
So will this include a thrust increase of M1D Vac to some 1000kN?
The thrust of M1DVac currently available on SpaceX's website seems not matching the sea-level version. In v1.1 era it is 11% more powerful (720kN vs. 800kN), but now only a 2% increase.
No, the MVac doesn't have a thrust increase with Block 5 AFAIK.
The total S2 burn time of Bungabandgu-1 is 18sec (Or 4.5%)shorter than that of Koreasat-5A, which should have a similar throttle profile.
Can this indicate a thrust upgrade?
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Just to confirm, both stages are indeed block 5.
So will this include a thrust increase of M1D Vac to some 1000kN?
The thrust of M1DVac currently available on SpaceX's website seems not matching the sea-level version. In v1.1 era it is 11% more powerful (720kN vs. 800kN), but now only a 2% increase.
No, the MVac doesn't have a thrust increase with Block 5 AFAIK.
The total S2 burn time of Bungabandgu-1 is 18sec (Or 4.5%)shorter than that of Koreasat-5A, which should have a similar throttle profile.
Can this indicate a thrust upgrade?
Or a larger kick from the first stage, which has been upgraded
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(Snip)
A Falcon 9 rocket will deliver Bangabandhu Satellite-1 to a geostationary transfer orbit (GTO).
Does anybody know what the GTO Insertion will be? Regular GTO-1800, GTO-1500, Super synchronous GTO, I would imagine with this sat weighing 3500 kg Block V could do GTO-1500 and still do droneship landing with out dicey landing.
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Are my eyes deceiving me, or does the Falcon look a shade grayer compared to what we've seen in the past? It looks darker in hue than the TEL, at least to me.
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I thought they were planning to use a new more robust paintjob on B5, so maybe it's a tad darker due to that (if not just an illusion)?
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Does anybody know what the GTO Insertion will be? Regular GTO-1800, GTO-1500, Super synchronous GTO, I would imagine with this sat weighing 3500 kg Block V could do GTO-1500 and still do droneship landing with out dicey landing.
KoreaSat was about the same mass, and used a 1:07 second stage burn, from parking orbit, to get to a super-synchronous orbit with about 1617 m/s to go.
This launch has the second stage burn listed at 0:59, or 8 seconds shorter. At the end of the burn, it's accelerating at about 5G, so that would be 400 m/s less, (which translates to something like 260 m/s difference in the to-go figure).
So I think there are two possibilities - second stage performance is largely unchanged, and this is GTO-1800, or second stage performance is higher, and the target is super-synchronous.
My vote would be unchanged performance and GTO-1800. GTO injection is not fighting gravity losses, so higher thrust is not very helpful. However, reliability is super critical, with only one engine. Therefore I'd suspect they used the Block 5 improvements to increase the margin on the second stage, not the performance.
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Are my eyes deceiving me, or does the Falcon look a shade grayer compared to what we've seen in the past? It looks darker in hue than the TEL, at least to me.
Looks more like a camera exposure differences.
Anyway - as others have noted, it is amusing how the F9 now looks like the first fit-test F9 (not flight ready) that was erected on pad 40 nine years ago. :)
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Man, that original version sure does look short and stubby now doesn't it?
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Man, that original version sure does look short and stubby now doesn't it?
Yeah, there's something majestic about the highly slim and stretched F9.
Every time I see a Atlas or Delta launch, they seem so short and fat.
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Here is a comparison: (not exact but eye-balled)
:)
B5 image from update thread, source: https://twitter.com/Craig_VG/status/994555906280116225
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WESTERN NORTH ATLANTIC.
FLORIDA.
1. HAZARDOUS OPERATIONS, ROCKET LAUNCHING
102007Z TO 102314Z MAY, ALTERNATE
112009Z TO 112313Z MAY IN AREAS BOUND BY:
A. 28-39N 080-39W, 28-40N 080-37W,
28-40N 080-00W, 28-37N 079-45W,
28-35N 079-45W, 28-33N 079-48W,
28-32N 080-08W, 28-33N 080-37W.
B. 28-34N 076-00W, 28-36N 072-14W,
28-29N 071-50W, 27-55N 071-50W,
27-45N 072-35W, 28-20N 076-00W..
2. CANCEL THIS MSG 120013Z MAY 18.//
Authority: EASTERN RANGE 072001Z MAY 18.
Date: 072145Z MAY 18
Cancel: 12001300 May 18
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So we're looking at stage-2 second burn well into Earth shadow, so little chance of illuminated plume visibility from surface [or on-orbit] observers?
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Removed posts from the Update thread about a well-known replay-as-live Youtube channel; now it showed a previous Falcon 9 launch feed as live. Please take note to verify the credibility of the stream links!
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I just noticed in the up-close shots that it looks like they're beginning to build the "in-between" level on the FSS where the CAA will be. It's the second level down from the top, there's already a beam in place there.
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I just noticed in the up-close shots that it looks like they're beginning to build the "in-between" level on the FSS where the CAA will be. It's the second level down from the top, there's already a beam in place there.
Yep, looks like that beam is new. From reference photos I have, it must have been installed between 2018-04-07 and 2018-05-04.
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Help me out here: Elon said that they will build 30 to 50 additional boosters and that there will be another 300 F9 launches. That would mean only 10 launches per booster. What about 10 launches, inspection and another 10 launches?
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Help me out here: Elon said that they will build 30 to 50 additional boosters and that there will be another 300 F9 launches. That would mean only 10 launches per booster. What about 10 launches, inspection and another 10 launches?
Some of the launches might be expendable, maybee.
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FH as well.
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Would be very interested in the audio of the Musk press conference, if anybody recorded it.
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Help me out here: Elon said that they will build 30 to 50 additional boosters and that there will be another 300 F9 launches. That would mean only 10 launches per booster. What about 10 launches, inspection and another 10 launches?
Some of the launches might be expendable, maybee.
What i wonder is where are they going to put 30-50 F9s? they only have 3 pads, soon 4. What's the point of 24 hr turn around if you have 10 other rockets ready to launch?
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Help me out here: Elon said that they will build 30 to 50 additional boosters and that there will be another 300 F9 launches. That would mean only 10 launches per booster. What about 10 launches, inspection and another 10 launches?
Some of the launches might be expendable, maybee.
And some customers may insist on a new booster.
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I just noticed in the up-close shots that it looks like they're beginning to build the "in-between" level on the FSS where the CAA will be. It's the second level down from the top, there's already a beam in place there.
Yep, looks like that beam is new. From reference photos I have, it must have been installed between 2018-04-07 and 2018-05-04.
Also, that platform sticking out to the side is new.
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Help me out here: Elon said that they will build 30 to 50 additional boosters and that there will be another 300 F9 launches. That would mean only 10 launches per booster. What about 10 launches, inspection and another 10 launches?
Some of the launches might be expendable, maybee.
What i wonder is where are they going to put 30-50 F9s? they only have 3 pads, soon 4. What's the point of 24 hr turn around if you have 10 other rockets ready to launch?
The 30 to 50 B5 cores is a fall back plan to deploy the Starlink Constellation in case the BFR got delay.
Storing them is not a big issue. SX got all that unused crawlway to put up some core storage sheds.
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Help me out here: Elon said that they will build 30 to 50 additional boosters and that there will be another 300 F9 launches. That would mean only 10 launches per booster. What about 10 launches, inspection and another 10 launches?
Some of the launches might be expendable, maybee.
What i wonder is where are they going to put 30-50 F9s? they only have 3 pads, soon 4. What's the point of 24 hr turn around if you have 10 other rockets ready to launch?
He said one Booster may have 10 launches by next year. So two or three boosters per pad makes 6 - 10 in active fleet and a few more in FH integration, spread out over a few years.
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Help me out here: Elon said that they will build 30 to 50 additional boosters and that there will be another 300 F9 launches. That would mean only 10 launches per booster. What about 10 launches, inspection and another 10 launches?
Some of the launches might be expendable, maybee.
And some customers may insist on a new booster.
In principle, 3 copies of F9 would be enough for the 300 launches. However, only time will tell, whether a stage lasts for 100 launches in reality. They cannot just produce 3 stages and shut down the production line. Moreover, they will start the no-inspection fast turnaround operation only next year. Initially, a launched stage will not be available to the next launch. Therefore they will have to use a new stage often even if customers would be happy with the flight-proved ones.
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What's this about a 'thermal protection felt' as opposed to 'cork' as mentioned in webcast? Anyone with insights on this?
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What i wonder is where are they going to put 30-50 F9s? they only have 3 pads, soon 4. What's the point of 24 hr turn around if you have 10 other rockets ready to launch?
We're drifting here -- but the point is minimizing total operations and touch time required to recycle the booster; however much of that you're doing, you have to pay for it.
(KSC range safety is trying to ramp up to a capacity of 48 launches per year -- an average rate of less than one a week -- and they aren't there yet. And their private site, at Boca Chica, is currently licensed for only another 12 launches per year. So they can't be planning to launch Block 5 daily regardless; it's just that the timing constraints are no longer coming from the rocket itself.)
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/03/air-force-reveals-48-launches-year-cape/
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Looks like a dismal old evening out at the landing barge.
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Very interesting - constant thrust of 190klb all the way up rather than constant chamber pressure.
Commentator says first stage Merlins will be throttled to maintain 190,000 lbs of thrust as the atmospheric pressure decreases with altitude.
This seems like half an explanation. Why would that help?
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Countdown stopped
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About just after entering startup mode.
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UGH!
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Given that Falcon 9 Block 5 is an entirely new model, I knew that the countdown would be stopped this late in the count.
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Very interesting - constant thrust of 190klb all the way up rather than constant chamber pressure.
Commentator says first stage Merlins will be throttled to maintain 190,000 lbs of thrust as the atmospheric pressure decreases with altitude.
This seems like half an explanation. Why would that help?
My guess - to reduce the g-loads on the vehicle. The acceleration will be already increasing due to all the fuel that has been burnt no longer weighting the rocket down and engines increasing thrust will only add to that. I guess on some missions it might not be a problem but on some (crewed missions, more sensitive satellites) it could be useful.
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Windows closes in about 30min so i fear that is it for today.
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So, the SpaceX down the side of the first stage is not iced over. Is there a coating or something they could use to keep it from frosting over? (I don't know what a superhydrophobic coating would do on the outside of a subcooled LOX tank.)
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Note the SpaceX down the side of S1 is not obscured by frost.
edit: beat me to it...
So, the SpaceX down the side of the first stage is not iced over. Is there a coating or something they could use to keep it from frosting over? (I don't know what a superhydrophobic coating would do on the outside of a subcooled LOX tank.)
Might be a bit more than that. Some chatter in earlier threads as to whether there is additional thermal control (beyond superficial). My guess is there is something more than skin deep contributing.
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It was interesting to see the Rainbirds come on for a little bit after the abort. Possibly part of the abort process?
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Big vent - depressurizing the tanks maybe?
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Note the SpaceX down the side of S1 is not obscured by frost.
edit: beat me to it...
So, the SpaceX down the side of the first stage is not iced over. Is there a coating or something they could use to keep it from frosting over? (I don't know what a superhydrophobic coating would do on the outside of a subcooled LOX tank.)
Might be a bit more than that. Some chatter in earlier threads as to whether there is additional thermal control (beyond superficial). My guess is there is something more than skin deep contributing.
Note that now with more extensive venting (down from above) we are now seeing more frosting-obscuring.
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I have to wonder if they have already determined the reason, but they have until the very end of the window to resume so, they cross the i's and dot the t's.
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Did he say "review reason why telemerty loss?"
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Note that now with more extensive venting (down from above) we are now seeing more frosting-obscuring.
Maybe the less frosting was due to the faster LOX load, and given enough time it frosts over just as much as before?
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Might be a bit more than that. Some chatter in earlier threads as to whether there is additional thermal control (beyond superficial). My guess is there is something more than skin deep contributing.
A frost-resistant coating seems like it would likely be easy enough, and I don' t imagine active frost prevention would be desirable (since it would increase propellant heating). Whatever it is, it's only frost-resistant, as this long hold has given it sufficient time to get pretty icy. Worked well through the original cryogen-loading-to-launch span, at least.
Maybe the less frosting was due to the faster LOX load, and given enough time it frosts over just as much as before?
The "SpaceX" was on a distinctly different-looking patch, even early in LOX loading. It appeared that the stage overall was icing as usual, but that a rectangle was treated somehow.
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It was interesting to see the Rainbirds come on for a little bit after the abort. Possibly part of the abort process?
No. The pad water deluge system begins to activate at T-1 minute as part of prelaunch procedure. Those rainbirds come on fully at around T-10 seconds.
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Might be a bit more than that. Some chatter in earlier threads as to whether there is additional thermal control (beyond superficial). My guess is there is something more than skin deep contributing.
A frost-resistant coating seems like it would likely be easy enough, and I don' t imagine active frost prevention would be desirable (since it would increase propellant heating). Whatever it is, it's only frost-resistant, as this long hold has given it sufficient time to get pretty icy. Worked well through the original cryogen-loading-to-launch span, at least.
Maybe the less frosting was due to the faster LOX load, and given enough time it frosts over just as much as before?
The "SpaceX" was on a distinctly different-looking patch, even early in LOX loading. It appeared that the stage overall was icing as usual, but that a rectangle was treated somehow.
I didn't notice this maybe because my screen and resolution is too small. Could you grab a screen of what you're referring to and share it here?
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If I remember right, when SpaceX went to subcooled LOX, temperature issues meant they were basically committed to a window of a few seconds (basically, no chance for a hold, so a hold would be a scrubd). But that does not appear to be the case today - they appear to at least have the capability to hold.
And I too am intrigued by the lack of frost. There should be plenty over the LOX tank. My guess is Clayjar's guess is right, some sort of coating.
And dang, a scrub!
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If I remember right, when SpaceX went to subcooled LOX, temperature issues meant they were basically committed to a window of a few seconds (basically, no chance for a hold, so a hold would be a scrubd). But that does not appear to be the case today - they appear to at least have the capability to hold.
And I too am intrigued by the lack of frost. There should be plenty over the LOX tank. My guess is Clayjar's guess is right, some sort of coating.
And dang, a scrub!
One thing to keep in mind is that may have been true at the time (although I think it was speculation), but 39A has at least the capacity to fill a FH and as such should be able to keep subcooled props topped off considerably longer.
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If I remember right, when SpaceX went to subcooled LOX, temperature issues meant they were basically committed to a window of a few seconds (basically, no chance for a hold, so a hold would be a scrubd). But that does not appear to be the case today - they appear to at least have the capability to hold.
And I too am intrigued by the lack of frost. There should be plenty over the LOX tank. My guess is Clayjar's guess is right, some sort of coating.
And dang, a scrub!
One thing to keep in mind is that may have been true at the time (although I think it was speculation), but 39A has at least the capacity to fill a FH and as such should be able to keep subcooled props topped off considerably longer.
I think it's not so much keeping the tanks FULL of LOX, but it must also be COLD LOX. The LOX that was loaded 45 minutes ago has warmed (and expanded) so it is no longer densified, even if the tank is completely full of liquid LOX.
Edit: moved my reply out of the quote. I'm a newb.
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Late abort brings back memories of early F9 launches! When was the last one?
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Late abort brings back memories of early F9 launches! When was the last one?
NROL-76 was aborted at T-52 seconds due to a first stage LOX sensor issue.
Intelsat 35e was aborted at T-9 seconds twice in a row due to GNC and ground computer problems.
SpaceX CRS-10 was aborted at T-13 seconds due to a Stage 2 TVC actuator issue.
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Very interesting - constant thrust of 190klb all the way up rather than constant chamber pressure.
Commentator says first stage Merlins will be throttled to maintain 190,000 lbs of thrust as the atmospheric pressure decreases with altitude.
This seems like half an explanation. Why would that help?
My guess - to reduce the g-loads on the vehicle. The acceleration will be already increasing due to all the fuel that has been burnt no longer weighting the rocket down and engines increasing thrust will only add to that. I guess on some missions it might not be a problem but on some (crewed missions, more sensitive satellites) it could be useful.
I wonder if this is some side effect of human rating? To meet NASA specs, they need 40% margin on all parts at all times. Perhaps the rocket has this margin at sea level, but margins would drop to less than 40% if they allowed the natural thrust growth with higher altitude. So they use constant thrust to stay at 40% margin.
The reason I suggest this is that constant thrust should have more gravity loss, and hence would normally be avoided.
This also explains why the first stage burn times are just a little shorter, rather than a lot shorter as you would expect, given higher thrust and the same tanks.
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If I remember right, when SpaceX went to subcooled LOX, temperature issues meant they were basically committed to a window of a few seconds (basically, no chance for a hold, so a hold would be a scrubd). But that does not appear to be the case today - they appear to at least have the capability to hold.
And I too am intrigued by the lack of frost. There should be plenty over the LOX tank. My guess is Clayjar's guess is right, some sort of coating.
And dang, a scrub!
SES-9 was the first with subcooled LOX and they had multiple holds after loading including a potential second attempt after an abort post engine ignition. I do believe that might also have been the case in the early launches with subcooling. They might have gone later to "once we load LOX, we go or we scrub", but that wasn't the initial procedure.
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SES-9 was the first with subcooled LOX and they had multiple holds after loading including a potential second attempt after an abort post engine ignition. I do believe that might also have been the case in the early launches with subcooling. They might have gone later to "once we load LOX, we go or we scrub", but that wasn't the initial procedure.
Actually, Orbcomm-OG2 F2 (the first ever landing of a Falcon 9 booster) was the first with subcooled LOX.
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So, the SpaceX down the side of the first stage is not iced over. Is there a coating or something they could use to keep it from frosting over? (I don't know what a superhydrophobic coating would do on the outside of a subcooled LOX tank.)
No, it's much simpler - the SpaceX logo is now entirely on the RP-1 tank. So the LOX tank can, and still does, frost over and not obscure the logo.
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I didn't notice this maybe because my screen and resolution is too small. Could you grab a screen of what you're referring to and share it here?
I've attached an unaltered screenshot from a couple minutes before launch. The area of the SpaceX logo is clearly different than the surrounding area. If you use Photoshop to alter the exposure curve, you can easily bring up the contrast there, but I figured it would be better to leave it as is so that I wasn't piling compression on enhancement on compression, ad nauseum.
So, the SpaceX down the side of the first stage is not iced over. Is there a coating or something they could use to keep it from frosting over? (I don't know what a superhydrophobic coating would do on the outside of a subcooled LOX tank.)
No, it's much simpler - the SpaceX logo is now entirely on the RP-1 tank. So the LOX tank can, and still does, frost over and not obscure the logo.
The LOX is on top, is it not? They moved the SpaceX, but they moved it from the part of the first stage that is RP-1 up to the middle, so naturally, it should frost over more. (Post-landing visibility being one assumption for why it was moved -- the LOX section being less sooty once you've landed once.) Also, you can clearly see that the area around the SpaceX is different than the surrounding area at the same level.
Of course, since I don't have up-close detail of the Falcon 9 Block 5 as it's icing over, I can't eliminate the null hypothesis, i.e. that the SpaceX logo may ice over just as much as its surroundings but just look a bit different due to how they put the SpaceX logo on there or something they did to it pre-launch (e.g. after static fire cleaning, or whatever).
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NROL-76 was aborted at T-52 seconds due to a first stage LOX sensor issue.
Intelsat 35e was aborted at T-9 seconds twice in a row due to GNC and ground computer problems.
SpaceX CRS-10 was aborted at T-13 seconds due to a Stage 2 TVC actuator issue.
How about aborts after ignition? There was F9 Flight 1* and COTS-2, and I seem to recall at least one other time.
(*I hadn't paid attention to SpaceX before that. They had an ignition abort and turned around and launched successfully the same day. I had never heard of that ever happening before. That was when I started taking SpaceX seriously.
I watched the Gemini 6 ignition abort live, and I know it happened a few times with the Shuttle, but in none of those cases was there another launch attempt the same day.
I realize I'm veering off-topic, but has that ever happened with any other rocket? Feel free to point me to the proper thread.)
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Just to confirm, both stages are indeed block 5.
So will this include a thrust increase of M1D Vac to some 1000kN?
The thrust of M1DVac currently available on SpaceX's website seems not matching the sea-level version. In v1.1 era it is 11% more powerful (720kN vs. 800kN), but now only a 2% increase.
No, the MVac doesn't have a thrust increase with Block 5 AFAIK.
Ok, I take that back. Musk said today that the MVac increased to 220 klbf (979 kN).
https://youtu.be/KCNyCVuN4aM
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NROL-76 was aborted at T-52 seconds due to a first stage LOX sensor issue.
Intelsat 35e was aborted at T-9 seconds twice in a row due to GNC and ground computer problems.
SpaceX CRS-10 was aborted at T-13 seconds due to a Stage 2 TVC actuator issue.
How about aborts after ignition? There was F9 Flight 1* and COTS-2, and I seem to recall at least one other time.
(*I hadn't paid attention to SpaceX before that. They had an ignition abort and turned around and launched successfully the same day. I had never heard of that ever happening before. That was when I started taking SpaceX seriously.
I watched the Gemini 6 ignition abort live, and I know it happened a few times with the Shuttle, but in none of those cases was there another launch attempt the same day.
I realize I'm veering off-topic, but has that ever happened with any other rocket? Feel free to point me to the proper thread.)
SES-9 aborted after ignition at least once
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SES-8 aborted after engine start on Thanksgiving 2013.
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On the conference call, I heard Musk say that thrust is reduced because of increasing vibration.
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SES-8 aborted after engine start on Thanksgiving 2013.
All of this is available in cartman's terrific SpaceX Launch Log (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=40544.msg1550541#msg1550541)
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How about aborts after ignition? There was F9 Flight 1* and COTS-2, and I seem to recall at least one other time.
...
I watched the Gemini 6 ignition abort live, and I know it happened a few times with the Shuttle, but in none of those cases was there another launch attempt the same day.
I realize I'm veering off-topic, but has that ever happened with any other rocket? Feel free to point me to the proper thread.)
If I remember correctly the SSMEs required inspection/maintenance if there was an abort after ignition. (Or maybe even if the clock stopped within the last 30 seconds).
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Why did they wait so late in the window to attempt the launch?
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Why did they wait so late in the window to attempt the launch?
My complete and utter guess is technical gremlins that SpaceX never told us publicly, or they might have monitored upper-level winds since they could've been RED at the start of the window.
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Why did they wait so late in the window to attempt the launch?
My complete and utter guess is technical gremlins that SpaceX never told us publicly, or they might have monitored upper-level winds since they could've been RED at the start of the window.
On the webcast, they said they were looking at the telemetry logs to determine the cause of the abort. ULW would not be telemetry. I seem to recall two consecutive aborts due to some GSE sensor being out of whack; so maybe it's just the wind again, swaying the rocket just past the threshold to trigger an abort.
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Why did they wait so late in the window to attempt the launch?
My complete and utter guess is technical gremlins that SpaceX never told us publicly, or they might have monitored upper-level winds since they could've been RED at the start of the window.
On the webcast, they said they were looking at the telemetry logs to determine the cause of the abort. ULW would not be telemetry. I seem to recall two consecutive aborts due to some GSE sensor being out of whack; so maybe it's just the wind again, swaying the rocket just past the threshold to trigger an abort.
He wasn't referring to the abort. He was referring to the decisions during the course of the day to push later into the window.
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I wonder if this is some side effect of human rating? To meet NASA specs, they need 40% margin on all parts at all times.
That is not a requirement.
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Elon’s press call earlier:
Transcript of the call:
https://gist.github.com/theinternetftw/5ba82bd5f4099934fa0556b9d09c123e
I just wanted to call out theinternetftw with extra thanks for providing this transcript. I listened to the telecon audio, AND then read the transcript, and really got a lot of detail out of the latter that I'd missed the first time through. And reading it, even with the finer detail, goes a little faster than listening to it. I'm sure you're using some speech-to-text software there but there's still a lot of human effort involved and I wanted to thank you for it, more than just clicking the little "like" button.
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I wonder if this is some side effect of human rating? To meet NASA specs, they need 40% margin on all parts at all times.
That is not a requirement.
The NASA requirement for human rating is that *structure* has to be designed with a factor of safety of 1.4 instead of the usual 1.25. I expect that's what Elon was referring to.
So all *structural* analysis must show that the main structural components of the vehicle (tanks, interstage, adapters, etc) have a 40% margin under worst-case conditions (eg at max Q).
Then there are other requirements such as two-fault tolerance to critical failure modes that drive all kinds of design decisions for non-structural components that aren't covered by the FS=1.4 requirement.
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Sky seems a lot clearer today 8)
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Sky seems a lot clearer today 8)
I agree. Yesterday's weather looked like it was more RED than GREEN regarding the commit criteria.
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Waiting is hard work...
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Webcast live!
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During the final minutes of the countdown, I'm going to keep a close eye on the second stage just in case an AMOS 6-type failure unexpectedly occurs.
I know they fixed the problems that caused that failure, but I'm still a bit worried.
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Didn't feel very confident about the Falcon Heavy launch, but for this one... I really feel supremely confident.
Go Block 5!
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50mph winds at 5miles
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Oh sweet, drone view of the launch!
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1.7 million pounds of thrust for the first time!
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Slick as glass! Beautiful First Stage flight... :)
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Cut off @8,100km/h think thats the highest first stge flight ?
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Love the second feed video showing the paths of both stages!
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The first stage rocketcam is a bit wobbly. It was shaking around with every bump of the cold gas thrusters.
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Falcon has landed!
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No fire on the legs. They didn't lie.
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1st stage looks VERY clean compared to Block 3/4 stages to my eye.
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The way the first stage EDL camera was shaking every time the RCS fired, I found myself wondering if it was loose in its mounting.
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Beautiful camera work around fairing deploy. First seeing the fairings detach and then quickly looking behind to see them swoosh by and disappear into the distance.
Best shot was of the first stage standing proud on "Of Course I still Love You", though.... :-)
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Landed. :)
The stage looks really clean, relative to previous landings. Looks like it just went on a short stroll...
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Love'd the view of the pusher system on stage sep ;D
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I was impressed by how very little ice fell off a liftoff... Looks either improved insulation or a more hydrophobic paint material - or both. (But perhaps this was also favorable weather with less humidity?)
And a super sweet drone view of the liftoff! 8) 8) 8)
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I wonder if the first stage camera succumbed to all the condensation that seemed to be building up on it.
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This is the first time Ti grid fins have been recovered from a GTO launch, correct? Not even a hint of ablation during or after the entry burn that I could see.
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I was impressed by how very little ice fell off a liftoff... Looks either improved insulation or a more hydrophobic paint material - or both. (But perhaps this was also favorable weather with less humidity?)
Elon stated this in the Q&A yesterday. I think.
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I wonder if the first stage camera succumbed to all the condensation that seemed to be building up on it.
The picture was rocking noticeably every time the RCS fired. It isn't impossible that the camera was loose inside its housing and, with the much greater vibrations of the entry burn, took damage. Maybe the data cabling shook loose or something.
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I was impressed by how very little ice fell off a liftoff... Looks either improved insulation or a more hydrophobic paint material - or both. (But perhaps this was also favorable weather with less humidity?)
Elon stated this in the Q&A yesterday. I think.
Yes, for the black material. I was mostly referring to the white tank surface.
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This is the first time Ti grid fins have been recovered from a GTO launch, correct? Not even a hint of ablation during or after the entry burn that I could see.
The Ti grid fins don't need the SPAM coating like the aluminum did, so there's nothing to ablate.
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Maybe it was the lighting, but it seemed like the on-board cameras were providing much-better-than-usual video quality. New cams to go with Block 5, maybe? Loved the drone view of the launch as well. And, as noted above, they probably need to tighten the bracket holding the 1st stage camera. Otherwise, everything looked great so far.
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Maybe it was the lighting, but it seemed like the on-board cameras were providing much-better-than-usual video quality. New cams to go with Block 5, maybe? Loved the drone view of the launch as well. And, as noted above, they probably need to tighten the bracket holding the 1st stage camera. Otherwise, everything looked great so far.
Good point. For some reason, I thought the Stage 1 aft-facing camera was about to fall off during reentry.
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I wonder if the first stage camera succumbed to all the condensation that seemed to be building up on it.
Consequence of the "semi-active" water cooling system?
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Some new camera views so far during this launch.
-Drone footage.
-Extended footage from behind the pusher system and from Stage 2 looking down in the interstage prior to separation.
-Footage from inside the interstage well after separation. Not just of Stage 2 igniting and flying away, but after the start of stage 1 reorientation.
-More views looking up at the payload and forward during Stage 2 burn. Usually we only see those during fairing sep and the rest of the time we're looking back at the engine/nozzle.
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Falcon 9 Block 5 first launch & landing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBEH4t05AvM
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I wonder if the first stage camera succumbed to all the condensation that seemed to be building up on it.
The picture was rocking noticeably every time the RCS fired. It isn't impossible that the camera was loose inside its housing and, with the much greater vibrations of the entry burn, took damage. Maybe the data cabling shook loose or something.
Good point. I am sure that’s something the engineers will be looking into post flight.
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Elon’s press call earlier:
Transcript of the call:
https://gist.github.com/theinternetftw/5ba82bd5f4099934fa0556b9d09c123e
I just wanted to call out theinternetftw with extra thanks for providing this transcript. I listened to the telecon audio, AND then read the transcript, and really got a lot of detail out of the latter that I'd missed the first time through. And reading it, even with the finer detail, goes a little faster than listening to it. I'm sure you're using some speech-to-text software there but there's still a lot of human effort involved and I wanted to thank you for it, more than just clicking the little "like" button.
There's a LOT of very interesting things in there.
Nice transcript.
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The shaking of on-board cameras seems excessive to me. Even the 2nd stage cameras started shaking after staging. I hope it's just the camera mounts became loose, not the rocket body having vibration problems.
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Can I ask why Bangladesh is having to lease an orbital slot from Russia for this satellite?
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Camera shake may or may not be related to the vibration concern Elon mentioned in the call, saying that engine chamber pressures would be reduced as engine burns progressed, for reasons related to vibration.
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Wauw, that was really a quite ...unique video from the Bangladeshi side.... Interesting insight into how that country works.
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I was impressed by how very little ice fell off a liftoff... Looks either improved insulation or a more hydrophobic paint material - or both. (But perhaps this was also favorable weather with less humidity?)
Elon stated this in the Q&A yesterday. I think.
The paint is not hydrophobic, the new black TPS is.
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Did anyone else notice that immediately post-entry burn, the first stage camera view looked perfectly clear until the condensation started just before the video signal was lost?
In previous launches, the entry burn would leave the camera lens or housing window covered in soot which would leave the view somewhat obscured during landing.
On this launch, the soot seemed to be accumulating on the glass during the reentry burn, but then immediately afterwards, as soon as the burn ended, the view was completely clear.
Perhaps all or part of the camera housing got blown away? Might that have something to do with the condensation and vibration?
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Is there a new expansion nozzle material? I've never seen it radiate purple like that before!
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Is there a new expansion nozzle material? I've never seen it radiate purple like that before!
It seemed to me they had new cameras all around. The color balance was different, and they seemed to vibrate more than usual.
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Wauw, that was really a quite ...unique video from the Bangladeshi side.... Interesting insight into how that country works.
I like their ground station very modern looking.
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Is there a new expansion nozzle material? I've never seen it radiate purple like that before!
Just an artifact of the new cameras, which they may want to correct. But they could also be tweaked on purpose to show more infrared.
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I noticed immediatly after the landing burn cut off a rcs valve pulsed the longest pulse I’ve ever seen (pulsing to screen left). That was cool. Such a great launch from the block 5. Can’t wait to see the Dragon 2 on top with crew.
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Bangabandhu-1 satellite deployed!
Joy Bangla! Congrats SpaceX!
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Is there a new expansion nozzle material? I've never seen it radiate purple like that before!
That's what it looks like when you shoot digital without an IR filter. (Usually there's one on the sensor itself, but on some cameras like Canon's astronomy models, it's left off and you have to use an external IR filter or it looks like that.)
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Wauw, that was really a quite ...unique video from the Bangladeshi side.... Interesting insight into how that country works.
Go back and watch the address from the Turkmensat launch from a couple years ago.
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Is the second stage deorbiting on this mission?
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Looks like Elon himself was on hand to supervise
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Starting from T+7:10, something came loose. Looks like a ring or a wire. This was just prior to LOS.
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Is the second stage deorbiting on this mission?
In my opinion, Stage 2 will stay in this GTO.
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Starting from T+7:10, something came loose. Looks like a ring or a wire. This was just prior to LOS.
No, that was just what a drop of condensation rolling across the lens shield looks like from a few millimetres away!
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Looks like Elon himself was on hand to supervise
Wow, he was tweeting about Tesla from mission control 2 minutes before launch :o
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/995033832796577792
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Hmmm. They called out good orbit during the broadcast, but the dashboard display was showing less than 35,000km/h for speed. IIRC, for their GTO launches it is usually around 36,000km/h or even above. So, maybe this GTO is going to be closer to GEO-1800m/s end of GTOs or even an undershoot? Perigee might be a bit higher than usual though, so that might be affecting it.
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Not a super-synchronous GTO. It cut off at 34832 k/hr = 9676 m/s. Add in about 400 m/s (Earth rotation) to get 10076 m/s. compared to the normal GTO speed at this altitude of 10148 m/s. Assuming this is due to inclination reduction, the change in inclination would be about cos-1(10076/10148), or about 6.5 degrees.
So I'd expect a GTO orbit something like 300x36000, inclination 21o. If so about 1670 m/s to GEO.
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Congratulations to SpaceX and Bangladesh for the successful launch!
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Maybe it was the lighting, but it seemed like the on-board cameras were providing much-better-than-usual video quality. New cams to go with Block 5, maybe? Loved the drone view of the launch as well. And, as noted above, they probably need to tighten the bracket holding the 1st stage camera. Otherwise, everything looked great so far.
I had exactly opposite impression. Quality of camera on stage and barge was abysmal.
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Starting from T+7:10, something came loose. Looks like a ring or a wire. This was just prior to LOS.
No, that was just what a drop of condensation rolling across the lens shield looks like from a few millimetres away!
That's what the commentator suggested, using prepared remarks, but I think we will find out that it was indeed a damaged camera, as discussed above.
It's like the Falcon Heavy launch camera mixup. The commentator was pointing out how the cameras from the two returning boosters were showing what looked like identical views, but he assured us that it was actually two different cameras from two different rockets. But veterans here could clearly see that it was precisely the same video feed -- the RCS cold gas bursts wouldn't be THAT synchronized. And this was proven when the two booster cameras seeme dot show the two boosters returning to the same LZ pad :) As it turned out, SpaceX screwed up the video routing during the live event, and it WAS the same camera shown twice. Don't pay too much attention to the live commentary, especially if you've been here a while and already know all of the basic ways that the video feeds can get degraded. They're just providing the "usual" reason off a script.
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Congratulations SpaceX. I feel like it was yesterday when i saw the first F9 fly. It's been 8 years since that day.
Great thing they recovered the booster too. I bet NASA is going to have a lot of interest in seeing how the different components performed (specially the COPV and the turbo blades).
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Congratulations SpaceX and Bangladesh! :)
We are now in the "block 5 era".
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Looks like less soot on the RP-1 tank compared with previous landings. Maybe a consequence of a paint change, or the passive water cooling system.
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Not a super-synchronous GTO. It cut off at 34832 k/hr = 9676 m/s. Add in about 400 m/s (Earth rotation) to get 10076 m/s. compared to the normal GTO speed at this altitude of 10148 m/s. Assuming this is due to inclination reduction, the change in inclination would be about cos-1(10076/10148), or about 6.5 degrees.
So I'd expect a GTO orbit something like 300x36000, inclination 21o. If so about 1670 m/s to GEO.
Orbit parameters according to new space-track TLE
2018-05-11 21:52:04.21 UTC - 308.49/35549.15km/19.3139°
Physics works again! It's very reliable...
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Maybe it was the lighting, but it seemed like the on-board cameras were providing much-better-than-usual video quality. New cams to go with Block 5, maybe? Loved the drone view of the launch as well. And, as noted above, they probably need to tighten the bracket holding the 1st stage camera. Otherwise, everything looked great so far.
I had exactly opposite impression. Quality of camera on stage and barge was abysmal.
Similar impression as well. My thoughts are that these were SD cameras instead of HD cameras (maybe to get around the NOAA restrictions my opinion). Was not impressed at all at the clarity and video transmission. I'm sure they will improve.
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Can I ask why Bangladesh is having to lease an orbital slot from Russia for this satellite?
Bumping this question so it doesn't get lost in the "old pages" of this thread.
Speculation: Did the ITU assign them a slot, and they lost it through non-use? Or they leased said slot in the past to another entity?
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Congratulations to all parties involved on a great launch and the evolution of the Falcon 9 launch system!
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Maybe it was the lighting, but it seemed like the on-board cameras were providing much-better-than-usual video quality. New cams to go with Block 5, maybe? Loved the drone view of the launch as well. And, as noted above, they probably need to tighten the bracket holding the 1st stage camera. Otherwise, everything looked great so far.
I had exactly opposite impression. Quality of camera on stage and barge was abysmal.
Similar impression as well. My thoughts are that these were SD cameras instead of HD cameras (maybe to get around the NOAA restrictions my opinion). Was not impressed at all at the clarity and video transmission. I'm sure they will improve.
They never were HD in the first place. What has changed is apparently they switched from CCD based to CMOS based cameras which show that (annoying) rolling shutter effect, also apparently don't have an IR filter judging by the prolonged MVac glow after shutdown and they appear to be even more wide-angle lens than before.
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I'm presuming the illumination at PL sep was natural sunlight. So the burn should have made a spectacular plume in the evening sky over the South Atlantic. Does anybody have approx. lat/long of the ground track at start and stop of the GTO burn?
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Was it only me or did the cameras/first stage shake more than in previous launches whenever the cold gas thrusters fired. Maybe they got an upgrade too?
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That thing jumped off the pad noticeably faster than previous F9s, I didn't expect the thrust increase to be that noticeable especially when taking into consideration that more LOX mass was loaded than before and the overall vehicle structure is likely heavier. Looked more like the inaugural FH than single stick launches.
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That thing jumped off the pad noticeably faster than previous F9s, I didn't expect the thrust increase to be that noticeable especially when taking into consideration that more LOX mass was loaded than before and the overall vehicle structure is likely heavier.
Do we have Thrust/Weight at lift-off ratios for the various versions of Falcon 9?
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I'm presuming the illumination at PL sep was natural sunlight. So the burn should have made a spectacular plume in the evening sky over the South Atlantic. Does anybody have approx. lat/long of the ground track at start and stop of the GTO burn?
No, it was illuminated from the stage, as far as I can tell. Both the downfacing and upfacing stage 2 cameras now have built in lights.
Note in the video how there is no sunlight on the MVac, but in the shot of the satellite departing the light is from below - where the MVac should in that case have been seen some illumination. No, it was a strong light, it seems.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPq9oV9azyQ
And the SpaceX GTO burns are always made over the same spot... where the ground track for the most optimal launch from KSC crosses the equator, over the coast of Gabon.
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Congratulations to SpaceX & Bangladesh!
Thank you to all at NASASpaceFlight for doing your thing so well!
This all makes me very happy! :-)
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Maybe it was the lighting, but it seemed like the on-board cameras were providing much-better-than-usual video quality. New cams to go with Block 5, maybe? Loved the drone view of the launch as well. And, as noted above, they probably need to tighten the bracket holding the 1st stage camera. Otherwise, everything looked great so far.
I had exactly opposite impression. Quality of camera on stage and barge was abysmal.
Similar impression as well. My thoughts are that these were SD cameras instead of HD cameras (maybe to get around the NOAA restrictions my opinion). Was not impressed at all at the clarity and video transmission. I'm sure they will improve.
NOAA has nothing to do with Stage 1 cameras. They seemed to be having transmission problems.
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5 is Alive! Congrats SpaceX! 8)
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I'm presuming the illumination at PL sep was natural sunlight. So the burn should have made a spectacular plume in the evening sky over the South Atlantic. Does anybody have approx. lat/long of the ground track at start and stop of the GTO burn?
No, it was illuminated from the stage, as far as I can tell. Both the downfacing and upfacing stage 2 cameras now have built in lights.
Excellent insights, thank you. I've been collecting ground observations of Falcon 2nd stage pluming events to compare with the bizarre spinning double-plume from Zuma.
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I just rewatched the second stage cut off and if you notice, the purple coloring on the bell only really comes from one of the cameras. The other one has a much more pinkish view.
Maybe the vibrations shook the IR filter off one of the cameras?
Eta: watch from 46:01 on the SpaceX feed onwards to see what I mean
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What an amazing step forward again!
Not only for SpaceX and space tech, but also for the country of Bangladesh!
Now bring the rocket home, take it apart and hopefully confirm all would have been good for immediate reflight!
Then put it back together and return it to the active fleet.
Congratulations to all who have been working so hard to make this all possible!
Amazing work and so inspiring to see such progress being made every launch!
Keep up the good work!
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Congrats SpaceX!
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Was this a new procedure on the use of the rainbirds for Block 5?
It appears to me that, although the two sets of four rainbirds on each side of the rocket (in the launch webcast camera) began flowing a small volume of water at ~T-0:52, and the two end rainbirds came on at high volume at T-0:08,...
... all eight of the side rainbirds seem to have stayed at low-medium volume all the way through ignition and liftoff.
link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQEqKZ7CJlk?t=1060)
What do others recall from previous F9 launches at LC-39A?
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Congratulations SpaceX for the successful flight of the first Block 5, the human rated launcher that will fly astronauts into orbit, the launcher that is designed to be flown 10 times w/out major refurbishment. 9 years ago yesterday I was on the causeway watching STS-125 the shuttle Atlantis launch on the last Hubble servicing mission, from the same pad that the F9 Block 5 was launched on yesterday. And congratulations to Bangladesh for the successful orbiting of its first satellite, Bangabandhu-1, and its move into “developing country” status from LDC, it is moving up in the world.
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Just a point of interest - Grimes, Elon’s new friend - was in SpaceX Mission Control with him during the launch. I think she did the final countdown. My wife actually said, “hey, that’s not the usual voice” - and she was barely listening while reading emails on her phone...
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Just a point of interest - Grimes, Elon’s new friend - was in SpaceX Mission Control with him during the launch. I think she did the final countdown. My wife actually said, “hey, that’s not the usual voice” - and she was barely listening while reading emails on her phone...
The voice sounded an awful lot like the person who counted down the FH launch
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The voice sounded an awful lot like the person who counted down the FH launch
And several others.
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Can I ask why Bangladesh is having to lease an orbital slot from Russia for this satellite?
Spacenews answered this:
Bangladesh had orbital slots from the United Nation’s International Telecommunication Union that it considered too far from Bangladesh to ensure reliable satellite services. After years of seeking better orbital locations, the Bangladesh Telecommunications Regulatory Commission (BTRC) hired consulting firm Space Partnership International (SPI) of Bethesda, Maryland in 2012 to guide the nation in obtaining a better slot and through the acquisition of Bangabandhu-1. SPI helped BTRC secure an orbital slot closer to Bangladesh at 119.1 degrees east from the Russian company Intersputnik for $28 million.
http://spacenews.com/spacex-launches-bangladeshi-satellite-on-debut-block-5-falcon-9-mission/
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Looking at that video, it appears the water from the two closest rain birds(the ones that soak the TEL) has a reddish color.. could be rust but doesn't really look like it.. maybe they're mixing in some flame retardant? Looks kind of like what's used on Forest Fires.
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Looking at that video, it appears the water from the two closest rain birds(the ones that soak the TEL) has a reddish color.. could be rust but doesn't really look like it.. maybe they're mixing in some flame retardant? Looks kind of like what's used on Forest Fires.
It's sediment/dirt. The water suppression system sat unused since Falcon Heavy, more than three months ago.
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Looking at that video, it appears the water from the two closest rain birds(the ones that soak the TEL) has a reddish color.. could be rust but doesn't really look like it.. maybe they're mixing in some flame retardant? Looks kind of like what's used on Forest Fires.
It's sediment/dirt. The water suppression system sat unused since Falcon Heavy, more than three months ago.
Isn't it used for static fires?
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Was this a new procedure on the use of the rainbirds for Block 5?
It appears to me that, although the two sets of four rainbirds on each side of the rocket (in the launch webcast camera) began flowing a small volume of water at ~T-0:52, and the two end rainbirds came on at high volume at T-0:08,... all eight of the side rainbirds seem to have stayed at low-medium volume all the way through ignition and liftoff.
link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQEqKZ7CJlk?t=1060)
Yes, it was definitely noticeable. Perhaps, since the rainbird system was upgraded for Falcon Heavy, it does not need maximum volume for Falcon 9?
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New data on the rainbird question I asked a few posts above. Thanks for others of you weighing in on it.
This video from the update thread, I think, gives the answer.
UP CLOSE Pad camera views from the Bangabandhu Satellite 1 launch
AmericaSpace
Published on May 12, 2018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axF6sbdtchA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axF6sbdtchA?t=001)
The side rainbirds do stay at low volume during ignition and liftoff; then pickup to full/high volume only one to two seconds AFTER liftoff.
This seems quite new. Was it used on Falcon Heavy launch and we just did not notice it?
Seems they intentionally want to keep this water OFF of the new Block 5 engines during startup, etc.
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The side rainbirds do stay at low volume during ignition and liftoff; then pickup to full/high volume only one to two seconds AFTER liftoff.
This seems quite new. Was it used on Falcon Heavy launch and we just did not notice it?
Seems they intentionally want to keep this water OFF of the new Block 5 engines during startup, etc.
No, that's normal - at least for 39A - although they might have tweaked the timing of when the different flows start. The full flow might damage the rocket, so it is only turned on when the rocket has cleared the launch hold downs.
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Images from SpaceX, I believe by Ben Cooper (@LaunchPhoto on Twitter)
(https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/45522.0/1491547.jpg)
This is really a nice transsonic condensation ring around the stage. Perfect conditions for a "full scale test in the really large wind-tunnel above the florida coast" I am sure if needed they really wanted, they could verify their aerodynamic modeling of the rocket's ascent through the sound barrier by just looking where these form and how.
Then again, judging by SpaceX experience and how smooth these condensation clouds are, I'd assume the air flows just as predicted. But its still nice to have nature make this visible for everyone.
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Report from Perth about observing fuel dump from stage 2. https://www.facebook.com/groups/AustralianMeteorReports/permalink/851651691705477/?hc_location=ufi
compare with
http://satobs.org/seesat_ref/misc/zuma_vs_falcon9-stage2_clouds_plumes_overview.pdf
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Report from Perth about observing fuel dump from stage 2. https://www.facebook.com/groups/AustralianMeteorReports/permalink/851651691705477/?hc_location=ufi
compare with
http://satobs.org/seesat_ref/misc/zuma_vs_falcon9-stage2_clouds_plumes_overview.pdf
In the webcast, SpaceX mentioned that the 2nd stage was spun up to a rotation of 1.5' per second prior to spacecraft separation - would this small spin cause the 'Zuma' like spiral fuel dump that Grahame captured in his photos, or is it more likely that this spiral fuel dump pattern is standard behaviour when bleeding down the propellant lines and tanks?
Paul
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Some have missed this part during the live broadcast, so here is Michael Hammersley explaining the aborted launch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40RMy1JtVZU
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Here is the clarification of that 300 launches quote:
SpaceX will prob build 30 to 40 rocket cores for ~300 missions over 5 years. Then BFR takes over & Falcon retires. Goal of BFR is to enable anyone to move to moon, Mars & eventually outer planets.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/995462943079723008
Lots of wiggle room there for BFR arriving a bit late -- something like a factor of 10 more flights available from 'the fleet' than required. 300 flights in five years... hhhmmmmmm. Must include the constellation finally.
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Some have missed this part during the live broadcast, so here is Michael Hammersley explaining the aborted launch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40RMy1JtVZU
Initialize your variables!
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Some have missed this part during the live broadcast, so here is Michael Hammersley explaining the aborted launch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40RMy1JtVZU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40RMy1JtVZU)
Initialize your variables!
1] Even the hardware ones
2] Run an early pre-check routine before the 2-hour poll to catch these things
San Diego had a famous incident in 2012 where the pyro vendor for 4th of July ran the wrong program at the start of the show. Instead of the synced-to-music program, they ran a wiring continuity check. The diagnostic program was written with minimum timing delays, and should have been run only with shorting plugs at the far ends of the wiring runs instead of the actual mortar igniters. 7000 shells, 4 barges, 30 seconds.
Lesson: Make sure the pre-check routine follows the Hippocratic Oath and does no harm.
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Does anyone here have the first stage apogee for this flight?
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Does anyone here have the first stage apogee for this flight?
From the sim posted here: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42389.msg1821429#msg1821429 I get about 113kms.
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San Diego had a famous incident in 2012 where the pyro vendor for 4th of July ran the wrong program at the start of the show. Instead of the synced-to-music program, they ran a wiring continuity check. The diagnostic program was written with minimum timing delays, and should have been run only with shorting plugs at the far ends of the wiring runs instead of the actual mortar igniters. 7000 shells, 4 barges, 30 seconds.
Lesson: Make sure the pre-check routine follows the Hippocratic Oath and does no harm.
and here's what that looked like-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndVhgq1yHdA
yes it's OT but how can you have that description without a video!
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Did anyone else notice the overall poor quality of on board video? Lots of "jello" and the IR spectrum was excessive. and lots of camera movement on reentry.
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Did anyone else notice the overall poor quality of on board video? Lots of "jello" and the IR spectrum was excessive. and lots of camera movement on reentry.
If you look back in this thread I think you'll find other people did notice that.
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Thanks I had missed those. It reminds me of the early days of flying Quad Copters. before the "good" cameras came out. I sure hope that was an anomaly and not the "new standard"
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Consequence of move from CCD to CMOS sensors. Get used to it. (probably)
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Consequence of move from CCD to CMOS sensors. Get used to it. (probably)
Note that CMOS sensors use CCD's (which are really just arrays of diodes anyway IIRC), but generally include silicon on the die to get the data off rather than a separate chip.
The effect being seen is caused by using rolling shutters, and there are CMOS camera available that do not use the rolling shutter and will produce very good images - global shutter cameras. There are also cameras with fast read out that suffer less from rolling shutter - the faster it's done, the less the effect. Not sure why SpaceX have moved to a less capable system, seems odd. Perhaps they just don't need high quality video any more?
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Consequence of move from CCD to CMOS sensors. Get used to it. (probably)
CMOS with rolling shutter vs. CMOS with global shutter. Rolling shutter CMOS is cheaper... At least that's what my camera vendor claims to justify his premium.
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Consequence of move from CCD to CMOS sensors. Get used to it. (probably)
Note that CMOS sensors use CCD's (which are really just arrays of diodes anyway IIRC), but generally include silicon on the die to get the data off rather than a separate chip.
The effect being seen is caused by using rolling shutters, and there are CMOS camera available that do not use the rolling shutter and will produce very good images - global shutter cameras. There are also cameras with fast read out that suffer less from rolling shutter - the faster it's done, the less the effect. Not sure why SpaceX have moved to a less capable system, seems odd. Perhaps they just don't need high quality video any more?
Ehhh... It's a bit of an artefact of using "CMOS" as a colloquial term. Broadly:
CCD sensors (Charged Couple Devices) are 'photon buckets', capacitor arrays that get charged up as photons hit them. Voltage bars are then use to 'jump these charge buckets down the sensor row-by-row, then feed out that last row bucket-by-bucket into a single amplifier and digitiser.
CMOS sensors have an amplifier and digitiser for each pixel, next to the pixel on the sensor.
Because a CCD has only the voltage bars on the sensor itself, most of the surface area is dedicated to capturing photons. For CMOS, the actual photon capture area is squished in along with all the other circuitry, so the effective sensitivity is lower.
Either type of sensor can exhibit 'rolling shutter' (really rolling scan-out as often there will not be a shutter at all), CMOS just makes it more obvious then CCD because the rolling readout of a CCD occurs over a much shorter time (e.g. 95% of a frame spent capturing photons all at the same time, 5% spent shifting charges and reading out where the 'wrong' charge can build up in cells as they are moved about) while a CMOS sensor is limited by output bandwidth so captures AND reads the sensor a row at a time over the whole frame.
As for why the switch from CCD or global-shutter CMOS to rolling shutter CMOS? Possibly a combination of price for custom cameras (they probably want to re-use them too, so they may want to just stick in a camera they don't need to touch again rather than a cheap GoPro they need to swap out every mission) and savings on mass and power. The days of the video footage being diagnostic are probably over now Block 5 is the 'fixed' configuration and stages are regularly recovered, so not as much mass or money budget needs to be spent on a purely 'pretty pictures' component.
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The days of the video footage being diagnostic are probably over now Block 5 is the 'fixed' configuration and stages are regularly recovered, so not as much mass or money budget needs to be spent on a purely 'pretty pictures' component.
That makes no sense. We now can reuse boosters, so we will use cheaper and worse components? ;D No.
They might have other reasons for the switch, but that would not be it. Because as confidence in recovery has grown, they have started adding more expensive parts that they are confident they can get back. The titanium grid fins is a perfect example.
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The days of the video footage being diagnostic are probably over now Block 5 is the 'fixed' configuration and stages are regularly recovered, so not as much mass or money budget needs to be spent on a purely 'pretty pictures' component.
That makes no sense. We now can reuse boosters, so we will use cheaper and worse components? ;D No.
That's not what I said. If you can put on your existing COTS cameras but need to replace them after every launch because they can't handle the thermal cycling, they are 'worse' than custom cameras that have a lower picture quality but can be left in place for multiple re-uses. Extra effort put into higher picture quality would not provide value beyond shinier PR pictures, but effort put into longevity means another barrier to rapid re-use is removed.
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/unlurk :). Ive been using both cmos and ccd cameras on my UAV's for years for 1st person view flying... to me.. ccd cams have much better WDR (wide dynamic range) handling. CMOS have usually none. Though some in recent years have implemented a software solution which is ... mmm ok ish.
WDR brightens darker parts of the view and dulls off brighter parts of the scene. Space is VERY BLACK or very Bright so WDR is a GIVEN. IR filters which (dont seem to be fitted on the banga flight) produce greater better colours.. (SX may have done this on purpose looking for IR hot spots, on the S2 nozzle I can understand, but on the S1 ? )
/back to lurking ;D
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Either type of sensor can exhibit 'rolling shutter' (really rolling scan-out as often there will not be a shutter at all), CMOS just makes it more obvious then CCD because the rolling readout of a CCD occurs over a much shorter time (e.g. 95% of a frame spent capturing photons all at the same time, 5% spent shifting charges and reading out where the 'wrong' charge can build up in cells as they are moved about) while a CMOS sensor is limited by output bandwidth so captures AND reads the sensor a row at a time over the whole frame.
A small nit on that, Global shutters on CCD's are usually done with either interline or frame transfer masks, not rapid readout of the sensor. The charge for the entire chip is transferred under a light blocking mask and then read out. With an interline mask every other row is a mask and the charge for the whole frame gets shifted sideways one pixel then readout. This gives you a true snapshot and global shutter. Classic example is the Sony ICX-285AL, heavily used in the scientific and microscopy imaging (Though I am really loving new discontinued Sony ICX-825). Frame transfer involves one side of the sensor being under the mask and the charge being quickly transferred sideways under it. CMOS will work in a similar manner with a mask pattern that the charge is quickly transferred under. Not sure of the pattern Sony is using with it's new CMOS, but I believe they are burying the mask in the gate structure under the pixel.
Now the reason global shutter sensors cost more is it requires twice the silicon area of a rolling shutter (and with interline you also have micro lenses above each non masked row to increase the fill factor from 50% to closer to 100%).
We know return you to the usual discussions of SpaceX, Rockets, and how many Falcons can dance on the head of a barge.
*btw The writing is on the wall for CCD sensors, Sony (largest manufacture) has announced it will switch to CMOS over the next 5 years. Actually, Sony polled it's vendors, made a final prediction and built all the CCD's it will ever make back in 2016, it then stuck all in a wharehouse promising to have enough inventory to last through 2025. In 2016 it then decommissioned the CCD line (The floor space has been replaced with a new CMOS line). But the good news is my suppliers have promises from Sony that I will have the CCD's I use until 2025. For CCD's this just really leaves E2V, Hammatsu, On Semi (bought Kodak's line). CMOS, it is the future!!!