Europe vows to develop Falcon 9 like rocket.

[jstrotha0975]

This month, the European Commission revealed a new, three-year project to develop technologies needed for two proposed reusable launch vehicles. The commission provided €3 million to the German space agency, DLR, and five companies to, in the words of a news release about the project, "tackle the shortcoming of know-how in reusable rockets in Europe."

This new RETALT project's goals are pretty explicit about copying the retro-propulsive engine firing technique used by SpaceX to land its Falcon 9 rocket first stages back on land and on autonomous drone ships. The Falcon 9 rocket's ability to land and fly again is "currently dominating the global market," the European project states. "We are convinced that it is absolutely necessary to investigate Retro Propulsion Assisted Landing Technologies to make re-usability state-of-the-art in Europe."

Sourec: Ars Technica Eric Berger. https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/06/europe-says-spacex-dominating-launch-vows-to-develop-falcon-9-like-rocket/

[jpo234]

Project Website: https://www.retalt.eu/

[jpo234]

Doesn't seem to target actual hardware, just studies.

The objectives of this WP are the design of structural components, TPS and health monitoring instrumentation of both RETALT1 and RETALT2 configurations and manufacturing of test models and ground demonstrators.

These rockets will not really be launched; however, they will be used as the reference configurations for the investigations of the different technologies in the project. Aerodynamic wind tunnel experiments, numerical simulations and ground tests of several components will serve to verify the outcomes of the project.

"test models and ground demonstrators" is as far as it goes.

[Hauerg]

Where I stopped reading:
Page 1:
„These rockets will not be really launched.“

Only 📝 , 10 years late.
Maybe they can even prove that F9 booster recovery might work.
🥴

[Coastal Ron]

The only way we'll be able to move humanity out into space is if there are LOTS of launch reusable launch systems, so I see this initiative as a good thing. In fact I think Elon Musk (and Jeff Bezos) would be celebrating this, since it spreads the cost of getting humans into space.

Whether they can actually get their act together and get it done is another conversation, but I wish them well.

[DaveJ576]

Forgive me for being a nub, but instead of recreating the wheel wouldn't just be a lot simpler and a lot less expensive to either buy Falcon 9s from SpaceX or get a license to build them? To me it seems that their proposal would involve a lot of rework on ideas that have already been done.

Obviously the long pole in the tent would be to get Elon to sell them the rockets or give them the license. What is the likelihood of that happening? Probably pretty small.

[whitelancer64]

Forgive me for being a nub, but instead of recreating the wheel wouldn't just be a lot simpler and a lot less expensive to either buy Falcon 9s from SpaceX or get a license to build them? To me it seems that their proposal would involve a lot of rework on ideas that have already been done.

Obviously the long pole in the tent would be to get Elon to sell them the rockets or give them the license. What is the likelihood of that happening? Probably pretty small.

Just because something has been done before doesn't mean there isn't another way to do it. Innovation is important.

[jstrotha0975]

Forgive me for being a nub, but instead of recreating the wheel wouldn't just be a lot simpler and a lot less expensive to either buy Falcon 9s from SpaceX or get a license to build them? To me it seems that their proposal would involve a lot of rework on ideas that have already been done.

Obviously the long pole in the tent would be to get Elon to sell them the rockets or give them the license. What is the likelihood of that happening? Probably pretty small.

Maybe after Starship/Super Heavy comes online?

[Kansan52]

Remember, this to develop technology for Europe by Europe. There will never be a request to license from Space X or any other company while the plan is to develop home grown tech.







fixed spelling

[su27k]

Note this is not ESA or Ariane, who are the primary launch vehicle developers in Europe. This seems to be just some academic study funded by European Commission, probably won't have anything to do with real launch vehicle development.

[calapine]

As the description says its goal is only to research and increase the TLR of the relevant techs. While the German DLR coordinates the work the project is solely funded by the EU to the tune of 3 million Euro without German (or French) contributions.

[baldusi]

More study money. Typical of the European space launch development. Studies, studies plus more studies. Then they will do whatever is "politically possible".

[punder]

 

[JEF_300]

This is just a study, but for whatever it's worth, a 7 engine propulsively landing hydrolox first stage is one of the things I dream about, so I personally am really on board. If only they'd commit to actually do it.

Or better yet, JAXA could commit to doing it. 7 LE-9s...

[whitelancer64]

It looks more like the DC-X to me

[Michel Van]

It looks more like the DC-X to me

not first time Germany has long tradition of proposing SSTO and two stage rocket like that
first was Dietrich Koelle in 1968 with BETA I follow Ramjet augmented version by MBB
then BETA II to IV proposal
http://www.spacefuture.com/archive/beta_a_single_stage_reusable_ballistic_space_shuttle_concept.shtml

another proposal for Ariane 5 study in 1985 was Ariane Reusable (AR-X) by MBB
it look like two stage version DC-X
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1981/1981%20-%204019.html

[FutureSpaceTourist]

In response to Eric Berger’s article:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1143993847439134720

Good to see this. Splitting interstage into 4 sections will have some challenges, but could work.

twitter.com/ebelliveau/status/1143994207012577280

The question remains:  frangible or hinged?

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1143995204799799298

Frangible would def hurt reusability. Also, presumably those quarter sections are actuated or aero control will be impossible.

[punder]

It looks more like the DC-X to me

Yes but it would be much harder to turn "RETALT" into "DC-X."   

It's sort of in-between: Round cross section like the ROTON but otherwise DC-X-like.

[Asteroza]

Notable here is no JAXA involvement. Which needs to be considered in the context of Callisto/Themis, as JAXA/ISAS is working on the new RVT suborbital hopper, which is supposed to feed design data into Callisto/Themis.


Also, RETALT 1 designing for a 30MT LEO payload capacity seems a bit high? How big is the main barrel diameter then?

[Eric Hedman]

I can imagine the inter-stage quarter sections would have pretty heavy aerodynamic forces on them.  They would probably add a lot of drag maybe reducing the propellant needed to slow down and land.