Author Topic: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape  (Read 27561 times)

Offline edzieba

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape
« Reply #120 on: 06/13/2018 01:19 PM »
From some basic measurements of the render: There are two floors of approx 35m in diameter, and possibly one 'basement' level below the windowed section of 15m diameter. That gives about 270m^2 of floor space, 220m^2 being potential viewing area. Each 'level' is about 4.7m high.
Or in old money: about 2900sq.ft floor space, 2350 sq.ft viewing, with a bit over 15ft high levels.
I think you slipped a bit somewhere. If the "pod" is really 35m in diameter, that means one floor has about 960m2 of floor space. That's about 10000 sq. ft. for just one floor.
Yep, I messed up there. Corrected numbers:
2100m^2 of floor space, 1925m^2 being potential viewing area. Each 'level' is about 4.7m high.
About 22600 sq.ft floor space, 20700 sq.ft viewing, with a bit over 15ft high levels.

Offline Kabloona

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape
« Reply #121 on: 06/13/2018 01:39 PM »
I know we're at the point of diminishing returns when it comes to estimating the size of a rendering. But I get a max diameter of about 75 feet, or 25-ish meters.

That's based on scaling the distance between parking grid lines, assuming a max spacing of 9 feet, and applying a correction factor for perspective based on the apparent expansion of the space between lines as they get nearer the tower in the foreground.

From that, correcting for perspective, each floor becomes about 70 ft diameter, or 3850 sq ft, for a total of 7700 sq. ft.
« Last Edit: 06/13/2018 01:59 PM by Kabloona »

Offline Jim

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape
« Reply #122 on: 06/13/2018 07:20 PM »

The SpaceX document used 300 feet as a maximum height for any of the buildings in the 32,000 sq. ft. "Launch and Landing Control Center" area, so we can consider that a ceiling.


It is also some what in the SLF approach area

Online wolfpack

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape
« Reply #123 on: 06/14/2018 02:55 AM »
Yikes, it looks like a mushroom on steroids! Or Viagra. Either way, I guess Iím old-fashioned. I like blockhouses.

Online Shanuson

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape
« Reply #124 on: 06/14/2018 07:05 AM »
Are these water towers 100m high?

The SpaceX document used 300 feet as a maximum height for any of the buildings in the 32,000 sq. ft. "Launch and Landing Control Center" area, so we can consider that a ceiling.

But since the highest water tower here in the US (as of 2010) is only 221 feet, the SpaceX tower height might be more in that vicinity.

The SpaceX tower rendering gives us a convenient scale, ie the parking space marking lines, presumably the standard 9 feet apart. Based on that, I get:

Tower height = 200 feet
Diameter = 75 feet
Floor area at max dia = 4400 sq. ft.

So one floor at midpoint of the spheroid should be enough to house LCC in the back, and VIP viewing up front by the window.

Or if they do two floors, that's even more square footage. Yeah, it's big.

Have you used the left most parkingspace (~68.4px/5 parking spaces) or rightmost (~33.7px/5spaces)? Also did you try to estimate the perspective effects? The top is closer to the POV and therefore a pixel is less height than a the bottom of that tower. Also there is a angle under which we see the tower (which changes along the height of the tower), this will effect the measurement.
We have a two vanishing-point perspective. Lower left corner is 0,0; one VP at ~-25,460 the other VP at ~ 1700,470 with errors of +-10. Sadly I have some work to do now and don't know by hand how to use this information to estimate the height and width of the tower. Maybe I will revisit this and try to do the estimate tonight.

Best regards
Shanuson

Online Jdeshetler

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape
« Reply #125 on: 06/14/2018 07:22 AM »
One point perspective... Boy, that's a 300' tall massive tower.

Since it's based in a hurricane zone, the concrete is mostly suitable for foundation, base and the tube while the spherical is steel framing.

Just like his Tesla Semi-truck's windshield, Elon might use "armor" windows to wrap around the front of spherical.

Offline Kabloona

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape
« Reply #126 on: 06/14/2018 01:42 PM »
Are these water towers 100m high?

The SpaceX document used 300 feet as a maximum height for any of the buildings in the 32,000 sq. ft. "Launch and Landing Control Center" area, so we can consider that a ceiling.

But since the highest water tower here in the US (as of 2010) is only 221 feet, the SpaceX tower height might be more in that vicinity.

The SpaceX tower rendering gives us a convenient scale, ie the parking space marking lines, presumably the standard 9 feet apart. Based on that, I get:

Tower height = 200 feet
Diameter = 75 feet
Floor area at max dia = 4400 sq. ft.

So one floor at midpoint of the spheroid should be enough to house LCC in the back, and VIP viewing up front by the window.

Or if they do two floors, that's even more square footage. Yeah, it's big.

Have you used the left most parkingspace (~68.4px/5 parking spaces) or rightmost (~33.7px/5spaces)? Also did you try to estimate the perspective effects? The top is closer to the POV and therefore a pixel is less height than a the bottom of that tower. Also there is a angle under which we see the tower (which changes along the height of the tower), this will effect the measurement.
We have a two vanishing-point perspective. Lower left corner is 0,0; one VP at ~-25,460 the other VP at ~ 1700,470 with errors of +-10. Sadly I have some work to do now and don't know by hand how to use this information to estimate the height and width of the tower. Maybe I will revisit this and try to do the estimate tonight.

Best regards
Shanuson

Yes, I corrected for perspective. See my post 4 previous to yours.

My method was to measure the width of ten parking spaces near the center (left/right center) of the lot, perpendicular to the tower base, both at the front of the lot (ie nearest the tower base) and at the rear of the lot.

By comparing those two measurements, I got a perspective correction factor based on the relative distance between the two rows of parking spaces. I then measured the distance from the front row of parking spaces to the base of the tower, and scaled that correction factor accordingly.

Then I measured the tower dimensions relative to the dimensions of the front row of parking spaces and applied the scaled perspective correction factor. I assumed a parking space width of 9', which is the standard maximum here in the US.

Then my math is as follows:

Width of ten parking spaces nearest tower base = 10 x 9' = 99', or 2 cm measured
Tower height = 5.5 cm measured from top to center of base ellipse
Perspective correction factor = .75

Then tower height is (5.5 cm/2 cm) x 99 feet x .75 = 204 feet.

Without the perspective correction factor, the result is 272 feet, so the perspective correction makes a big difference.
« Last Edit: 06/14/2018 08:57 PM by Kabloona »

Offline Kabloona

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape
« Reply #127 on: 06/14/2018 02:07 PM »
One point perspective... Boy, that's a 300' tall massive tower.


To be clear, as shown, it's probably not a 300 foot tower, and I doubt it will be  300  feet when built.

They left themselves some wiggle room in the document by specifying a 300 foot limit, but if (as it appears) the tower design is based on using a standard steel spheroid water tower, the tallest water  spheroid in the US  is reportedly 216 feet, in Edmond, Oklahoma. And, coincidentally or not, the height of the spheroid tower in the rendering appears to be in that ballpark.
« Last Edit: 06/14/2018 02:55 PM by Kabloona »

Offline Kabloona

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape
« Reply #128 on: 06/14/2018 03:54 PM »
For comparison, here is a side-by-side of the 216-foot water spheroid in Edmond, Oklahoma, and the SpaceX tower.

The SpaceX tower has been scaled to the same height as the Edmond tower, but isn't necessarily the same height in reality. I have no way to judge the relative size. This is just an "eyeball" comparison. Probably the best way to compare is to measure the stem diameters and the spheroid diameters.

In this comparison, the stem diameters are roughly equal. The SpaceX spheroid diameter is slightly larger.

If the SpaceX tower was rescaled to have the same spheroid diameter as the Edmond tower, it would be slightly shorter.

Not possible to draw definitive conclusion, but as a sanity check I'd say it is consistent with a SpaceX tower height of around 200'.

« Last Edit: 06/14/2018 04:07 PM by Kabloona »

Offline Semmel

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape
« Reply #129 on: 06/18/2018 07:10 PM »
This is Roberts Road as seen yesterday from the bus tour at KSC. The operations complex should start to the right of the road, a few meters behind the treeline. Sorry for the poor quality. Its shot from the moving bus with a mobile phone.

Offline YEGLego

Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape
« Reply #130 on: 06/19/2018 05:23 PM »
Looks pretty unchanged from 2012.

It also looks like there was a burn just north of the intersection in 2012, do you recall if the second treeline across A Avenue is still visible or has the vegetation returned to block the view from the parkway?

Burn aftermath visible here, I assume the far treeline visible is the one across A ave: https://www.google.ca/maps/@28.5429509,-80.6598296,3a,83.7y,243.75h,83.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sht_VxCf6-dXtjpUJmYIB-A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Attatched- 2012 Streetview of Roberts Road & SR 3


Offline Semmel

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape
« Reply #131 on: 06/19/2018 07:45 PM »
Looks pretty unchanged from 2012.

It also looks like there was a burn just north of the intersection in 2012, do you recall if the second treeline across A Avenue is still visible or has the vegetation returned to block the view from the parkway?

Burn aftermath visible here, I assume the far treeline visible is the one across A ave: https://www.google.ca/maps/@28.5429509,-80.6598296,3a,83.7y,243.75h,83.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sht_VxCf6-dXtjpUJmYIB-A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Attatched- 2012 Streetview of Roberts Road & SR 3

I looked for it but I couldnt make out a second treeline or a road branching off. To the left of the road, there were many dead trees, I suspect they are swamped up and died due to water overload. Not so much to the right of the road though. I will pass that intersection on Friday again, maybe I can get a better shot or glimpse.

Offline High Bay 4

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape
« Reply #132 on: 06/24/2018 05:03 PM »
Does anyone know if NASA has offered to lease any of the firing rooms at the LC-39 LCC?  I'm not sure how many are needed for future SLS operations but at least one is currently being used for KSC bus tours.  Wouldn't it be more economical for SpaceX to look into leasing one of those for launch and landing control needs?

Online gongora

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape
« Reply #133 on: 06/24/2018 05:27 PM »
Does anyone know if NASA has offered to lease any of the firing rooms at the LC-39 LCC?  I'm not sure how many are needed for future SLS operations but at least one is currently being used for KSC bus tours.  Wouldn't it be more economical for SpaceX to look into leasing one of those for launch and landing control needs?

It's not just going to be a launch and landing control center.  They're grouping several operations together on one plot of land with space for future expansion.  (I wonder if this changes the plan to build a new facility at the port.)

Online AncientU

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape
« Reply #134 on: 06/24/2018 05:32 PM »
Does anyone know if NASA has offered to lease any of the firing rooms at the LC-39 LCC?  I'm not sure how many are needed for future SLS operations but at least one is currently being used for KSC bus tours.  Wouldn't it be more economical for SpaceX to look into leasing one of those for launch and landing control needs?

What are they currently using for launches from LC-39A? 
Assume that will be adequate until new complex is ready.
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Offline Jim

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape
« Reply #135 on: 06/26/2018 06:49 PM »
Wouldn't it be more economical for SpaceX to look into leasing one of those for launch and landing control needs?

No, would be too dependent on NASA for support.
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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape
« Reply #136 on: 07/30/2018 01:07 PM »
I'm almost a little hesitant to mention this, being that I heard it as a very vague mention. I heard from a source that somebody had mentioned to him SpaceX considering a lease on the old Craig Technologies building in Cape Canaveral at 8550 Astronaut Blvd. It's listed on the county website as 12.44 acres and just over 160,000 sqft. Probably not tall enough for booster processing without major modifications. Could there be potential for engineering space or future starlink production closer to the launch site? I believe there are leftover facilities such as an anechoic chamber and some large ovens and clean rooms, all from the days of United Space Alliance building shuttle components there.

Offline Kabloona

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape
« Reply #137 on: 07/30/2018 06:13 PM »
I'm almost a little hesitant to mention this, being that I heard it as a very vague mention. I heard from a source that somebody had mentioned to him SpaceX considering a lease on the old Craig Technologies building in Cape Canaveral at 8550 Astronaut Blvd. It's listed on the county website as 12.44 acres and just over 160,000 sqft. Probably not tall enough for booster processing without major modifications. Could there be potential for engineering space or future starlink production closer to the launch site? I believe there are leftover facilities such as an anechoic chamber and some large ovens and clean rooms, all from the days of United Space Alliance building shuttle components there.

Apparently that is the old Shuttle Logistics Depot building.

http://www.craigtechinc.com/images/Rockwell%20NSLD.JPG

Lease listing describes the facilities and equipment in detail.

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/8550-Astronaut-Blvd-Cape-Canaveral-FL/6666781/
« Last Edit: 07/30/2018 06:27 PM by Kabloona »

Offline Mccrase

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape
« Reply #138 on: 07/30/2018 07:11 PM »
The pictures in this article include some of the equipment I mentioned, but not listed on the real estate site.

https://www.floridatrend.com/article/15953/carol-craig-is-making-opportunites
« Last Edit: 07/30/2018 07:12 PM by Mccrase »

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