Author Topic: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3  (Read 206789 times)

Offline SWGlassPit

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #340 on: 04/12/2018 03:56 PM »
While I appreciate the excitement on this website for what Space X is accomplshing, I am somewhat baffled that there isn’t more excitement (or more postings) for this Boeing entry.

This particular spacecraft configuration/architecture was pretty exciting... 50 years ago.

Its almost the same as the other spacecraft.  People are more excited for a certain company's hype.

Maybe it is because I grew up watching Apollo, but to me, Starliner is something akin to what we may have seen Apollo evolve into, at least for LEO taxi service, had we remained with its incredibly robust and practical configuration, probably guaranteeing easier and reliable regular access to LEO without the huge involvement required for an Orbiter launch.  Shuttle was an incredible vehicle, but its much higher than expected costs, and safety concerns limited its practical applications to high-cost, high-profile undertakings.

This design is being returned to because it works and is practical in its relative simplicity. The ease of access to orbit, and the possibility of Boeing evolving the core vehicle for more intensive needs, is an exciting prospect. Why is it some folks think because it was used (very successfully) decades ago, but then abandoned, that it no longer has validity as an excellent design.  This is like looking at the B2 bomber and saying “ya know, the old B49 already did the flying wing configuration, and you know, it wasnt the best thing in the sky — and we moved on decades ago — so the B2 will likewise be worthless...”.

Agree with this.  People are judging the "innovation" of a spacecraft by its outer mold line, which is akin to judging a book not by its cover, but by the fact that it is generally rectangularly shaped.  Spacecraft, aircraft, sea vessels, etc, tend to have similar shapes from design to design because those shapes are dictated by physics. 

Offline woods170

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #341 on: 04/13/2018 06:39 AM »
For me, Boeing isn't flying any version of the Starliner and the other guys are flying a version of theirs.

On the other hand, it has been fun watching Boeing lose on the Orion competition, builds from that and work with Bigelow to come to the Starliner and may will fly before Orion.

Yes, that is most ironic.

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #342 on: 04/13/2018 08:06 AM »
On the other hand, it has been fun watching Boeing lose on the Orion competition, builds from that and work with Bigelow to come to the Starliner and may will fly before Orion.

Orion has already flown (EFT-1 with a dummy service module on 5 December 2014). Starliner will fly crew before Orion though.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline woods170

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #343 on: 04/13/2018 09:25 AM »
On the other hand, it has been fun watching Boeing lose on the Orion competition, builds from that and work with Bigelow to come to the Starliner and may will fly before Orion.

Orion has already flown (EFT-1 with a dummy service module on 5 December 2014). Starliner will fly crew before Orion though.

What flew on EFT-1 in 2014 was a bare-bones version of the crew module, with an inert LAS and structural spacer in stead of service module.

Doing an apples-to-apples comparison between Starliner and Orion - with regards to flight testing that is - is comparing Starliner's OFT against Orion's EM-1. Both missions will fly unmanned versions of the full-up spacecraft.
In which case Starliner flies well before Orion.
« Last Edit: 04/13/2018 12:09 PM by woods170 »

Offline abaddon

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #344 on: 04/13/2018 02:01 PM »
So now we've moved from bringing up Dragon to bringing up Orion into the thread.  Starliner can't win it seems ;).

Me, I can't wait to see Starliner fly from the newly crew-capable Atlas V pad!  Also looking forward to the upcoming abort test.  Any word on whether that will be livestreamed or not yet?

Offline clongton

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #345 on: 04/13/2018 02:19 PM »
I'm looking forward to all 3 of them flying. But you're right. This is the CST-100 thread and should be kept on-topic. There are plenty of threads for the others.
Chuck - DIRECT co-founder
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Offline Chris Bergin

FEATURE ARTICLE: Starliner gets potential mission duration increase for Crew Flight Test -

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018/04/starliner-potential-mission-duration-increase-crew-test/
- By Chris Gebhardt

(Renders by Nathan Koga for NSF/L2)
« Last Edit: 04/13/2018 07:26 PM by Chris Bergin »

Offline Ike17055

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #347 on: 04/14/2018 02:59 PM »
On the other hand, it has been fun watching Boeing lose on the Orion competition, builds from that and work with Bigelow to come to the Starliner and may will fly before Orion.

Orion has already flown (EFT-1 with a dummy service module on 5 December 2014). Starliner will fly crew before Orion though.

What flew on EFT-1 in 2014 was a bare-bones version of the crew module, with an inert LAS and structural spacer in stead of service module.

Doing an apples-to-apples comparison between Starliner and Orion - with regards to flight testing that is - is comparing Starliner's OFT against Orion's EM-1. Both missions will fly unmanned versions of the full-up spacecraft.
In which case Starliner flies well before Orion.


I always find it amazing that so many will say “what flew wasn’t REALLY a real Orion,” but then will just as boldly say that Dragon “is already flying,” as if there is no real difference between crew dragon and cargo dragon. Orion for EFT-1 bore just as much resemblance to its completed version (more, in the opinion of some) as the cargo Dragon does to its built-outs uccessor, the Crew Dragon, with which it mainly shares a similar or identical pressure vessel.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #348 on: 04/14/2018 06:53 PM »
On the other hand, it has been fun watching Boeing lose on the Orion competition, builds from that and work with Bigelow to come to the Starliner and may will fly before Orion.

Orion has already flown (EFT-1 with a dummy service module on 5 December 2014). Starliner will fly crew before Orion though.

What flew on EFT-1 in 2014 was a bare-bones version of the crew module, with an inert LAS and structural spacer in stead of service module.

Doing an apples-to-apples comparison between Starliner and Orion - with regards to flight testing that is - is comparing Starliner's OFT against Orion's EM-1. Both missions will fly unmanned versions of the full-up spacecraft.
In which case Starliner flies well before Orion.


I always find it amazing that so many will say “what flew wasn’t REALLY a real Orion,” but then will just as boldly say that Dragon “is already flying,” as if there is no real difference between crew dragon and cargo dragon. Orion for EFT-1 bore just as much resemblance to its completed version (more, in the opinion of some) as the cargo Dragon does to its built-outs uccessor, the Crew Dragon, with which it mainly shares a similar or identical pressure vessel.
I think you'd have a valid point if SpaceX had stopped at SpaceX COTS Demo Flight 1. But SpaceX has a huge number of Dragon missions under their belt, now, of a sophistication much higher than EFT-1 or COTS Demo 1. The heatshield tech (which was a big part of what EFT-1 and COTS Demo 1 were testing) is also more similar between Dragon cargo and crew than between EFT-1 and later Orion versions, so in spite of the differences in outer moldline, I'd say EFT-1 and Demo-1 were fairly close to each other as far as replicating the eventual crewed variants. But for actual operations and deep, near-term experience with capsules, SpaceX is unrivaled in the US.
« Last Edit: 04/14/2018 10:29 PM by Robotbeat »
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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #349 on: 05/03/2018 09:23 AM »
Boeing’s CST-100 Pad Abort Test Vehicle is almost ready to head to White Sands, New Mexico, to test the launch abort engines. During that test, the four abort engines will prove that the vehicle can safely perform an abort maneuver in the event of an emergency on the launchpad or during flight. The vehicle is mated to the service module for a fit check, and then the two will be taken apart for final preparations before heading to the desert.

Photo credit: Boeing

Online jacqmans

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #350 on: 05/03/2018 09:24 AM »
Boeing’s CST-100 Starliner Crew Flight Test vehicle will be the second to go to space, and the first to fly crew on a test flight to the International Space Station. In this picture, the upper dome is actually mated to the lower dome, but only electronically. The Boeing team is making sure all the hardware and software in the two pieces are working together correctly, before they will be put together for a final time. Then, the interior of the spacecraft will be outfitted and the outside will be covered with thermal protection.

Photo credit: Boeing

Online jacqmans

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #351 on: 05/03/2018 09:24 AM »
Boeing’s CST-100 Starliner Orbital Flight Test vehicle will fly the first test flight to space on an uncrewed mission to the International Space Station. Here you see the spacecraft’s upper dome undergoing the final preparations before the upper and lower dome are mated for a pressure test, and then the two domes will move on to be populated with avionics, life support and other critical hardware.

Photo credit: Boeing

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #352 on: 05/11/2018 01:39 PM »
Quote
Full house. A full crew evaluates what it will be like on the @Boeing #Starliner  during launch and landing day. Exercises like this help define procedures and give the crew a sense of what to expect. @Commercial_Crew

https://twitter.com/astro_ferg/status/994933930984960000

Offline su27k

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #353 on: 05/19/2018 04:32 AM »
This was originally the title image for article https://www.nasa.gov/feature/team-simulates-commercial-crew-flights-to-space-station, but for some reason they changed the Boeing image to the full crew evaluation one instead, maybe because the original Boeing image is a bit confusing? What is the right hand side astronaut doing?
« Last Edit: 05/19/2018 04:34 AM by su27k »

Offline zhangmdev

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #354 on: 05/21/2018 10:23 AM »
<snip> What is the right hand side astronaut doing?

"NASA’s Commercial Crew Program astronauts, wearing spacesuits and augmented reality headsets, rehearse returning to Earth from the International Space Station during recent testing at Boeing’s Extended Reality Laboratory in Philadelphia. The astronauts are seated upside down so they can practice releasing their seat harness and moving to the side hatch of the Starliner without assistance. The astronauts wearing the mixed reality gear see a digital version of the interior of the Starliner as it would look in the real-life scenario while interacting with the environment around them. Photo credit: Boeing"

https://blogs.nasa.gov/commercialcrew/


Offline clongton

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #356 on: 05/30/2018 04:03 PM »
Chuck - DIRECT co-founder
I started my career on the Saturn-V F-1A engine

Offline Jimmy_C

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« Last Edit: 06/09/2018 05:43 AM by Jimmy_C »

Offline soltasto

Tory Bruno confirms that the next Atlas launch is AEHF in October, which implies the OFT will be after that.


https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1007971477444952065?s=19

Attached screenshot just in case ;)

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #359 on: 06/29/2018 03:33 PM »
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The upper and lower domes of the Boeing CST-100 Starliner Spacecraft 2 Crew Flight Test Vehicle were mated June 19, 2018, inside the Commercial Crew and Cargo Processing Facility (C3PF) at Kennedy Space Center in Florida. The Starliner will launch astronauts on a United Launch Alliance Atlas V rocket to the International Space Station as part of NASA’s Commercial Crew Program.

Photo credit: Boeing

https://www.flickr.com/photos/nasakennedy/41276984680

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