Author Topic: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics  (Read 210844 times)

Offline Star One

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #160 on: 05/09/2018 08:23 pm »
Congress eyes conventional hypersonic triad, seeks details of marquee DOD hypersonic project


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Draft legislation would require Pentagon brass to validate a requirement for a potential conventional hypersonic strike triad -- setting the stage for a ground-, sea-, and air-launched ultra-fast boost-glide weapon -- along with cost estimates for accelerating initial operational capability of each notional leg of this fledgling new class of weapon.

The chairman's mark of the House Armed Services Committee's version of the fiscal year 2019 defense authorization bill includes provisions that aim to tighten congressional oversight of the Conventional Prompt Strike program, the U.S. military's marquee effort to develop an intermediate-range hypersonic strike capability.

The draft legislation, made public May 7, calls for the defense secretary to provide Congress by Nov. 30 "a validated requirement for ground-, sea-, or air-launched (or a combination thereof) conventional prompt global strike hypersonic capabilities."

The Pentagon does not have a formal acquisition program of record for a hypersonic strike capability. The Defense Department is exploring potential boost-glide hypersonic technologies as part of a research and development effort overseen by the Office of the Secretary of Defense, a project that has spent nearly $1 billion to date, with plans to allocate nearly $2 billion over the next five years.

In accordance with congressional guidance in the FY-16 National Defense Authorization Act, DOD plans a materiel development decision for a Conventional Prompt Strike capability in FY-20, the initial gateway to a formal acquisition effort. In preparation, the Pentagon earlier this year revealed plans to give the Navy responsibility to manage development of the Conventional Strike Program beginning in FY-19.

At congressional direction in the FY-18 NDAA, Pentagon leaders are drafting a "plan to reach an early operational capability for the conventional prompt strike weapon system by not later than September 30, 2022." The report, due in June, is to be prepared by the Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman in consultation with the heads of U.S. European, Pacific and Strategic commands, and will outline "the required level of resources that is consistent with the level of priority associated to the capability gap."

The high-level Pentagon panel responsible for endorsing the need for a new weapon system program -- the Joint Requirements Oversight Council -- has examined the issue of hypersonic strike at least twice in the last five years. In September 2016, the panel re-validated the requirement for Conventional Prompt Strike as part of a larger "family of systems," according to the Joint Staff.

And in 2013, the JROC validated the Conventional Prompt Strike -- which previously aspired to have a "global" reach -- focus on demonstrating the feasibility of a hypersonic, boost-glide weapon for a potential intermediate-range strike system that could be deployed independent of service or service platform.

In addition, the draft legislation unveiled by the House this week would direct the Pentagon's acquisition executive to deliver a report by Jan. 31, 2019 on a plan to "deliver a conventional prompt global strike weapon system" by the 2022 target date. That report, according to the draft legislation, is to include "options with cost estimates for accelerating the initial capability for such a system" and an outline of the policy issues required by Pentagon leaders in order to "employ hypersonic offense capabilities from each potential launch platform of such system."

The proposed bill also seeks an explanation from DOD of the "assessed level of ambiguity and misinterpretation risk relating to the conventional prompt global strike weapon system," including any potential confusion by adversaries as to whether the hypersonic strike weapon could be carrying a nuclear warhead. In addition, the report is to outline potential risks related to Conventional Prompt Strike and "platform ambiguity" and "perceptions of the survivability of strategic nuclear forces."

Offline john smith 19

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #161 on: 05/10/2018 10:36 pm »
Congress eyes conventional hypersonic triad, seeks details of marquee DOD hypersonic project


Quote
The proposed bill also seeks an explanation from DOD of the "assessed level of ambiguity and misinterpretation risk relating to the conventional prompt global strike weapon system," including any potential confusion by adversaries as to whether the hypersonic strike weapon could be carrying a nuclear warhead. In addition, the report is to outline potential risks related to Conventional Prompt Strike and "platform ambiguity" and "perceptions of the survivability of strategic nuclear forces."
Which obviously would be very high for something that looks anything like an ICBM, but rather less so with a more horizontal trajectory.

Since most of the US concepts are based around a SCramjet they will be highly risky and eyewateringly expensive.

Boost glide is the one that looks simplest to actually implement by sticking something winged on a big rocket, but we're back to how much it resembles an ICBM, and of course how small would it have to be before an adversary would rule out that it could be fitted with a nuclear warhead. The answer to which is "very small indeed," given the US has put nuclear warheads on 155 artillery shells.
MCT ITS BFR SS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFSC engined CFRP SS structure A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of Earth & Mars atmospheric flight.First flight to Mars by end of 2022 TBC. T&C apply. Trust nothing. Run your own #s "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" R. Simberg."Competitve" means cheaper ¬cheap SCramjet proposed 1956. First +ve thrust 2004. US R&D spend to date > $10Bn. #deployed designs. Zero.

Offline Star One

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General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #162 on: 05/12/2018 07:52 am »
National Hypersonics Initiative

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The committee is aware of a National Hypersonics Initiative under
development by the Under Secretary of Defense for Research and Engineering, in
conjunction with the military services, defense labs, and the Defense Advanced
Research Projects Agency. The committee recognizes the growing amount of
resources and emphasis placed by the Department of Defense on the research and
development of hypersonic vehicle technology. The committee supports the
development of a National Hypersonics Initiative, and believes it is prudent and consistent with the roles and responsibilities granted to the Department’s Joint Hypersonics Transition Office as authorized in the National Defense Authorization
Act of 2018 (Public Law 115-91).
Therefore, the committee directs the Under Secretary of Defense for
Research and Engineering to provide a briefing to the House Committee on Armed
Services not later than September 15, 2018, on the status of the National
Hypersonics Initiative

OpFires
PROGRAM OBJECTIVE AND DESCRIPTION:


Quote
The objective of the OpFires program is to develop and demonstrate a novel groundlaunched
system enabling advanced weapons to penetrate modern enemy air defenses
and rapidly and precisely engage critical time sensitive targets. DARPA seeks to develop
an advanced booster capable of delivering a variety of payloads at a variety of ranges.
OpFires will focus on the development of innovative propulsion to maximize the
operational range envelope of the system and adapt to a variety of potential payloads.
The program plans to conduct a series of subsystem tests designed to evaluate
component design and system compatibility, and assess the value of innovative
propulsion system concepts. It is planned to culminate in an integrated end-to-end flight
test campaign following integration with a compatible mobile ground launch platform.
The OpFires program includes two separate and successive tasks, the Propulsion System
task and the Weapon System Integration task. Each task will have a separate BAA. This
Proposers Day and associated BAA will encompass the Propulsion System task. The
Propulsion System task will focus on developing and demonstrating innovative
propulsion concepts for flexible-range boosters and will be conducted in two phases.
Phase 1 will include propulsion system preliminary design and proof of concept testing
to demonstrate key elements of the propulsion system design. Phase 2 is anticipated to
mature designs to critical design level and conduct hot/static fires of at least two
representative test articles.
A BAA for the Weapon System Integration task is planned for release in FY 2019.
« Last Edit: 05/12/2018 12:49 pm by Star One »

Offline Star One

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General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #163 on: 05/21/2018 04:49 pm »
https://twitter.com/inbarspace/status/998288620330070016?s=20

Quote
First display of "Lingyun” hypersonic chinese missile. Interesting platform  - soon to be developed into a near space weapon system?

More here.

“Lingyun 1,a hypersonic aircraft that can travel at more than five times the speed of sound, or 6,100 kilometer per hour, made its public debut at the museum on Saturday. It was developed by the College of Aerospace Science and Technology at the National University of Defense Technology.

The craft has a Chinese-designed supersonic combustion ramjet engine, also known as scramjet, the exhibition panel relates. The missile-shaped Lingyun made its maiden flight in 2015, making it the second low-cost, multipurpose hypersonic vehicle known to the public - the other is the HIFiRE vehicle jointly developed by the United States and Australia."

source: Zhang Zhihao, "Spotlight focused on science, tech frontiers", China Daily, May 21, 2018
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201805/21/WS5b0216afa3103f6866ee982d.html
« Last Edit: 05/21/2018 04:57 pm by Star One »

Offline john smith 19

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #164 on: 05/22/2018 07:06 am »
https://twitter.com/inbarspace/status/998288620330070016?s=20

Quote
First display of "Lingyun” hypersonic chinese missile. Interesting platform  - soon to be developed into a near space weapon system?

More here.

“Lingyun 1,a hypersonic aircraft that can travel at more than five times the speed of sound, or 6,100 kilometer per hour, made its public debut at the museum on Saturday. It was developed by the College of Aerospace Science and Technology at the National University of Defense Technology.

The craft has a Chinese-designed supersonic combustion ramjet engine, also known as scramjet, the exhibition panel relates. The missile-shaped Lingyun made its maiden flight in 2015, making it the second low-cost, multipurpose hypersonic vehicle known to the public - the other is the HIFiRE vehicle jointly developed by the United States and Australia."

source: Zhang Zhihao, "Spotlight focused on science, tech frontiers", China Daily, May 21, 2018
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201805/21/WS5b0216afa3103f6866ee982d.html
It looks like an air breathing missile but beyond that it's difficult to say what it is.

I'm guessing the nose angle and the inlet gap might give a few clues and it's size suggests its fuel load, if we know wheather it's solid or liquid fueled.

I'm guessing the US has a few satellite videos of it on IR, but the key parts are what it's made of.
I'll also note it doesn't seem to use forebody compression in the way US designs do. That makes it much  more like conventional ramjet design. Even the drawings of Aerojets "Dual Mode Ramjet" show the SCramjet part being an open duct. IIRC this is because the walls of an enclosed duct add too much drag, which should tell you how finely balanced an SCramjet is between working just about working, and not working at all.

Note that a conventional M5 ramjet would still be a very significant feat on an operational weapon.
MCT ITS BFR SS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFSC engined CFRP SS structure A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of Earth & Mars atmospheric flight.First flight to Mars by end of 2022 TBC. T&C apply. Trust nothing. Run your own #s "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" R. Simberg."Competitve" means cheaper ¬cheap SCramjet proposed 1956. First +ve thrust 2004. US R&D spend to date > $10Bn. #deployed designs. Zero.

Offline Star One

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #165 on: 05/22/2018 02:56 pm »
Thank you for the analysis. Are you particularly impressed by it from an engineering prospective?

Offline john smith 19

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #166 on: 05/23/2018 12:11 pm »
Thank you for the analysis. Are you particularly impressed by it from an engineering prospective?
We know you can build a SCramjet vehicle that can last 10 minutes at M5+ if the engine is 1/2 the GTOW.

But  building a  vehicle which is a) M5+ capable b)Air breathing c)Carries significant payload (other than the engine itself) and is an operational vehicle is (if real) very impressive.

Bonus points if they're planning to fly it as a sea skimmer to make detection difficult. The air density at Sea Level (compared to say 70 000 feet) will give skin temperatures close to re-entry  temperatures, although the heating issues even at high altitude are far from trivial. Most of the materials are pretty heavy, multiplying the problems of a propulsion system with poor T/W ratio.

Assuming this is real, and not some PR mockup it is a formidable feat of engineering, even if it's actually a ramjet, rather than a SCramjet. Patriot and the Israeli "Iron Dome" systems and the Russian -400 systems are equally fast, but all rely on large rockets to do so.

MCT ITS BFR SS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFSC engined CFRP SS structure A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of Earth & Mars atmospheric flight.First flight to Mars by end of 2022 TBC. T&C apply. Trust nothing. Run your own #s "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" R. Simberg."Competitve" means cheaper ¬cheap SCramjet proposed 1956. First +ve thrust 2004. US R&D spend to date > $10Bn. #deployed designs. Zero.

Offline wizzard3

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #167 on: 05/26/2018 05:04 am »
it has an aerospike nose

Offline john smith 19

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #168 on: 05/26/2018 08:57 am »
it has an aerospike nose
Welcome to the forum.

Quite a lot of ramjets have a spiked nose, but here the air is going in, not out of the slot.
MCT ITS BFR SS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFSC engined CFRP SS structure A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of Earth & Mars atmospheric flight.First flight to Mars by end of 2022 TBC. T&C apply. Trust nothing. Run your own #s "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" R. Simberg."Competitve" means cheaper ¬cheap SCramjet proposed 1956. First +ve thrust 2004. US R&D spend to date > $10Bn. #deployed designs. Zero.

Offline Star One

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #169 on: 06/04/2018 08:04 pm »
Lack of funds causes USAF to skip hypersonic cruise missile competition

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The US Air Force skipped a more extensive competition for its nearly $1 billion hypersonic cruise missile development contract due to lack of available funds to pay multiple sources to develop alternative prototypes, according to a newly-released government document.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/lack-of-funds-causes-usaf-to-skip-hypersonic-cruise-449192/


Offline Star One

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #170 on: 06/13/2018 08:24 pm »
https://aerospaceamerica.aiaa.org/features/hypersonic-weapons-race/

Quote
Even before Russian President Vladimir Putin’s saber rattling this year about high-speed weapons, the U.S. was laying plans to sharpen its focus on hypersonic weapons, motivated mainly by China’s ambitious research and weapons tests. The Trump Pentagon wants to put this new focus in place in the 2019 budget.

Chinese researchers have been publishing technical papers at a blistering pace about their fundamental research into hypersonic flight, loosely defined as maneuvering in the atmosphere at speeds above 6,000 kph. Flying faster than Mach 5 could be a handy way to travel, but for the leaders in this field — China, Russia and the U.S. — the emphasis has shifted to weapons. At least some of China’s research appears to be headed in that direction, based on references to missiles in the published papers, although my inquiries to the Chinese Embassy’s press office about the purpose of this research went unreturned. The Pentagon reported to Congress earlier this year that China has conducted 20 times as many hypersonic flight tests as the U.S. The most noteworthy recent test was in November, when China flew a new hypersonic missile, the DF-17, capable of flying 1,800 to 2,500 kilometers, as first reported by The Diplomat website.

Offline Star One

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #171 on: 06/20/2018 07:22 pm »
A key technology for something like the SR-72.

USAF set to begin dual mode ramjet design for hypersonic vehicle

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The US Air Force has set plans to begin the competitive phase of a plan to develop a dual mode ramjet for a new class of missiles and aircraft with top speeds over Mach 3.

Quote
”The overall objective is to identify, develop, mature, and demonstrate technologies that enable refurbishable high speed (M>3) capability for intelligence/surveillance/reconnaissance (ISR) and strike platforms by 2028, and for quick-turn fully reusable systems by 2035,” the AFRL stated in 2016.

“It is envisioned that the earlier demonstration systems will be air-launched utilising rocket-boost to reach hypersonic cruise speeds, and later employing combined cycle engines that permit runway operations,” the AFRL says.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/usaf-set-to-begin-dual-mode-ramjet-design-for-hypers-449581/

Offline Star One

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #172 on: 06/20/2018 08:55 pm »
Hypersonic Flight: Progress and Challenges

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Join the Doolittle Institute, the Northwest Florida Chapter of the American Institute of Aerospace and Aeronautics (AIAA), and the Air Force Research Laboratory (AFRL) for our distinguished speaker series. For this speaking engagement, we’ll welcome Dr. Mark Lewis as he discusses Hypersonic Flight: Progress and Challenges on the Way to High Mach Systems.

Dr. Lewis, a longtime advocate of hypersonics, is currently the director of the Science and Technology Policy Institute  within the Institute for Defense Analyses, which is one of the nation’s Federally-Funded Research & Development Centers (FFRDC). He is a former Chief Scientist of the Air Force as well as past national president of AIAA. You can read Dr. Lewis’ full bio here.

The lecture will begin at 10:00 a.m. in the Doolittle Institute’s Shangri-La Auditorium; a networking and meet-and-greet will follow. The event is free and open to the public.

http://defensewerx.org/events/hypersonic-flight-progress-and-challenges/

Offline Star One

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #173 on: 06/26/2018 12:56 pm »
Boeing Unveils Hypersonic Airliner Concept

Quote
Boeing Commercial Airplanes (BCA) has joined with hypersonic specialists at the company’s Research & Technology unit to study a Mach 5 passenger transport capable of crossing the Atlantic in 2 hr. or the Pacific in 3. The initial concept vehicle, unveiled at the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA) Aviation 2018 conference in Atlanta, is a preliminary step toward a long-range development plan targeted at both commercial and military applications. Although not ...

http://m.aviationweek.com/commercial-aviation/boeing-unveils-hypersonic-airliner-concept

Offline RobLynn

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #174 on: 06/26/2018 10:00 pm »
Boeing Unveils Hypersonic Airliner Concept

Quote
Boeing Commercial Airplanes (BCA) has joined with hypersonic specialists at the company’s Research & Technology unit to study a Mach 5 passenger transport capable of crossing the Atlantic in 2 hr. or the Pacific in 3. The initial concept vehicle, unveiled at the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA) Aviation 2018 conference in Atlanta, is a preliminary step toward a long-range development plan targeted at both commercial and military applications. Although not ...

http://m.aviationweek.com/commercial-aviation/boeing-unveils-hypersonic-airliner-concept

This concept is garbage.  Windows?  when Mach 5 stagnation temperatures are >1000°C?
Also given L/D of only 4-5 for hypersonic planes your range is terrible - likely less than 5000km unless you use Liquid Hydrogen, in which case you have to make the craft huge for the necessary volume of tankage.  And of course given the huge engine power the sonic boom is going to be staggering.

Reaction Engines Lapcat is a reasonable approach, this is nothing but a BS advertisement by Boeing. 
The glass is neither half full nor half empty, it's just twice as big as it needs to be.

Offline Star One

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #175 on: 06/26/2018 10:06 pm »
Boeing Unveils Hypersonic Airliner Concept

Quote
Boeing Commercial Airplanes (BCA) has joined with hypersonic specialists at the company’s Research & Technology unit to study a Mach 5 passenger transport capable of crossing the Atlantic in 2 hr. or the Pacific in 3. The initial concept vehicle, unveiled at the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA) Aviation 2018 conference in Atlanta, is a preliminary step toward a long-range development plan targeted at both commercial and military applications. Although not ...

http://m.aviationweek.com/commercial-aviation/boeing-unveils-hypersonic-airliner-concept

This concept is garbage.  Windows?  when Mach 5 stagnation temperatures are >1000°C?
Also given L/D of only 4-5 for hypersonic planes your range is terrible - likely less than 5000km unless you use Liquid Hydrogen, in which case you have to make the craft huge for the necessary volume of tankage.  And of course given the huge engine power the sonic boom is going to be staggering.

Reaction Engines Lapcat is a reasonable approach, this is nothing but a BS advertisement by Boeing.

Did you even bother reading the article because if you had you would see this will be using technology from REL.

Offline EnigmaSCADA

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #176 on: 06/27/2018 12:09 am »
Boeing Unveils Hypersonic Airliner Concept

Quote
Boeing Commercial Airplanes (BCA) has joined with hypersonic specialists at the company’s Research & Technology unit to study a Mach 5 passenger transport capable of crossing the Atlantic in 2 hr. or the Pacific in 3. The initial concept vehicle, unveiled at the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA) Aviation 2018 conference in Atlanta, is a preliminary step toward a long-range development plan targeted at both commercial and military applications. Although not ...

http://m.aviationweek.com/commercial-aviation/boeing-unveils-hypersonic-airliner-concept

This concept is garbage.  Windows?  when Mach 5 stagnation temperatures are >1000°C?
Also given L/D of only 4-5 for hypersonic planes your range is terrible - likely less than 5000km unless you use Liquid Hydrogen, in which case you have to make the craft huge for the necessary volume of tankage.  And of course given the huge engine power the sonic boom is going to be staggering.

Reaction Engines Lapcat is a reasonable approach, this is nothing but a BS advertisement by Boeing.

Did you even bother reading the article because if you had you would see this will be using technology from REL.

Boeing Unveils Hypersonic Airliner Concept

Quote
Boeing Commercial Airplanes (BCA) has joined with hypersonic specialists at the company’s Research & Technology unit to study a Mach 5 passenger transport capable of crossing the Atlantic in 2 hr. or the Pacific in 3. The initial concept vehicle, unveiled at the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA) Aviation 2018 conference in Atlanta, is a preliminary step toward a long-range development plan targeted at both commercial and military applications. Although not ...

http://m.aviationweek.com/commercial-aviation/boeing-unveils-hypersonic-airliner-concept

This concept is garbage.  Windows?  when Mach 5 stagnation temperatures are >1000°C?
Also given L/D of only 4-5 for hypersonic planes your range is terrible - likely less than 5000km unless you use Liquid Hydrogen, in which case you have to make the craft huge for the necessary volume of tankage.  And of course given the huge engine power the sonic boom is going to be staggering.

Reaction Engines Lapcat is a reasonable approach, this is nothing but a BS advertisement by Boeing.

Did you even bother reading the article because if you had you would see this will be using technology from REL.

Yeah, it helps to read the article before comment.

That said, does anyone really believe that Boeing is really serious about bringing such a thing to market for commercial travel? I'm asking honestly, I don't know the first thing about the intentions or business case for such a bird but the lessons of Concorde are pretty much commercial aerospace canon at this point so it would seem to me that heavy dose of skepticism is more than reasonable.

 I'd love to be wrong, but what makes anyone think this is a genuine effort to bring this craft into the market? As I said a few sentences ago, I'm very interested/hopeful for things like this, but count me as a non-believer in this press release, I believe it when they deliver some to a customer (USG doesn't count).
« Last Edit: 06/27/2018 12:10 am by EnigmaSCADA »

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #177 on: 06/27/2018 02:00 pm »

Yeah, it helps to read the article before comment.

That said, does anyone really believe that Boeing is really serious about bringing such a thing to market for commercial travel? I'm asking honestly, I don't know the first thing about the intentions or business case for such a bird but the lessons of Concorde are pretty much commercial aerospace canon at this point so it would seem to me that heavy dose of skepticism is more than reasonable.

 I'd love to be wrong, but what makes anyone think this is a genuine effort to bring this craft into the market? As I said a few sentences ago, I'm very interested/hopeful for things like this, but count me as a non-believer in this press release, I believe it when they deliver some to a customer (USG doesn't count).


Concorde shows that there is a small market for fast first class travel across the Atlantic. About a half filled Concorde from London to New York per day.

edit:spelling
« Last Edit: 06/28/2018 12:19 am by A_M_Swallow »

Offline Star One

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #178 on: 06/27/2018 04:19 pm »
MDA Eyes Space Sensors To Track Hypersonic Threats

Quote
The agency already has midcourse discrimination sensors that will look out into space, such as the Long-Range Discrimination Radar that is expected to be operational by 2020 in Clear, Alaska.
“That requires you to do more than tracking,” Graves said. “You have to classify the target and then you have to discriminate the re-entry vehicle out from balloons, chaff or distractors.”
Another system, the Missile Defense Tracking System, would be positioned in space looking down at the Earth for the heat signature of a hypersonic threat, Greaves said. The idea is to continue to track the missile even if it is more sophisticated or the target grows dimmer. Hypersonic missiles do not fly in a predictable path the way that ballistic missiles do, and would need more continuous monitoring.

http://aviationweek.com/defense/mda-eyes-space-sensors-track-hypersonic-threats

Offline Lar

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Re: General Hypersonic Flight Related Topics
« Reply #179 on: 06/28/2018 12:01 am »

Yeah, it helps to read the article before comment.

That said, does anyone really believe that Boeing is really serious about bringing such a thing to market for commercial travel? I'm asking honestly, I don't know the first thing about the intentions or business case for such a bird but the lessons of Concorde are pretty much commercial aerospace canon at this point so it would seem to me that heavy dose of skepticism is more than reasonable.

 I'd love to be wrong, but what makes anyone think this is a genuine effort to bring this craft into the market? As I said a few sentences ago, I'm very interested/hopeful for things like this, but count me as a non-believer in this press release, I believe it when they deliver some to a customer (USG doesn't count).


Concorde shows that there is a small market for fast first last travel across the Atlantic. About a half filled Concorde from London to New York per day.
Class of service split is very price elastic. The market was that size at the Concorde fare point. But many many Concordes worth of passengers cross that way every day. It's not clear that the market at, say 20% higher[1] than a base economy fare is sitll 1/2 a Concorde.

1 - this premium is not necessarily reasonable, it may be higher, but if you compare Concorde fares to base economy fares of the day it was more like a 5X premium or more, not a 1.2X premium....
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