Here is a Caltech 2017 proposal for the MAV.http://kiss.caltech.edu/lectures/Karp_Lecture_PPT.pdfI think the original orbiting sample was going to be 5 kg.By 2014 that was up to 6.65 kg, a 20cm sphereBy 2015 that was up to 14 kg, a 30 cm sphereIn 2018 it is 12 kg, a 28 cm sphereNeedless to say, the mass of Martian material hasn't increased at all. The packaging has got a lot heavier.This seems to have driven a shift to the hybrid rocket. The hybrid rocket technology isn't that mature, with a TRL of 3 at the time of the presentation in March 2017.@zhangmdev...I don't have anything on the sample return capsule.
@Blackstar ... Any idea why the mass of the orbiting sample has gone up so much? 5 kg to 12 kg is a big increase and further increases could blow up the whole project.
It's pleasing to see something materializing after all these years. I still recall how there would have been a 2003 (or 2005, one or the other window) MSR attempt, but no doubt it would still have ultimately been put off. I'm still not fond of the rendezvous idea, but at least it seems to be slowly becoming reality; whether or not the funds do of course is what it boils down to.So a small hybrid rocket will put a ~12kg package into low orbit?
As one person asked me "MSR has been studied for decades, so what's different now?" I think that's a fair question, and there's actually a good answer.
Quote from: Blackstar on 07/03/2018 02:46 pmAs one person asked me "MSR has been studied for decades, so what's different now?" I think that's a fair question, and there's actually a good answer. As Blackstar notes, the technology developments are the game changer -- without them, a 2020s sample return wouldn't be possible.
In addition to his list, I believe the European willingness to consider (formal approval would come at the next ESA ministerial meeting, which I believe is next year) making significant contributions to the effort. This greatly reduces the costs to NASA.Under the proposed division of effort, ESA would provide:- the sample return orbiter- sample fetch rover- sample return transfer arm that would take the samples from the fetch rover and place them in the sample containerNASA would provide:- 2020 sample collection rover- sample return lander that would place the Mars ascent vehicle (MAV) and the fetch rover on the surface- the MAV- the sample capture, handling, and containment system on the return orbiter- Earth entry vehicle
3-Mars 2020, with sample caching capability, is being built.So all of those things really set the stage and provide a firm foundation for finally implementing the next stages, including returning samples.
A new rover set to visit Mars and collect the first ever samples from the planet to be brought back safely to Earth, will be designed in Stevenage by Airbus following the award of a £3.9 million contract by the European Space Agency (ESA).The sample fetch rover will retrieve samples left by NASA’s Mars 2020 rover and transfer them to an ascent vehicle. This will put them into orbit about the planet, where they will then be brought back to Earth by a separate spacecraft.
<snip>What happens next after 2020-MSR? Will there be more sampling missions? Will they follow the exact same routine or a different one? I'm curious if missions after (the first) MSR are being considered, although understandably 2020-MSR alone warrants enough attention.
Thanks to perseverance, I think in the next 10 years we might finally see MSR happen. A few thoughts occur to me, but this time not so much out of criticism but out of long-term goals...When MSR happens, it is going to be very dependent on where Mars 2020 grabs its collection; this is going to boil down to either Gusev Crater or the trio of sites around Jezero Crater. Very good science yields will result, that much will be sure. Downside: ultimately we're only going to get material from one region of Mars when, even on a glorified desert planet, there are different landscapes with diverging histories.What happens next after 2020-MSR? Will there be more sampling missions? Will they follow the exact same routine or a different one? I'm curious if missions after (the first) MSR are being considered, although understandably 2020-MSR alone warrants enough attention.