Author Topic: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Speculation  (Read 214587 times)

Online OneSpeed

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Speculation
« Reply #40 on: 04/28/2017 08:57 am »
Maybe the payload will simply be the reusable upper stage (plus a small token payload), giving as much propellant as possible to assist recovery.

Sure, but what will the modifications be to the stage to make it reusable? How will those modifications be made in time for the demo launch? What will the EDL profile be like, and how (and where) will it land?

Offline TomH

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Speculation
« Reply #41 on: 04/28/2017 09:02 am »
Plenty of propellant to ballast the stage for Merlin landing would count as payload too.

While true that extra prop would offset the Merlin's power on this lighter stage as it lands (ballasted like Grasshopper was) that extra mass will cause completely different dynamics for S2 reentry and whatever TPS they are using. Although later S2s may land with smaller engines, I would think it is important for S2 mass to be as close to nominal as possible to gather accurate data re. reentry phenomena.

Offline guckyfan

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Speculation
« Reply #42 on: 04/28/2017 10:50 am »
While true that extra prop would offset the Merlin's power on this lighter stage as it lands (ballasted like Grasshopper was) that extra mass will cause completely different dynamics for S2 reentry and whatever TPS they are using. Although later S2s may land with smaller engines, I would think it is important for S2 mass to be as close to nominal as possible to gather accurate data re. reentry phenomena.

I don't disagree. But I don't expect that this reentry and landing will be close to what they intend to do later. Actually I expect this to be a mostly standard Falcon upper stage and the reusable stage that will be in service some time will be Raptor  derived.

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Speculation
« Reply #43 on: 04/28/2017 11:10 am »
How much does Cygnus cost? I could see it being to both SpaceX and OA's interest to see if they could send one to the EML-2 halo (maybe with long-stay experiments that don't need to be returned to Earth).

I believe that Falcon-9 was one of the suggested replacements for Antares-I, so someone probably has blueprints for a F9/Cygnus payload adapter somewhere at Hawthorne.
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Offline rosbif73

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Speculation
« Reply #44 on: 04/28/2017 11:11 am »
How will those modifications be made in time for the demo launch?

How do we know they haven't been planning this for a (sufficiently) long time already?

Online OneSpeed

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Speculation
« Reply #45 on: 04/28/2017 11:34 am »
How will those modifications be made in time for the demo launch?

How do we know they haven't been planning this for a (sufficiently) long time already?

Because the mention of possible 'Hail Mary' attempts at second stage recovery imply that something risky could be attempted on the demo mission. Something that although not guaranteed to succeed, could return valuable data.
« Last Edit: 04/28/2017 11:59 am by OneSpeed »

Offline rakaydos

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Speculation
« Reply #46 on: 04/28/2017 03:41 pm »
Maybe the payload will simply be the reusable upper stage (plus a small token payload), giving as much propellant as possible to assist recovery.

Sure, but what will the modifications be to the stage to make it reusable? How will those modifications be made in time for the demo launch? What will the EDL profile be like, and how (and where) will it land?
Speculation is leaning toward an optional module, so a customer could either fly expendable or "dual manifest" with the recovery hardware. The module would share most of it's subsystems with the Dragon 2 capsule, but is still a new, untested spacecraft, possibly enough to qualify as a "Hail Mary" by elon's statements.

Online OneSpeed

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Speculation
« Reply #47 on: 04/28/2017 11:26 pm »
Speculation is leaning toward an optional module, so a customer could either fly expendable or "dual manifest" with the recovery hardware. The module would share most of it's subsystems with the Dragon 2 capsule, but is still a new, untested spacecraft, possibly enough to qualify as a "Hail Mary" by elon's statements.

Ok, so assuming that fairings will be used for the demo mission, what are the minimum modifications required to a Dragon 2 capsule, and how would it be mounted at each stage of the mission? Where would it land?

Offline sevenperforce

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Speculation
« Reply #48 on: 04/28/2017 11:31 pm »
Speculation is leaning toward an optional module, so a customer could either fly expendable or "dual manifest" with the recovery hardware. The module would share most of it's subsystems with the Dragon 2 capsule, but is still a new, untested spacecraft, possibly enough to qualify as a "Hail Mary" by elon's statements.

Ok, so assuming that fairings will be used for the demo mission, what are the minimum modifications required to a Dragon 2 capsule, and how would it be mounted at each stage of the mission? Where would it land?
In particular, how do you fit a payload to the ass-end of a Dragon 2 and still re-enter successfully?

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Speculation
« Reply #49 on: 04/30/2017 04:22 am »
Maybe the payload will simply be the reusable upper stage (plus a small token payload), giving as much propellant as possible to assist recovery.

Sure, but what will the modifications be to the stage to make it reusable? How will those modifications be made in time for the demo launch? What will the EDL profile be like, and how (and where) will it land?
I don't know the answers to any of those questions, but it's the stated goal of Elon Musk to try it on the inaugural flight.
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Offline rakaydos

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Speculation
« Reply #50 on: 04/30/2017 04:34 am »
Speculation is leaning toward an optional module, so a customer could either fly expendable or "dual manifest" with the recovery hardware. The module would share most of it's subsystems with the Dragon 2 capsule, but is still a new, untested spacecraft, possibly enough to qualify as a "Hail Mary" by elon's statements.

Ok, so assuming that fairings will be used for the demo mission, what are the minimum modifications required to a Dragon 2 capsule, and how would it be mounted at each stage of the mission? Where would it land?
Mounting a payload adapter to the Dragon trunk connection points, fitting superdracos, fuel tanks, and nessesary electronics into a short cylender instead of a conic capsule, and attaching that cylender to the dragon/fairing attachment point of stage 2.

Offline toren

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Speculation
« Reply #51 on: 04/30/2017 04:44 am »
Of course it will be a school bus. Elon has been talking how his fairing is large enough for a school bus.


Offline Saabstory88

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Speculation
« Reply #52 on: 04/30/2017 01:29 pm »
I mean if it really is supposed to be silly, why not demonstrate the long S2 coast and insert a Tesla into GSO?

Offline Johnnyhinbos

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Speculation
« Reply #53 on: 04/30/2017 02:32 pm »
Serious question - are you allowed to put something into orbit that deliberately has zero control authority (like a bus or a Tesla)? Seems kinda reckless. How stable is, say, GTO?
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Offline Eerie

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Speculation
« Reply #54 on: 04/30/2017 03:06 pm »
Serious question - are you allowed to put something into orbit that deliberately has zero control authority (like a bus or a Tesla)? Seems kinda reckless. How stable is, say, GTO?

You don't want to put a Tesla in a stable orbit around Earth, it will be just a pile of space junk waiting for a collision.

You could launch a Tesla into Solar orbit for PR. But you would be accused of polluting space anyway.

Offline mikelepage

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Speculation
« Reply #55 on: 04/30/2017 03:07 pm »
Serious question - are you allowed to put something into orbit that deliberately has zero control authority (like a bus or a Tesla)? Seems kinda reckless. How stable is, say, GTO?

Silly was the word, not reckless.

I'm assuming they are planning
1) for it to burn up on reentry (likely),
or
2) to send it into heliocentric orbit (after demonstrating GTO).  Less likely but why not?

Offline Eerie

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Speculation
« Reply #56 on: 04/30/2017 03:49 pm »
Serious question - are you allowed to put something into orbit that deliberately has zero control authority (like a bus or a Tesla)? Seems kinda reckless. How stable is, say, GTO?

Silly was the word, not reckless.

I'm assuming they are planning
1) for it to burn up on reentry (likely),
or
2) to send it into heliocentric orbit (after demonstrating GTO).  Less likely but why not?


They could crash a Tesla into the Moon. Several world records, right there.

Offline coal_burner

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Speculation
« Reply #57 on: 04/30/2017 07:23 pm »
they could launch a Tesla straight  INTO the sun.

it would be silly.
it would be the largest mass ever launched toward the sun.
it would create no new space junk.
Tesla could claim to have manufactured the fastest automobile ever produced.

is the falcon heavy even powerful enough to do that without the car taking years to slowly spiral into the sun?

Offline IanThePineapple

Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Speculation
« Reply #58 on: 04/30/2017 07:27 pm »
they could launch a Tesla straight  INTO the sun.

it would be silly.
it would be the largest mass ever launched toward the sun.
it would create no new space junk.
Tesla could claim to have manufactured the fastest automobile ever produced.

is the falcon heavy even powerful enough to do that without the car taking years to slowly spiral into the sun?

LOTS of gravity assists would be needed, and the car would need some sort of propulsion in order to do said assists

Offline envy887

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Speculation
« Reply #59 on: 04/30/2017 07:31 pm »
A silly payload on a heliocentric orbit is mutually exclusive with recovering the second stage.

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