Boeing's Starliner (CST-100) - Discussion Thread 6

[sdsds]

[...] What is a reasonable educated guess regarding how fast the tests can be diligently accomplished?

Although likely not how you meant the question, the answer is more organizational than technical. Boeing leadership has realized success of the Starliner program has a out-sized effect on the public's perception of Boeing's safety. So no matter how quickly the program could complete the test and analysis, the C-suite executives will be pushing for almost infinite reviews. :-(

[woods170]

Ever since Boeing's been eating all the losses they are making on Starliner. Well over $2B by now.

Which tells you everything you need to know about the prospects of Boeing "picking up the pace" or lifting an extra finger beyond inarguable contractual requirements. We might even expect another rumor campaign about them pulling out of CC completely to test the congressional waters given recent events.

Rumour campaign confirmed: https://spacenews.com/starliner-future-plans-still-in-limbo/

In an interview with Aviation Week published May 29, Kelly Ortberg, chief executive of Boeing, suggested the program was weighing down the company’s work in space.

“I think some of the challenges we’ve had with Starliner have overshadowed our space portfolio,” he said.

He indicated the future of Starliner and other Boeing space programs will depend on the outcome of budget debates in Congress in the months to come. “I think the manned space, commercial and NASA business is going to be dependent on where the budget goes and what the country wants to invest in those programs.”

[SoftwareDude]

Did the new news sound like the old news? Has there been progress? I couldn't tell.

[DanClemmensen]

Did the new news sound like the old news? Has there been progress? I couldn't tell.

Others have been commenting for some time that NASA had already actually begun purchasing the first three flights. This is the first time I recall actually hearing NASA confirm that. The NASA guys mentioned that NASA has given an ATP to Boeing for three flights.

They also provided some new details about the testing, I think. Specifically, they mentioned a new testing facility for the doghouse and they mentioned that new seals using new materials were being developed to address the helium leaks. We could have guessed or inferred these from earlier info, but this was more explicit.

[Tywin]

Question, will be a crew flight of the Starliner after the cargo flight in 2026?

[Vettedrmr]

Question, will be a crew flight of the Starliner after the cargo flight in 2026?

I want to see a good cargo flight completed before crew flight scheduling.  Otherwise we'll be in the same condition as before, with schedule vs. performance issues.

[DanClemmensen]

Question, will be a crew flight of the Starliner after the cargo flight in 2026?

I want to see a good cargo flight completed before crew flight scheduling.  Otherwise we'll be in the same condition as before, with schedule vs. performance issues.

Who pays, and how much? NASA does not need a high-cost, low performance cargo flight to ISS. They already have two fully-qualified CRS providers. NASA can (and should) require Boeing to complete another OFT at their own expense, and then complete a successful CFT, also at their own expense, because that is what Boeing contracted to do.

The problem, apparently, is that Boeing is reluctant to complete their fixed-price development commitment, so (apparently) NASA wants to find a way to keep Starliner going using some sort of creative funding scheme. In the mean time the NASA budget is being cut by 25%.

[Vettedrmr]

Who pays, and how much? NASA does not need a high-cost, low performance cargo flight to ISS.

The goal is a redundant crew delivery system.  NASA isn't going to put crew into a Starliner with its history without another test flight, Boeing is bleeding badly (although I think overall they're digging out of the corporate morass they created), and using the test flight to carry cargo, and paying Boeing some funds to provide that service, is the compromise our government has come up with to attempt to certify Starliner to carry crew so that the government's desire for dissimilar crew vehicles is satisfied.

[DanClemmensen]

Who pays, and how much? NASA does not need a high-cost, low performance cargo flight to ISS.

The goal is a redundant crew delivery system.  NASA isn't going to put crew into a Starliner with its history without another test flight, Boeing is bleeding badly (although I think overall they're digging out of the corporate morass they created), and using the test flight to carry cargo, and paying Boeing some funds to provide that service, is the compromise our government has come up with to attempt to certify Starliner to carry crew so that the government's desire for dissimilar crew vehicles is satisfied.

Our government has lots of competing goals. The current overriding goal is to reduce spending. Given this goal, I think the best approach is to look at cost-effectiveness and defund projects that are ineffective. The Starliner has not met the "desire" for dissimilar crew vehicles and cannot meet it at an effective cost.