Starship Users Guide

[gustavohigon]

If S tarship is going to have a "dettachable" fairing or cargo bay, I think that's going to bring back the debate about a LAS.

Also I wonder how they will manage the TPS on the joint line....

[livingjw]

If S tarship is going to have a "dettachable" fairing or cargo bay, I think that's going to bring back the debate about a LAS.

Also I wonder how they will manage the TPS on the joint line....

TPS are fragile and segmented. I don't believe they will be a problem if they do want to detach in flight.

John

[rcoppola]

I thought this was noteworthy:
"An extended payload volume is also available for payloads requiring up to 22 m of height."

So this and the way the payload gets integrated indicates (as others have noted) that the payload section of Starship will be separated from the propulsion section. Have we seen anything at Boca Chica with the current SNs that would be features involved in the mating and de-mating of these two pieces?

We haven't seen the Interface design for the Fairing to tank section yet. Maybe we'll get a sense of an initial interface design when/if they attach the current in production fairing to SN-3. (If not SN3, then SN4)

[soyuzu]

...and it's logical anyways for 100 tons LEO launch vehicle to be able to launch that amount to GTO...

Why is that logical? What Isp and dry mass are you assuming? I'm getting only ~1700m/s delta-v from LEO assuming 120mT dry mass and 3750 m/s Isp.

I get the same results. 100t to LEO is possible even with a 120t starship. Now 21t to GTO I can´t get it even with an 80t starship.
what is the delta V to a direct GTO as described?

Please note the LEO payload is actually

Up to 500-km circular orbit at up to 98.9-deg inclination

[OTV Booster]

A couple points of interest:

- “An extended payload volume is also available for payloads requiring up to 22 m of height.”

With a drawing showing a payload space of 17.24m that means they’re willing to add ~2.5 rings to the cargo bay. The first sign that SX is willing to customize variants.

- the chomper is still in play.

Phil

[TrueBlueWitt]

8 meter diameter works for LUVOIR A.. would it need the 22m length?

[oiorionsbelt]

8 meter diameter works for LUVOIR A.. would it need the 22m length?

[equiserre]

...and it's logical anyways for 100 tons LEO launch vehicle to be able to launch that amount to GTO...

Why is that logical? What Isp and dry mass are you assuming? I'm getting only ~1700m/s delta-v from LEO assuming 120mT dry mass and 3750 m/s Isp.

I get the same results. 100t to LEO is possible even with a 120t starship. Now 21t to GTO I can´t get it even with an 80t starship.
what is the delta V to a direct GTO as described?

Please note the LEO payload is actually

Up to 500-km circular orbit at up to 98.9-deg inclination

No problem with that. What I dont understand is the GTO 21t. Anybody know the delta v required for that GTO?

[gosnold]

8 meter diameter works for LUVOIR A.. would it need the 22m length?

LUVOIR with a monolithic, non-lightweighted mirror could be a life-saver for the budget of the NASA astrophysics division. You don't want a repeat of JWST.

[mmeijeri]

No problem with that. What I dont understand is the GTO 21t. Anybody know the delta v required for that GTO?

Since they're saying GTO - 1700m/s, I'd guess its 2300-2400m/s.

[Robotbeat]

...and it's logical anyways for 100 tons LEO launch vehicle to be able to launch that amount to GTO...

Why is that logical? What Isp and dry mass are you assuming? I'm getting only ~1700m/s delta-v from LEO assuming 120mT dry mass and 3750 m/s Isp.

I get the same results. 100t to LEO is possible even with a 120t starship. Now 21t to GTO I can´t get it even with an 80t starship.
what is the delta V to a direct GTO as described?

Please note the LEO payload is actually

Up to 500-km circular orbit at up to 98.9-deg inclination

No problem with that. What I dont understand is the GTO 21t. Anybody know the delta v required for that GTO?

the User’s Guide says 1800m/s to-go. So that GTO is approximately 2.5km/s from LEO.

[equiserre]

No problem with that. What I dont understand is the GTO 21t. Anybody know the delta v required for that GTO?

Since they're saying GTO - 1700m/s, I'd guess its 2300-2400m/s.

Plus how much from the ground? 9000?

[Robotbeat]

No problem with that. What I dont understand is the GTO 21t. Anybody know the delta v required for that GTO?

Since they're saying GTO - 1700m/s, I'd guess its 2300-2400m/s.

No. 1800m/s, not 1700.

[TrueBlueWitt]

8 meter diameter works for LUVOIR A.. would it need the 22m length?

That looks like LUVOIR B  which would be a piece of cake for starship. Do they explicitly say LUVOIR A fits? I don't remember.

[whitelancer64]

8 meter diameter works for LUVOIR A.. would it need the 22m length?

LUVOIR with a monolithic, non-lightweighted mirror could be a life-saver for the budget of the NASA astrophysics division. You don't want a repeat of JWST.

The mirror is not the problem with JWST. The mirror cost was something like 14% of the cost of JWST.

[haster123]

So the loads for starship are the *same* as F9? 

I assume this is just placeholder, until they actually do some test flight and update?  Interesting nonetheless

[Kazioo]

8 meter diameter works for LUVOIR A.. would it need the 22m length?

That looks like LUVOIR B  which would be a piece of cake for starship. Do they explicitly say LUVOIR A fits? I don't remember.

From The LUVOIR Final Report:

The final fairing dimensions are still being determined but SpaceX did conduct a preliminary analysis of a fairing whose shape was altered to fit LUVOIR-A (based on this study’s final concept models) and they reported that it was a viable option. Without modification, LUVOIR-B can fit into the currently plannedStarship fairing with room to spare as shown in Figure 10-9.

[rakaydos]

8 meter diameter works for LUVOIR A.. would it need the 22m length?

That looks like LUVOIR B  which would be a piece of cake for starship. Do they explicitly say LUVOIR A fits? I don't remember.

From The LUVOIR Final Report:

The final fairing dimensions are still being determined but SpaceX did conduct a preliminary analysis of a fairing whose shape was altered to fit LUVOIR-A (based on this study’s final concept models) and they reported that it was a viable option. Without modification, LUVOIR-B can fit into the currently plannedStarship fairing with room to spare as shown in Figure 10-9.

So the answer is "no, but we can work something up for you."

[Kazioo]

For comparison with the fairing of SLS Block 2.

Also an interesting quote about luvoir-B:

the SpaceX Starship fairing and the Blue Origin New Glenn fairing offer substantially more volume than the COTS 5-m faring. This opens up the option to launch LUVOIR-B partially deployed, substantially reducing its complexity, and therefore reducing its cost and risk.

[Robotbeat]

So the loads for starship are the *same* as F9? 

I assume this is just placeholder, until they actually do some test flight and update?  Interesting nonetheless

It's a design spec. They're designing the vehicle to fit the same load profile as F9.