Author Topic: Starship Users Guide  (Read 33550 times)

Re: Starship Users Guide
« Reply #20 on: 03/31/2020 03:30 pm »
If S tarship is going to have a "dettachable" fairing or cargo bay, I think that's going to bring back the debate about a LAS.

Also I wonder how they will manage the TPS on the joint line....

Offline livingjw

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2300
  • New World
  • Liked: 5566
  • Likes Given: 2759
Re: Starship Users Guide
« Reply #21 on: 03/31/2020 03:34 pm »
If S tarship is going to have a "dettachable" fairing or cargo bay, I think that's going to bring back the debate about a LAS.

Also I wonder how they will manage the TPS on the joint line....

TPS are fragile and segmented. I don't believe they will be a problem if they do want to detach in flight.

John

Offline rcoppola

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2327
  • USA
  • Liked: 1883
  • Likes Given: 839
Re: Starship Users Guide
« Reply #22 on: 03/31/2020 03:46 pm »
I thought this was noteworthy:
"An extended payload volume is also available for payloads requiring up to 22 m of height."

So this and the way the payload gets integrated indicates (as others have noted) that the payload section of Starship will be separated from the propulsion section. Have we seen anything at Boca Chica with the current SNs that would be features involved in the mating and de-mating of these two pieces?
We haven't seen the Interface design for the Fairing to tank section yet. Maybe we'll get a sense of an initial interface design when/if they attach the current in production fairing to SN-3. (If not SN3, then SN4)
Sail the oceans of space and set foot upon new lands!
http://www.stormsurgemedia.com

Online soyuzu

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 244
  • Liked: 351
  • Likes Given: 189
Re: Starship Users Guide
« Reply #23 on: 03/31/2020 04:05 pm »
...and it's logical anyways for 100 tons LEO launch vehicle to be able to launch that amount to GTO...

Why is that logical? What Isp and dry mass are you assuming? I'm getting only ~1700m/s delta-v from LEO assuming 120mT dry mass and 3750 m/s Isp.
I get the same results. 100t to LEO is possible even with a 120t starship. Now 21t to GTO I can´t get it even with an 80t starship.
what is the delta V to a direct GTO as described?

Please note the LEO payload is actually
Quote
Up to 500-km circular orbit at up to 98.9-deg inclination

Offline OTV Booster

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4463
  • Terra is my nation; currently Kansas
  • Liked: 3081
  • Likes Given: 5011
Re: Starship Users Guide
« Reply #24 on: 03/31/2020 04:25 pm »
A couple points of interest:

- “An extended payload volume is also available for payloads requiring up to 22 m of height.”

With a drawing showing a payload space of 17.24m that means they’re willing to add ~2.5 rings to the cargo bay. The first sign that SX is willing to customize variants.

- the chomper is still in play.

Phil
« Last Edit: 03/31/2020 04:56 pm by Chris Bergin »
We are on the cusp of revolutionary access to space. One hallmark of a revolution is that there is a disjuncture through which projections do not work. The thread must be picked up anew and the tapestry of history woven with a fresh pattern.

Online TrueBlueWitt

  • Space Nut
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2218
  • Mars in my lifetime!
  • DeWitt, MI
  • Liked: 281
  • Likes Given: 397
Re: Starship Users Guide
« Reply #25 on: 03/31/2020 04:41 pm »
8 meter diameter works for LUVOIR A.. would it need the 22m length?
« Last Edit: 03/31/2020 04:57 pm by Chris Bergin »

Offline oiorionsbelt

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1729
  • Liked: 1146
  • Likes Given: 2596
Re: Starship Users Guide
« Reply #26 on: 03/31/2020 05:01 pm »
8 meter diameter works for LUVOIR A.. would it need the 22m length?

Offline equiserre

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 171
  • Liked: 231
  • Likes Given: 30
Re: Starship Users Guide
« Reply #27 on: 03/31/2020 05:14 pm »
...and it's logical anyways for 100 tons LEO launch vehicle to be able to launch that amount to GTO...

Why is that logical? What Isp and dry mass are you assuming? I'm getting only ~1700m/s delta-v from LEO assuming 120mT dry mass and 3750 m/s Isp.
I get the same results. 100t to LEO is possible even with a 120t starship. Now 21t to GTO I can´t get it even with an 80t starship.
what is the delta V to a direct GTO as described?

Please note the LEO payload is actually
Quote
Up to 500-km circular orbit at up to 98.9-deg inclination
No problem with that. What I dont understand is the GTO 21t. Anybody know the delta v required for that GTO?

Offline gosnold

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 568
  • Liked: 235
  • Likes Given: 2033
Re: Starship Users Guide
« Reply #28 on: 03/31/2020 05:15 pm »
8 meter diameter works for LUVOIR A.. would it need the 22m length?

LUVOIR with a monolithic, non-lightweighted mirror could be a life-saver for the budget of the NASA astrophysics division. You don't want a repeat of JWST.

Online mmeijeri

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7768
  • Martijn Meijering
  • NL
  • Liked: 388
  • Likes Given: 796
Re: Starship Users Guide
« Reply #29 on: 03/31/2020 05:17 pm »
No problem with that. What I dont understand is the GTO 21t. Anybody know the delta v required for that GTO?

Since they're saying GTO - 1700m/s, I'd guess its 2300-2400m/s.
Pro-tip: you don't have to be a jerk if someone doesn't agree with your theories

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36416
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 20775
  • Likes Given: 10792
Re: Starship Users Guide
« Reply #30 on: 03/31/2020 05:17 pm »
...and it's logical anyways for 100 tons LEO launch vehicle to be able to launch that amount to GTO...

Why is that logical? What Isp and dry mass are you assuming? I'm getting only ~1700m/s delta-v from LEO assuming 120mT dry mass and 3750 m/s Isp.
I get the same results. 100t to LEO is possible even with a 120t starship. Now 21t to GTO I can´t get it even with an 80t starship.
what is the delta V to a direct GTO as described?

Please note the LEO payload is actually
Quote
Up to 500-km circular orbit at up to 98.9-deg inclination
No problem with that. What I dont understand is the GTO 21t. Anybody know the delta v required for that GTO?
the User’s Guide says 1800m/s to-go. So that GTO is approximately 2.5km/s from LEO.
« Last Edit: 03/31/2020 05:19 pm by Robotbeat »
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline equiserre

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 171
  • Liked: 231
  • Likes Given: 30
Re: Starship Users Guide
« Reply #31 on: 03/31/2020 05:18 pm »
No problem with that. What I dont understand is the GTO 21t. Anybody know the delta v required for that GTO?

Since they're saying GTO - 1700m/s, I'd guess its 2300-2400m/s.
Plus how much from the ground? 9000?

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36416
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 20775
  • Likes Given: 10792
Re: Starship Users Guide
« Reply #32 on: 03/31/2020 05:24 pm »
No problem with that. What I dont understand is the GTO 21t. Anybody know the delta v required for that GTO?

Since they're saying GTO - 1700m/s, I'd guess its 2300-2400m/s.
No. 1800m/s, not 1700.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Online TrueBlueWitt

  • Space Nut
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2218
  • Mars in my lifetime!
  • DeWitt, MI
  • Liked: 281
  • Likes Given: 397
Re: Starship Users Guide
« Reply #33 on: 03/31/2020 05:27 pm »
8 meter diameter works for LUVOIR A.. would it need the 22m length?

That looks like LUVOIR B  which would be a piece of cake for starship. Do they explicitly say LUVOIR A fits? I don't remember.

Offline whitelancer64

Re: Starship Users Guide
« Reply #34 on: 03/31/2020 05:34 pm »
8 meter diameter works for LUVOIR A.. would it need the 22m length?

LUVOIR with a monolithic, non-lightweighted mirror could be a life-saver for the budget of the NASA astrophysics division. You don't want a repeat of JWST.

The mirror is not the problem with JWST. The mirror cost was something like 14% of the cost of JWST.
« Last Edit: 03/31/2020 05:46 pm by whitelancer64 »
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Offline haster123

  • Member
  • Posts: 7
  • California
  • Liked: 5
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: Starship Users Guide
« Reply #35 on: 03/31/2020 05:36 pm »
So the loads for starship are the *same* as F9? 

I assume this is just placeholder, until they actually do some test flight and update?  Interesting nonetheless

Re: Starship Users Guide
« Reply #36 on: 03/31/2020 05:43 pm »
8 meter diameter works for LUVOIR A.. would it need the 22m length?

That looks like LUVOIR B  which would be a piece of cake for starship. Do they explicitly say LUVOIR A fits? I don't remember.

From The LUVOIR Final Report:

Quote
The final fairing dimensions are still being determined but SpaceX did conduct a preliminary analysis of a fairing whose shape was altered to fit LUVOIR-A (based on this study’s final concept models) and they reported that it was a viable option. Without modification, LUVOIR-B can fit into the currently plannedStarship fairing with room to spare as shown in Figure 10-9.


Offline rakaydos

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2805
  • Liked: 1857
  • Likes Given: 68
Re: Starship Users Guide
« Reply #37 on: 03/31/2020 05:46 pm »
8 meter diameter works for LUVOIR A.. would it need the 22m length?

That looks like LUVOIR B  which would be a piece of cake for starship. Do they explicitly say LUVOIR A fits? I don't remember.

From The LUVOIR Final Report:

Quote
The final fairing dimensions are still being determined but SpaceX did conduct a preliminary analysis of a fairing whose shape was altered to fit LUVOIR-A (based on this study’s final concept models) and they reported that it was a viable option. Without modification, LUVOIR-B can fit into the currently plannedStarship fairing with room to spare as shown in Figure 10-9.
So the answer is "no, but we can work something up for you."

Re: Starship Users Guide
« Reply #38 on: 03/31/2020 05:53 pm »
For comparison with the fairing of SLS Block 2.

Also an interesting quote about luvoir-B:

Quote
the SpaceX Starship fairing and the Blue Origin New Glenn fairing offer substantially more volume than the COTS 5-m faring. This opens up the option to launch LUVOIR-B partially deployed, substantially reducing its complexity, and therefore reducing its cost and risk.

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36416
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 20775
  • Likes Given: 10792
Re: Starship Users Guide
« Reply #39 on: 03/31/2020 06:01 pm »
So the loads for starship are the *same* as F9? 

I assume this is just placeholder, until they actually do some test flight and update?  Interesting nonetheless
It's a design spec. They're designing the vehicle to fit the same load profile as F9.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement SkyTale Software GmbH
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
1