Author Topic: NASA FY 2012 Budget Request for NASA Updates  (Read 53384 times)

Offline Cherokee43v6

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Re: NASA FY 2012 Budget Request for NASA Updates
« Reply #120 on: 04/12/2011 07:13 pm »
I was always under the impression that 'Cost-Plus' evolved due to government's inability to keep its fingers out of the development cookie-jar.  Namely the tendency to announce a 'system' in which the target of development never stopped moving.

Therefore, to my way of thinking, Fixed costs implies fixed requirements.  You give me X end result for Y dollars.  Cost-plus implies that there isn't a design so much as a concept that needs developed. 

Both types of contracting have their place and their uses.  The big problem that I see is that both sides have gotten way too used to the 'moving target' mentality with DoD and NASA contracts and thus, the 'cost plus' mentality has expanded to areas it should never have been.
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Offline Namechange User

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Re: NASA FY 2012 Budget Request for NASA Updates
« Reply #121 on: 04/12/2011 07:18 pm »
I was always under the impression that 'Cost-Plus' evolved due to government's inability to keep its fingers out of the development cookie-jar.  Namely the tendency to announce a 'system' in which the target of development never stopped moving.

Therefore, to my way of thinking, Fixed costs implies fixed requirements.  You give me X end result for Y dollars.  Cost-plus implies that there isn't a design so much as a concept that needs developed. 

Both types of contracting have their place and their uses.  The big problem that I see is that both sides have gotten way too used to the 'moving target' mentality with DoD and NASA contracts and thus, the 'cost plus' mentality has expanded to areas it should never have been.

No.  It's a contracting arrangement, that's all.  It is not tied to the development and/or operations methodology (i.e. how it will be done).  But, how it is done (i.e. managed and executed) can have a major influence on the ultimate cost, regardless if the arrangement is fixed or cost-plus. 
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Offline fotoguzzi

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Re: NASA FY 2012 Budget Request for NASA Updates
« Reply #122 on: 04/12/2011 10:52 pm »
I had thought that much of the stasis after the 2010 Appropriations bill was that Constellation work could not cease until there was a 2010 budget. If I read correctly, there has been a 2010 budget for about eighteen hours (or did they just skip 2010?).

But from todays posts it would seem that transformation from Constellation to SLS is more of a continuum--that parts of the transformation have occurred since October 2010 and other parts have not really occurred yet.

If I recall correctly, the studies and interim reports were specified in the October 2010 bill, and the studies are ongoing. So, I wonder what was supposed to have been happening between October 2010 and now beside studies and zombie Constellation contracts?

Modify: change word
« Last Edit: 04/12/2011 10:56 pm by fotoguzzi »
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Offline yg1968

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Re: NASA FY 2012 Budget Request for NASA Updates
« Reply #123 on: 04/13/2011 12:02 am »
The vote on the budget deal for the full-year FY 2011 CR (which ends on September 30, 2011) will be on Thursday. The budget deal fixes the Constellation language that was inserted in the FY2010 Appropriation bill (which was passed in January 2010). 

The problem is well explained in this December 1, 2010 GAO Study:
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11216t.pdf
« Last Edit: 04/13/2011 01:54 am by yg1968 »

Offline Prober

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Re: NASA FY 2012 Budget Request for NASA Updates
« Reply #124 on: 04/16/2011 04:35 am »
I watched the whole hearings and found that NASA is in more trouble than I first thought.  IMHO, throwing money at the problem will not fix it.  Only management changes will do.

It became very clear to me that Senator Hutchison's Comments were right on the money.

this one became very clear to me....
* To this day, NASA is refusing to allow [Orion] to move forward.
"Orion-based" or "Orion/MPCV" was the basis for the new MPCV.   The point the Senator was trying to get at was the waste of funds and funds not spent on the project.   Turns out the new plan is to just take some of the technology (not listing what parts) and apply them to this new MPCV design.   

I read most of the comments here as well and most missed a couple of words "Deep Space".   The new MPCV is going to be a "deep Space" design.  IMHO, most of the work on Orion will be shelfed.  Would the Orion crew module work for a Deep space mission to mars?   The heavy lift will use shuttle technology for 70 tons at first.

IMHO don't think we've seen the new designs for these craft.   

I’ve seen some snakes in my time but Bolden must now go to one of the top on my list.


The lead Senator asked him about the cost overruns on the Hubble telescope replacement.   Wanted to know why for FY011 and FY012 half a billion more would be need to fix the cost overruns, what is being done?

Bolden: we are like are doing a study.    Ok, this is mid April of FY011 and you have no answer as to the fix or how much more the project will cost?  We are 8 months into the FY and he has no answers?

 One of my fav. Lines..
Mr Bolden: My plan is next week to give you "the plan for the plan".

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Offline Robotbeat

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Re: NASA FY 2012 Budget Request for NASA Updates
« Reply #125 on: 04/16/2011 04:49 am »
MPCV is just a rebranded Orion, as far as I'm aware.
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Offline Downix

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Re: NASA FY 2012 Budget Request for NASA Updates
« Reply #126 on: 04/16/2011 05:08 am »
MPCV is just a rebranded Orion, as far as I'm aware.
Repurposed, so I understand. 
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Offline Danderman

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Re: NASA FY 2012 Budget Request for NASA Updates
« Reply #127 on: 05/18/2011 05:16 am »
An alert from the Space Frontier Foundation:

"The U.S. House of Representatives' Appropriations Subcommittee on Commerce, Justice, Science, and Related Agencies has asked your Member of Congress for their input on what programs in NASA (and other agencies) should receive increased or decreased funding in FY2012. This gives you an opportunity to have your Representative support vital NASA initiatives like Commercial Crew and Space Technology."

Call your Representatives' office in Washington, D.C. ASAP

(before noon on Friday, May 20th)

Ask to speak to the staff person who handles "NASA appropriations" and ask that staffer to take two actions:

1. Submit a request to the House Appropriations Committee recommending that the Committee fully fund NASA's Commercial Crew program in FY2012 at the President's requested level of $850 million.

2. Submit a request to the same Committee recommending that the Committee fully fund NASA's Space Technology (including Exploration Technology) program in FY2012 at the requested level of $1.024 billion. 

To make their job easier, tell the staffer they may contact Congressman Dana Rohrabacher's or Zoe Lofgren's office for a copy of the specific language to use for these two funding requests.

Additional Information:
 
If you need arguments as to why Commercial Crew and Space Technology deserve full funding, here are the draft descriptions from the appropriations request language:

NASA Commercial Crew Program - When the Space Shuttle retires this summer, America will be wholly dependent on Russia to launch our astronauts to the Space Station, sending nearly $400 million overseas each year. Commercial Crew will competitively fund the fastest-possible development of safe and affordable made-in-America vehicles, creating thousands of American jobs and enabling full use of the Space Station. We strongly support full funding of the requested level of $850,000,000 in FY2012. 

NASA Space Technology Program (STP) - America must invest in new technology to stay ahead of foreign space powers like Russia and China. NASA's Space Technology Program, which now includes Exploration Technology Development and Demonstration (ETDD), is NASA's primary cutting edge R&D initiative. STP/ETDD funding enables NASA's research centers and America's small businesses and innovators to assure America's leadership in space. We support funding at the requested level of $1,024,200,000.
  "

A note from me: whenever contacting a congressional office, first off, make sure you are their constituent, and secondly, letters (even faxes) are better than phone calls.


Offline Prober

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Re: NASA FY 2012 Budget Request for NASA Updates
« Reply #128 on: 05/18/2011 05:53 pm »
An alert from the Space Frontier Foundation:

"The U.S. House of Representatives' Appropriations Subcommittee on Commerce, Justice, Science, and Related Agencies has asked your Member of Congress for their input on what programs in NASA (and other agencies) should receive increased or decreased funding in FY2012. This gives you an opportunity to have your Representative support vital NASA initiatives like Commercial Crew and Space Technology."

Call your Representatives' office in Washington, D.C. ASAP

(before noon on Friday, May 20th)

Ask to speak to the staff person who handles "NASA appropriations" and ask that staffer to take two actions:

1. Submit a request to the House Appropriations Committee recommending that the Committee fully fund NASA's Commercial Crew program in FY2012 at the President's requested level of $850 million.

2. Submit a request to the same Committee recommending that the Committee fully fund NASA's Space Technology (including Exploration Technology) program in FY2012 at the requested level of $1.024 billion. 

To make their job easier, tell the staffer they may contact Congressman Dana Rohrabacher's or Zoe Lofgren's office for a copy of the specific language to use for these two funding requests.

Additional Information:
 
If you need arguments as to why Commercial Crew and Space Technology deserve full funding, here are the draft descriptions from the appropriations request language:

NASA Commercial Crew Program - When the Space Shuttle retires this summer, America will be wholly dependent on Russia to launch our astronauts to the Space Station, sending nearly $400 million overseas each year. Commercial Crew will competitively fund the fastest-possible development of safe and affordable made-in-America vehicles, creating thousands of American jobs and enabling full use of the Space Station. We strongly support full funding of the requested level of $850,000,000 in FY2012. 

NASA Space Technology Program (STP) - America must invest in new technology to stay ahead of foreign space powers like Russia and China. NASA's Space Technology Program, which now includes Exploration Technology Development and Demonstration (ETDD), is NASA's primary cutting edge R&D initiative. STP/ETDD funding enables NASA's research centers and America's small businesses and innovators to assure America's leadership in space. We support funding at the requested level of $1,024,200,000.
  "

A note from me: whenever contacting a congressional office, first off, make sure you are their constituent, and secondly, letters (even faxes) are better than phone calls.



How about full disclosure of FY011.  ATM, I'm not impresed.
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Offline Prober

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Re: NASA FY 2012 Budget Request for NASA Updates
« Reply #129 on: 07/14/2011 11:11 pm »
this should embed...if u don't like it chris then remove it
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2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant..." --Isoroku Yamamoto

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