Author Topic: Kathy Lueders hired as General Manager at Starbase  (Read 12884 times)

Offline InterestedEngineer

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Re: Kathy Lueders hired as General Manager at Starbase
« Reply #20 on: 05/16/2023 04:57 am »
So what will she be working on?

Crew stuff for Starship?

Offline Targeteer

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Re: Kathy Lueders hired as General Manager at Starbase
« Reply #21 on: 05/16/2023 11:32 am »
https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1658127208932679681

Did she avoid revolving door restrictions by not working in the Space X Crew program?
« Last Edit: 05/17/2023 02:48 am by zubenelgenubi »
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Offline Herb Schaltegger

Re: Kathy Lueders hired as General Manager at Starbase
« Reply #22 on: 05/16/2023 02:02 pm »
So what will she be working on?

Crew stuff for Starship?

“Crew stuff” is pretty broad - I suspect her role will be broad and rather fuzzily-defined. She’ll have insight and input into everything from overall FMLA and statistical analysis efforts which will ultimately result in human-rating Starship for HLS; human-factors engineering for crew ingress/egress; accommodations and user interfaces; ECLSS design/reliability; etc.

Ex-astros have been part of private companies’ spacecraft design efforts in similar roles since at least Boeing’s work on Space Station Freedom/ISS in the late 80’s. There were one or two with offices in Huntsville when I was there decades ago, though they were rarely actually required to be on-site.

One wonders how much time she will actually spend in Boca Chica but as her work will be predominately offering insight and observation based on her career experience and knowledge, being in an air conditioned building in southeast Texas or wandering around the factory site with a hard hat are not likely to be the best uses of her time anyway.
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Offline woods170

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Re: Kathy Lueders hired as General Manager at Starbase
« Reply #23 on: 05/16/2023 02:10 pm »
Lueders is joining SpaceX, will report to Shotwell.

<snipped the Twitter link>

Did she avoid revolving door restrictions by not working in the Space X Crew program?

Correct.
She avoided revolving door restrictions in the same way Gerst did: at SpaceX they work on programs with no direct ties to their former jobs at NASA.

At NASA gerst was the top boss of all of HEOMD, with emphasis on SLS, Orion deep space exploration. At SpaceX he is the guy in charge of Build and Flight Reliability for CRS and CCP, which has nothing to do with SLS, Orion or the return to the Moon.

Kathy Lueders was top boss of Space Operations Mission Directorate and program manager of CCP (IOW: cargo and crew missions to the ISS). At SpaceX she will be the new boss of Starship vehicle development at Starbase. No ties with either CCP or Space Operations Mission Directorate because Starship is not involved in ISS operations.
« Last Edit: 05/16/2023 02:15 pm by woods170 »

Offline deadman1204

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Re: Kathy Lueders hired as General Manager at Starbase
« Reply #24 on: 05/16/2023 02:21 pm »
That revolving door keeps on swinging.

Everyone likes spaceX, but if this she had helped blue origin and then gone to work there, everyone would be crying foul.

Note: I don't mean to impune Luder's credentials or the work she has done. I think she made the right calls while working for NASA. However, this just feels a bit odd.
« Last Edit: 05/16/2023 02:21 pm by deadman1204 »

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Kathy Lueders hired as General Manager at Starbase
« Reply #25 on: 05/16/2023 02:42 pm »
That revolving door keeps on swinging.

Everyone likes spaceX, but if this she had helped blue origin and then gone to work there, everyone would be crying foul.

Note: I don't mean to impune Luder's credentials or the work she has done. I think she made the right calls while working for NASA. However, this just feels a bit odd.
SpaceX is a much larger employer than Blue. SpaceX employs nearly as many people as there are civil servants at NASA, and it has flown more crew to space than any US company since Shuttle retired and the only US company to fly people to orbit at all since Shuttle. It’s not odd, it’s statistically more likely to be SpaceX than any other company involved in human spaceflight. They’re the preeminent human spaceflight company in the world.

I don’t think people, other than a handful of trolls, would cry foul if she would’ve ended up at Blue, and I don’t think the fictional response of some trolls is a good enough reason to troll oneself.

As far as the contract for HLS, all the GAO and lawsuit scrutiny kind of did a favor to Kathy as now it has passed the most detailed review and found to be solid.
« Last Edit: 05/16/2023 02:55 pm by Robotbeat »
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Offline Oersted

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Re: Kathy Lueders hired as General Manager at Starbase
« Reply #26 on: 05/16/2023 05:34 pm »
Doesn't the US have revolving door rules?

I love KL for choosing Starship for the Moon mission, but it does look a bit weird to go directly to SpaceX after giving it a huge contract. 
« Last Edit: 05/16/2023 05:34 pm by Oersted »

Offline mn

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Re: Kathy Lueders hired as General Manager at Starbase
« Reply #27 on: 05/16/2023 06:13 pm »
<snip>
Quote
Scoop – @KathyLueders, former top NASA human spaceflight official, joined SpaceX, according to CNBC sources.

Lueders is based at Starbase in Texas and will report directly to president & COO Gwynne Shotwell:

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/15/elon-musks-spacex-hires-former-nasa-official-kathy-lueders.html

Heh, I predicted Lueders will joined SpaceX when she retired from NASA.

Wonder how long before Kathy Lueders join Bill Gerstenmaier at SpaceX?

Thinking about it. It seems Lueders probably have a deal with SpaceX before the retirement announcement. Since the news of her joining SpaceX is only 15 days after her retirement from NASA.  ;)

There were many days between the announcement and her actual retirement.

Offline mn

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Re: Kathy Lueders hired as General Manager at Starbase
« Reply #28 on: 05/16/2023 06:16 pm »
Doesn't the US have revolving door rules?

I love KL for choosing Starship for the Moon mission, but it does look a bit weird to go directly to SpaceX after giving it a huge contract.

https://www.justice.gov/jmd/leaving-government

Quote
The post-government employment statute, 18 U.S.C. § 207, does not prohibit former Federal employees from working for any particular employer (although other authorities may limit permissible compensation), but it does restrict what former Federal employees can do for their new employers

Edit to add: The CRS contract was awarded nearly 15 years ago, (hard to believe it was that long).
« Last Edit: 05/16/2023 06:21 pm by mn »

Offline VaBlue

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Re: Kathy Lueders hired as General Manager at Starbase
« Reply #29 on: 05/16/2023 06:18 pm »
Doesn't the US have revolving door rules?

Yes, there are such rules involving ethics.  And honestly, I don't know how people get around them!  Technically, she cannot work for SpaceX in any area where she 'determined' any financial award to/for SpaceX for 1 year after retirement.  (The actual wording may be slightly different...)  So if she's managing the Starship program, she would be in some type of violation pretty clearly.  But if she's managing Starbase, and has no operational authority over Starship, she may well be fine.  I suspect there is some form of work rule in place so that she is technically within the rule of law.  I mean, isn't that the reason corporate lawyers have a job, anyway?

Offline mn

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Re: Kathy Lueders hired as General Manager at Starbase
« Reply #30 on: 05/16/2023 06:30 pm »
Doesn't the US have revolving door rules?

Yes, there are such rules involving ethics.  And honestly, I don't know how people get around them!  Technically, she cannot work for SpaceX in any area where she 'determined' any financial award to/for SpaceX for 1 year after retirement.  (The actual wording may be slightly different...)  So if she's managing the Starship program, she would be in some type of violation pretty clearly.  But if she's managing Starbase, and has no operational authority over Starship, she may well be fine.  I suspect there is some form of work rule in place so that she is technically within the rule of law.  I mean, isn't that the reason corporate lawyers have a job, anyway?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/41/2104

Since being moved to HEO, did she have any involvement in any contracts to SpaceX?

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Kathy Lueders hired as General Manager at Starbase
« Reply #31 on: 05/16/2023 08:21 pm »
Doesn't the US have revolving door rules?

Yes, there are such rules involving ethics.  And honestly, I don't know how people get around them!  Technically, she cannot work for SpaceX in any area where she 'determined' any financial award to/for SpaceX for 1 year after retirement.  (The actual wording may be slightly different...)  So if she's managing the Starship program, she would be in some type of violation pretty clearly.  But if she's managing Starbase, and has no operational authority over Starship, she may well be fine.  I suspect there is some form of work rule in place so that she is technically within the rule of law.  I mean, isn't that the reason corporate lawyers have a job, anyway?
She was moved to a different part of NASA when HEOMD was split, and that was about a year and a half ago. She was basically demoted at that time, more than a year ago. And that also opened up an opportunity now for her to work at Starbase.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Oersted

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Re: Kathy Lueders hired as General Manager at Starbase
« Reply #32 on: 05/16/2023 10:19 pm »
Ok, got it, thanks!

Offline M.E.T.

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Re: Kathy Lueders hired as General Manager at Starbase
« Reply #33 on: 05/17/2023 04:44 pm »
I sometimes get really frustrated. We are at a fork in the road for the human species. A “once the lifetime of a civilization” inflection point. Why can people not see that?

1000 years from now our descendents on Mars or around Alpha Centauri won’t care about some ancient revolving door rule, or a long forgotten environmental complaint, or social media dispute from the early 21st century.

They will just remember that Starship opened the heavens up for humanity.

Heck, if the Pope can help move the Starship program forward, I say find a way to get him out of the Vatican and onto Starbase pronto. Revolving door policies or not.

Offline deadman1204

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Re: Kathy Lueders hired as General Manager at Starbase
« Reply #34 on: 05/17/2023 09:08 pm »
I sometimes get really frustrated. We are at a fork in the road for the human species. A “once the lifetime of a civilization” inflection point. Why can people not see that?

1000 years from now our descendents on Mars or around Alpha Centauri won’t care about some ancient revolving door rule, or a long forgotten environmental complaint, or social media dispute from the early 21st century.

They will just remember that Starship opened the heavens up for humanity.

Heck, if the Pope can help move the Starship program forward, I say find a way to get him out of the Vatican and onto Starbase pronto. Revolving door policies or not.
Being at an important point makes it MORE important to do things correctly. Because what happens now will impact future things. If we cut corners now, that will set the precedent for the future for example.

The ends never justify the means.

Offline Herb Schaltegger

Re: Kathy Lueders hired as General Manager at Starbase
« Reply #35 on: 05/17/2023 09:12 pm »
I sometimes get really frustrated. We are at a fork in the road for the human species. A “once the lifetime of a civilization” inflection point. Why can people not see that?

1000 years from now our descendents on Mars or around Alpha Centauri won’t care about some ancient revolving door rule, or a long forgotten environmental complaint, or social media dispute from the early 21st century.

They will just remember that Starship opened the heavens up for humanity.

Heck, if the Pope can help move the Starship program forward, I say find a way to get him out of the Vatican and onto Starbase pronto. Revolving door policies or not.
Being at an important point makes it MORE important to do things correctly. Because what happens now will impact future things. If we cut corners now, that will set the precedent for the future for example.

The ends never justify the means.

Besides which, revolving-door statutes, rules and regulations did not spring forth fully-formed from the foreheads of some busybodies in Washington for no good reason. They exist because historically when they did not, there were blatant conflicts of interest in all phases of government contracting and contracts administration. These rules and standards exist because human nature is what it is, and access to power and money tends to corruption in their absence.
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Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Kathy Lueders hired as General Manager at Starbase
« Reply #36 on: 05/17/2023 09:48 pm »
I don’t think someone like Kathy Leuders would be dumb enough to not have the legality of this figured out before signing on.

There are worker protections in place, too, that protect the right of people to find employment in their field. NASA doesn’t make you, and can’t make you, sign a non-compete agreement that would prevent her from seeking employment in her field once she’s no longer on the payroll.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Kathy Lueders hired as General Manager at Starbase
« Reply #37 on: 05/17/2023 11:17 pm »
Kathy Lueders was top boss of Space Operations Mission Directorate and program manager of CCP (IOW: cargo and crew missions to the ISS). At SpaceX she will be the new boss of Starship vehicle development at Starbase. No ties with either CCP or Space Operations Mission Directorate because Starship is not involved in ISS operations.

If I'm understanding correctly, this seems pretty wild.  Gerst was given what seems a small organization and I've been impressed with what he has done -- the proof is in the pudding.  But boss of Starship vehicle development sounds like it is head of a much larger organization.  What hardware has she developed in the past?  I'm genuinely curious and a little skeptical of NASA bureaucrat types, not really knowing much about her specifically.  Is she that good?
« Last Edit: 05/17/2023 11:24 pm by RedLineTrain »

Offline ulm_atms

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Re: Kathy Lueders hired as General Manager at Starbase
« Reply #38 on: 05/17/2023 11:29 pm »
Kathy Lueders was top boss of Space Operations Mission Directorate and program manager of CCP (IOW: cargo and crew missions to the ISS). At SpaceX she will be the new boss of Starship vehicle development at Starbase. No ties with either CCP or Space Operations Mission Directorate because Starship is not involved in ISS operations.

If I'm understanding correctly, this seems pretty wild.  Gerst was given what seems a small organization and I've been impressed with what he has done -- the proof is in the pudding.  But boss of Starship vehicle development sounds like it is head of a much larger organization.  What hardware has she developed in the past?  I'm genuinely curious and a little skeptical of NASA bureaucrat types, not really knowing much about her specifically.  Is she that good?
She is managing...not developing.  Those are two totally different skills.  IMO this is way more about NASA knowledge/connections more then anything else.  She knows the bureaucracy better then most.

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Kathy Lueders hired as General Manager at Starbase
« Reply #39 on: 05/17/2023 11:53 pm »
She is managing...not developing.  Those are two totally different skills.  IMO this is way more about NASA knowledge/connections more then anything else.  She knows the bureaucracy better then most.

It seemed to me that the brilliance of the Gerst hire was that it was not for his NASA knowledge/connections, at least directly.  He was not hired to a cushy VP job where he could focus on his golf game.  Rather, he was hired to a critical function where he was expected to perform in a SpaceX non-bureaucratic fashion.

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