Author Topic: SpaceX lease SLC-6  (Read 43644 times)

Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX lease SLC-6
« Reply #160 on: 08/15/2023 12:03 am »
I'd assume if/when SpaceX eventually retires Falcon can converts SLC-6 to Starship, they'd get rid of the MSS's.
But, maybe they'd upgrade them to be taller so they can process payloads vertically on the pad (if feasible/practical).
It wouldn't be the first time that was done for a tall LV.

That didn't install payloads

Offline Lobo

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Re: SpaceX lease SLC-6
« Reply #161 on: 08/15/2023 05:57 pm »
I'd assume if/when SpaceX eventually retires Falcon can converts SLC-6 to Starship, they'd get rid of the MSS's.
But, maybe they'd upgrade them to be taller so they can process payloads vertically on the pad (if feasible/practical).
It wouldn't be the first time that was done for a tall LV.

That didn't install payloads

Jim,
Yes, good point.  I stated that poorly.   I meant a it wouldn't be the first time a MSS was used for a tall LV like Starship...so perhaps it could again for Starship to vertically integrate payloads, if it were desirable/practical to modify the existing MSS's at SLC-6 to do that for Starship at some later time when Falcon is retired.  Since the structures and rail system, etc is already there.

Sorry for stating that poorly. 


Offline dglow

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Re: SpaceX lease SLC-6
« Reply #162 on: 08/15/2023 06:42 pm »
I don’t know that anyone is eager to revive the SSME flame trench at SLC-6. That trench was nothing but a thorn in the USAF’s side amidst their prep to launch west coast shuttles. The problems are widely-documented, and include dangerous amounts of trapped hydrogen, in part due to its retrofitted geometry. Had Challenger not ultimately ended all shuttle launches from Vandenberg, the SSME trench (and numerous other construction issues) likely would have delayed them.

Can you point at some of that documentation?
(Something more than a quick Google search throws up)

Here you go:

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2023/04/spacex-slc-6-takeover/
from our very own NSF writers! solid history overview, briefly mentions troubles/delays

https://www.globalsecurity.org/space/systems/sts_slc-6.htm
great writeup, largely through the lens of reconnaissance sats’ launch requirements, very thorough list of sources

https://www.space.com/10644-california-launch-pad-history-shuttles-rockets.html
doesn’t mention pad issues but includes AF-NASA politics and Challenger impact

https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Vandenberg_AFB_Space_Launch_Complex_6
a straightforward list of issues right in the middle of the article

http://www.capcomespace.net/dossiers/espace_US/shuttle/vandenberg/SLC6_1979.htm
very thorough, from MOL through Delta with great historical imagery; in French, but auto-translates to English reasonably well

https://www.spaceflighthistories.com/post/vandenberg-space-shuttle
another history

https://www.thespacereview.com/article/2349/1%0A
a waste of words investigates (to no conclusion) whether SLC-6’s difficulties are the result of a Native American curse (!) – recommend ignore tangential, does not inform this immediate discussion


« Last Edit: 08/16/2023 03:47 am by dglow »

Offline dglow

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Re: SpaceX lease SLC-6
« Reply #163 on: 08/15/2023 06:59 pm »
I don’t know that anyone is eager to revive the SSME flame trench at SLC-6. That trench was nothing but a thorn in the USAF’s side amidst their prep to launch west coast shuttles. The problems are widely-documented, and include dangerous amounts of trapped hydrogen, in part due to its retrofitted geometry. Had Challenger not ultimately ended all shuttle launches from Vandenberg, the SSME trench (and numerous other construction issues) likely would have delayed them.
Problem had been solved by 1987 through the use of a Steam Inerting System (SIS) which would have injected hot steam into the SSME flame trench to inert it ahead of ignition.

Thank you. As that document states: “the two-year feasibility and development test program completed in December 1987” – well after the planned mid-‘86 inaugural launch from Vandenberg.

Offline Herb Schaltegger

Re: SpaceX lease SLC-6
« Reply #164 on: 08/15/2023 09:13 pm »

https://www.thespacereview.com/article/2349/1%0A
a waste of words, investigating (to no conclusion) whether SLC-6 difficulties are the result of a Native American curse (!) – recommend ignore


You're really mischaracterizing that last link. Nothing Dwayne Day writes with regard to historical spaceflight, especially in connection with reconnaissance activities, is a "waste of words." The primary focus of this particular piece isn't SLC-6 as such, it's entirely an aside:

As Dr. Day writes:

Quote
What prompted this long-winded explanation of my only partially-successful research effort on “the curse of Slick-6” was a new review of the book Blue Sky Metropolis by Roger Eardley-Pryor that appeared last month on H Net, the Humanities and Social Sciences Online resource. Eardley-Pryor referred to my essay as “overly reliant upon military sources,” which is a fair criticism. But it is also something that I acknowledged in the essay itself when I stated that doing research that crosses such major divides is challenging: a military historian is going to have a hard time finding cultural sources, and a cultural historian is going to have a hard time finding military sources.
Ad astra per aspirin ...

Offline dglow

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Re: SpaceX lease SLC-6
« Reply #165 on: 08/15/2023 09:58 pm »

https://www.thespacereview.com/article/2349/1%0A
a waste of words, investigating (to no conclusion) whether SLC-6 difficulties are the result of a Native American curse (!) – recommend ignore


You're really mischaracterizing that last link. Nothing Dwayne Day writes with regard to historical spaceflight, especially in connection with reconnaissance activities, is a "waste of words." The primary focus of this particular piece isn't SLC-6 as such, it's entirely an aside:

As Dr. Day writes:

Quote
What prompted this long-winded explanation of my only partially-successful research effort on “the curse of Slick-6” was a new review of the book Blue Sky Metropolis by Roger Eardley-Pryor that appeared last month on H Net, the Humanities and Social Sciences Online resource. Eardley-Pryor referred to my essay as “overly reliant upon military sources,” which is a fair criticism. But it is also something that I acknowledged in the essay itself when I stated that doing research that crosses such major divides is challenging: a military historian is going to have a hard time finding cultural sources, and a cultural historian is going to have a hard time finding military sources.

That’s fine, though this article was hardly about reconnaissance activities, hence my take. My opinion is just that, and represented as nothing more. Perhaps I should have left this one off the list – if unable to say something nice, best say nothing at all.

Offline Herb Schaltegger

Re: SpaceX lease SLC-6
« Reply #166 on: 08/15/2023 10:06 pm »

https://www.thespacereview.com/article/2349/1%0A
a waste of words, investigating (to no conclusion) whether SLC-6 difficulties are the result of a Native American curse (!) – recommend ignore


You're really mischaracterizing that last link. Nothing Dwayne Day writes with regard to historical spaceflight, especially in connection with reconnaissance activities, is a "waste of words." The primary focus of this particular piece isn't SLC-6 as such, it's entirely an aside:

As Dr. Day writes:

Quote
What prompted this long-winded explanation of my only partially-successful research effort on “the curse of Slick-6” was a new review of the book Blue Sky Metropolis by Roger Eardley-Pryor that appeared last month on H Net, the Humanities and Social Sciences Online resource. Eardley-Pryor referred to my essay as “overly reliant upon military sources,” which is a fair criticism. But it is also something that I acknowledged in the essay itself when I stated that doing research that crosses such major divides is challenging: a military historian is going to have a hard time finding cultural sources, and a cultural historian is going to have a hard time finding military sources.

That’s fine, though this article was hardly about reconnaissance activities, hence my take. My opinion is just that, and represented as nothing more. Perhaps I should have left this one off the list – if unable to say something nice, best say nothing at all.

The book in question (referred to in my quoted paragraph from the article) would be a better source of practical and pragmatic information:

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sky-Metropolis-Aerospace-California/dp/0873282493
Ad astra per aspirin ...

Offline dglow

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Re: SpaceX lease SLC-6
« Reply #167 on: 08/16/2023 03:42 am »
The book in question (referred to in my quoted paragraph from the article) would be a better source of practical and pragmatic information:

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sky-Metropolis-Aerospace-California/dp/0873282493

A series of essays about the impact of aerospace on SoCal? Alright and thank you. Are there specific pieces you recommend, or any that speak to SLC-6 in particular?

Offline octavo

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Re: SpaceX lease SLC-6
« Reply #168 on: 08/16/2023 11:19 am »
Problem had been solved by 1987 through the use of a Steam Inerting System (SIS) which would have injected hot steam into the SSME flame trench to inert it ahead of ignition.

Nice to see dry humour persisted in NASA documents that long

Quote
It was necessary that the solution lend itself to evaluation and verification by subscale testing because of the cost and risk of full-scale experiments with the shuttle or associated flight hardware.

Re: SpaceX lease SLC-6
« Reply #169 on: 02/06/2024 08:02 am »
SpaceX is reconfiguring now. Does the mobile launch vertical integration gantry tower belong to SpaceX. If yes we can launch ppe/halo  from here as delta IV Heavy 8s longer than fh so fh will fit here.
https://twitter.com/OliverNerd7/status/1754647149466337331

Offline catdlr

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Re: SpaceX lease SLC-6
« Reply #170 on: 02/06/2024 09:00 am »
SpaceX is reconfiguring now. Does the mobile launch vertical integration gantry tower belong to SpaceX. If yes we can launch ppe/halo  from here as delta IV Heavy 8s longer than fh so fh will fit here.
https://twitter.com/OliverNerd7/status/1754647149466337331

That building is located on the attached aerial at the Green Circle
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Offline catdlr

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Re: SpaceX lease SLC-6
« Reply #171 on: 02/06/2024 09:17 am »
Upon getting that photo above I notice a "hum" of activity at various locations/buildings at the complex.

Google indicates these pictures were taken in 2024

Building adjacent to the pad same elevation
Building below the pad
Building down the hill
Nitrogen farm, possible (existing)
Backup Generators (existing)
Retention ponds (abandoned dried up) possible landing pads?
Harbor, barge delivery som old looking equipment (pair).

Jim, Helodriver, please review, correct me, and/or respond with any other info. Few have actually visited this facility so your comments are much appreciated.
« Last Edit: 02/06/2024 09:23 am by catdlr »
Tony De La Rosa, ...I'm no Feline Dealer!! I move mountains.  but I'm better known for "I think it's highly sexual." Japanese to English Translation.

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: SpaceX lease SLC-6
« Reply #172 on: 02/06/2024 02:44 pm »
Google indicates these pictures were taken in 2024

Google Earth indicates that some of these pictures were taken on October 5, 2023 and some on May 5, 2023.
« Last Edit: 02/06/2024 02:46 pm by RedLineTrain »

Online Alexphysics

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Re: SpaceX lease SLC-6
« Reply #173 on: 02/06/2024 08:17 pm »
Some of those buildings marked there as "humming" were already part of SpaceX's property even when ULA was at SLC-6, they're technically not at SLC-6 property, just very close to it and they were humming because, well, SpaceX property. The last image is just a couple of fairings being delivered from Long Beach, you can see a booster further up the road as well. They transport fairing halves and boosters to that dock via barge after they're unloaded at Long Beach.

Offline harrystranger

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Re: SpaceX lease SLC-6
« Reply #174 on: 02/09/2024 12:32 am »
Here is the most recent public image of the site from Feb 2nd.

https://twitter.com/Harry__Stranger/status/1754480782465528061
« Last Edit: 02/09/2024 12:32 am by harrystranger »

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