Author Topic: Green fuel production  (Read 4579 times)

Offline meekGee

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Green fuel production
« on: 03/04/2022 02:02 pm »
Saw this headline:
https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/world-s-largest-green-hydrogen-project-unveiled-in-texas-with-plan-to-produce-clean-rocket-fuel-for-elon-musk/2-1-1178689

Basically green H2 converted to Methane at the port of Brownsville "for SpaceX".

I wonder if it's a coordinated effort or name-dropping..

Still interesting.

Build it and they will come?
« Last Edit: 03/04/2022 02:35 pm by meekGee »
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Online DanClemmensen

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Re: Green fuel production
« Reply #1 on: 03/04/2022 02:19 pm »
Saw this headline:
https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/world-s-largest-green-hydrogen-project-unveiled-in-texas-with-plan-to-produce-clean-rocket-fuel-for-elon-musk/2-1-1178689

I wonder if it's a coordinated effort or name-dropping..

Still interesting.

Build it and they will come?
It is a new venture to produce and store H2 from renewable electricity on a massive scale. Their main competitive advantage is access to high-quality underground storage in salt formations. Their main market will be selling to current users of "gray" hydrogen produced from NG, which is used to produce ammonia in massive amounts and for other stuff. The SpaceX tie-in is the use of H2 plus CO2 produce CH4. They intend to send the H2 by pipeline to a new plant near Brownsville that will produce the CH4.  Not stated: how does this compete against the hyper-abundant cheap NG in south Texas?
My guess:  NG is impure (15% is stuff other than CH4), while the CH4  produced from H2 will be pure. It may be cheaper at the system level to use the new stuff instead of cleaning the NG.

Offline spacenut

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Re: Green fuel production
« Reply #2 on: 03/04/2022 02:23 pm »
Saw this headline:
https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/world-s-largest-green-hydrogen-project-unveiled-in-texas-with-plan-to-produce-clean-rocket-fuel-for-elon-musk/2-1-1178689

I wonder if it's a coordinated effort or name-dropping..

Still interesting.

Build it and they will come?
It is a new venture to produce and store H2 from renewable electricity on a massive scale. Their main competitive advantage is access to high-quality underground storage in salt formations. Their main market will be selling to current users of "gray" hydrogen produced from NG, which is used to produce ammonia in massive amounts and for other stuff. The SpaceX tie-in is the use of H2 plus CO2 produce CH4. They intend to send the H2 by pipeline to a new plant near Brownsville that will produce the CH4.  Not stated: how does this compete against the hyper-abundant cheap NG in south Texas?
My guess:  NG is impure (15% is stuff other than CH4), while the CH4  produced from H2 will be pure. It may be cheaper at the system level to use the new stuff instead of cleaning the NG.

It is NOT hard to separate impurities in natural gas.  It goes through a separator tower.  No moving parts.  Liquids condense to the bottom.  Hydrogen goes to the top.  Various other gases such as ethane or butane take off slightly up from the bottom.  It is done all the time before it goes into the national distribution system. 

Offline meekGee

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Re: Green fuel production
« Reply #3 on: 03/04/2022 02:26 pm »
Saw this headline:
https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/world-s-largest-green-hydrogen-project-unveiled-in-texas-with-plan-to-produce-clean-rocket-fuel-for-elon-musk/2-1-1178689

I wonder if it's a coordinated effort or name-dropping..

Still interesting.

Build it and they will come?
It is a new venture to produce and store H2 from renewable electricity on a massive scale. Their main competitive advantage is access to high-quality underground storage in salt formations. Their main market will be selling to current users of "gray" hydrogen produced from NG, which is used to produce ammonia in massive amounts and for other stuff. The SpaceX tie-in is the use of H2 plus CO2 produce CH4. They intend to send the H2 by pipeline to a new plant near Brownsville that will produce the CH4.  Not stated: how does this compete against the hyper-abundant cheap NG in south Texas?
My guess:  NG is impure (15% is stuff other than CH4), while the CH4  produced from H2 will be pure. It may be cheaper at the system level to use the new stuff instead of cleaning the NG.
Yup.

Wondering where the CO2 is coming from, or else they could have run that reaction at the H2 side and pipeline the Methane instead.
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Online DanClemmensen

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Re: Green fuel production
« Reply #4 on: 03/04/2022 02:41 pm »
Saw this headline:
https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/world-s-largest-green-hydrogen-project-unveiled-in-texas-with-plan-to-produce-clean-rocket-fuel-for-elon-musk/2-1-1178689

I wonder if it's a coordinated effort or name-dropping..

Still interesting.

Build it and they will come?
It is a new venture to produce and store H2 from renewable electricity on a massive scale. Their main competitive advantage is access to high-quality underground storage in salt formations. Their main market will be selling to current users of "gray" hydrogen produced from NG, which is used to produce ammonia in massive amounts and for other stuff. The SpaceX tie-in is the use of H2 plus CO2 produce CH4. They intend to send the H2 by pipeline to a new plant near Brownsville that will produce the CH4.  Not stated: how does this compete against the hyper-abundant cheap NG in south Texas?
My guess:  NG is impure (15% is stuff other than CH4), while the CH4  produced from H2 will be pure. It may be cheaper at the system level to use the new stuff instead of cleaning the NG.

It is NOT hard to separate impurities in natural gas.  It goes through a separator tower.  No moving parts.  Liquids condense to the bottom.  Hydrogen goes to the top.  Various other gases such as ethane or butane take off slightly up from the bottom.  It is done all the time before it goes into the national distribution system.
I did not say it is hard. I said it may be relatively more expensive. The NG has about 15% non-CH4 after the initial clean-up, I think. Re-gassified LNG only has about 5% non-CH4, because additional cleanup is a nearly inevitable side-effect of liquefaction. But the NG distribution grid does not need pure CH4, and in fact portions of the system depend on the NG having heavier components (specifically hexane) to avoid desiccation of gaskets:
     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Cove_Point_LNG
Most consumers of NG do not need and may not want pure CH4, but Methalox engines apparently do prefer pure densified LCH4.

Offline Jim

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Re: Green fuel production
« Reply #5 on: 03/04/2022 02:43 pm »
And if Boca Chica is only a test site, there is no high demand from it.

Online DanClemmensen

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Re: Green fuel production
« Reply #6 on: 03/04/2022 02:58 pm »
And if Boca Chica is only a test site, there is no high demand from it.
True. The big H2 customers will be the Ammonia plants near Corpus Christi. I think their press release pointed to use by SpaceX because its sexy, not because it's practical.

Offline deadman1204

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Re: Green fuel production
« Reply #7 on: 03/04/2022 03:57 pm »
The article says that the H2 plant will be powered with onsite solar and wind, with molten salt storage.

Thats good, because this is required for it to actually be "green" energy. H2 plants that burn fossil fuels don't make clean or green energy.

Online DanClemmensen

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Re: Green fuel production
« Reply #8 on: 03/04/2022 04:10 pm »
The article says that the H2 plant will be powered with onsite solar and wind, with molten salt storage.

Thats good, because this is required for it to actually be "green" energy. H2 plants that burn fossil fuels don't make clean or green energy.
Sorry, but not "molten salt". They intend to store the produced H2 on those salt caverns as a gas.

Offline steveleach

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Re: Green fuel production
« Reply #9 on: 03/04/2022 07:06 pm »
And if Boca Chica is only a test site, there is no high demand from it.
True. The big H2 customers will be the Ammonia plants near Corpus Christi. I think their press release pointed to use by SpaceX because its sexy, not because it's practical.
SpaceX have already announced that they want to produce "green" methane from atmospheric CO2, and to do that they also need green hydrogen. Now here's a (relatively) local company producing that green hydrogen.

Sounds like a perfect match to me.

Offline su27k

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Re: Green fuel production
« Reply #10 on: 03/05/2022 01:10 am »
And if Boca Chica is only a test site, there is no high demand from it.

There will be high demand once they start launching from off shore platforms.

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