Author Topic: SpaceX wants NASA’s LC-49 for Starship Super Heavy launches  (Read 67752 times)

Offline spacenut

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Does the Space Force control the old missile range south of the NASA facilities?  I was wondering what if they could build down there if the Space Force would allow them?  Since it was already developed back in the 1950's and 60's, it should only require rebuilding for SpaceX.

Do they still test missiles there?
 

Offline Lar

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Does the Space Force control the old missile range south of the NASA facilities?  I was wondering what if they could build down there if the Space Force would allow them?  Since it was already developed back in the 1950's and 60's, it should only require rebuilding for SpaceX.

Do they still test missiles there?
 

Do you have any maps or historical articles to give context for where this range is?  Is it south of Port Canaveral?
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Offline DaveS

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He's talking about what today is CCSFS. The SLCs of CCSFS used to be known as the "Missile Row" back in 60's and early 70's.

NASA's facilities are really only what is considered KSC which is LC39 with its two pads, the VAB area, the SLF and the Industrial Area to the south.
« Last Edit: 12/19/2021 02:04 pm by DaveS »
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Does the Space Force control the old missile range south of the NASA facilities?  I was wondering what if they could build down there if the Space Force would allow them?  Since it was already developed back in the 1950's and 60's, it should only require rebuilding for SpaceX.

Do they still test missiles there?
If you are talking about the Eastern Test Range, yes they still control it. The Cape itself from 41 down to 46 still falls under ultimate control of the Space Force, but Space Florida has been working to open up many of the facilities for commercial use, like 36 (BO), 46 for Astra and others, the establishment of LZ 1 & 2, etc... The range still has all the rocket launch monitoring assets along the various island chain in the Bahamas and south.

If you are talking about the area off of West Palm, I believe that area still exists and supports submarine launched and other sea based tests.

Offline spacenut

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Yes, the missile range is what I was talking about. 

Offline Jim

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Yes, the missile range is what I was talking about.

The KSC and the Cape use the same range. 
LC-40 Falcon 9 and LC-37 Delta IV are on the Cape.  Blue origin is going to use the former Atlas LC-36.  There is no room for Starship.

There is no separate sub range near West Palm.  Sun launches are due east from the Cape.
« Last Edit: 12/19/2021 09:50 pm by Jim »

Offline TheRadicalModerate

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In fact: an explosive failure of Falcon 9 or FH on 39A will do as much damage (if not more) to the VIF than a SH/SS explosive failure.

A good point.

How is this different from NASA allowing SpaceX to launch the first Falcon Heavy from the same launch mount used by Commercial Crew?

A less good point, since the first FH launch predated the construction of the access arm by about six months.

However, I think you've all convinced me that the DoD and NASA are indeed less freaked out about this than I would have suspected.

Offline quagmire

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A less good point, since the first FH launch predated the construction of the access arm by about six months.

However, I think you've all convinced me that the DoD and NASA are indeed less freaked out about this than I would have suspected.

Even before the access arm was added to 39A, the FH going boom would still likely cause damage to the FSS which would delay installation of access arm.

This is still ignoring how long 39A would be down for repairs.
« Last Edit: 12/20/2021 02:36 pm by quagmire »

Offline Jcc

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Hence if the first several Starship/Superheavy launches are from Boca Chica, that retires some risk of damage to the Cape facilities. It will be a proven launch system.

Offline su27k

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Interview with KSC director of center planning on Starship at LC-49, I don't think there's anything new here, except this:

Quote from: spaceexplored.com
When did SpaceX first express interest in LC-49?

He did not have the date on hand, but they followed back up, informing me that SpaceX reached out about the Notice of Availability for Launch Complex 49 back on June 7, 2021.

Offline Conexion Espacial

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Some images of the current state of the LC-49 zone published by NASA, we also have a video showing the entire area that in the future will be used for Starship.


Video: https://images.nasa.gov/details-KSC-20211220-MH-GEB01-0001-Launch_Complex_49-3293626

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Offline nacnud

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SpaceX uses the high bays for lots of welding etc, while NASA uses the VAB to store fully fuelled gigantic solid rocket motors. I can see a potential issue here.

Offline zack

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The project is already being torpedoed, probably by the same people that said you can't use Boca Chica, use KSC....

https://mobile.twitter.com/orlandosentinel/status/1475502043225903104

Offline Robotbeat

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These people didn’t say anything when NASA was shopping around looking for people who would use this land. Now that it’s SpaceX, though, we’ll obviously THAT’S a problem… 🙄
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Offline quagmire

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These people didn’t say anything when NASA was shopping around looking for people who would use this land. Now that it’s SpaceX, though, we’ll obviously THAT’S a problem…

And who owns the land where the road is? Does KSC/NASA still own it since it was in the plans back in the 60’s or did it get turned over to the state when 39C/D got cancelled?

Though the environmental review is the one that is valid since KSC is on a refuge and believe Federal Law requires such an environmental review is done, so that road block was to be expected.
« Last Edit: 12/28/2021 06:30 pm by quagmire »

Offline Robotbeat

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Environmental review is indeed valid and is pretty standard no matter where you build.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

The project is already being torpedoed, probably by the same people that said you can't use Boca Chica, use KSC....



 SpaceX started construction in Boca Chica in 2015 but the Environmental review process took years and was started in 2012.    Expectations for a multi-year review process should be similar.  Nothing out of the ordinary so far.
« Last Edit: 12/28/2021 11:38 pm by sparks »

Offline Welsh Dragon

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These people didn’t say anything when NASA was shopping around looking for people who would use this land. Now that it’s SpaceX, though, we’ll obviously THAT’S a problem… 🙄
Could it perhaps be that there is now coverage of it....? I'm a member here and thus a certified space nerd, and the first time I heard of LC-49 was in the Starship context. The general public would have been even less likely to have heard of it prior to it being linked to Starship. The "everyone is out to get SpaceX" meme is getting rather tired if you ask me.

Offline Robotbeat

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These people didn’t say anything when NASA was shopping around looking for people who would use this land. Now that it’s SpaceX, though, we’ll obviously THAT’S a problem… 🙄
Could it perhaps be that there is now coverage of it....? I'm a member here and thus a certified space nerd, and the first time I heard of LC-49 was in the Starship context. The general public would have been even less likely to have heard of it prior to it being linked to Starship. The "everyone is out to get SpaceX" meme is getting rather tired if you ask me.
Hard to shake that feeling when people only care when SpaceX is involved. SpaceX is not the first company to show interest in LC-49.
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To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline quagmire

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These people didn’t say anything when NASA was shopping around looking for people who would use this land. Now that it’s SpaceX, though, we’ll obviously THAT’S a problem… 🙄
Could it perhaps be that there is now coverage of it....? I'm a member here and thus a certified space nerd, and the first time I heard of LC-49 was in the Starship context. The general public would have been even less likely to have heard of it prior to it being linked to Starship. The "everyone is out to get SpaceX" meme is getting rather tired if you ask me.
Hard to shake that feeling when people only care when SpaceX is involved. SpaceX is not the first company to show interest in LC-49.

No, but given BO's secretive nature and not much public attention(especially at the time of their interest), I doubt many outside of us space nerds knew of their interest in LC-49.

Now SpaceX being much more public, their interest would make the rounds outside of space focused news sites.

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