Author Topic: Impulse Space  (Read 30241 times)

Online edzieba

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Re: Impulse Space Propulsion
« Reply #20 on: 07/19/2022 05:50 pm »
Hard to see the business case here, the only thing I can think of is that they think NASA will start a CLPS equivalent program for Mars cargo delivery.
From the Ars article:
Quote
The Mars mission was conceived last year when Relativity's vice president of engineering and manufacturing, Zach Dunn, reached out to Mueller. [...]
The companies devised a mission in which the Terran-R vehicle would boost a Mars Cruise Vehicle developed by Impulse Space into a trajectory toward Mars.
[...] [Tim Ellis] said he wanted to make a statement by putting a Mars-bound payload on the first launch of the Terran-R rocket. Ellis founded Relativity Space partly because he was inspired by what SpaceX and Elon Musk were trying to do to make humanity a multiplanetary species. This commercial mission, he said, would move the needle forward.
It sounds more like this is intended more as a showoff demo mission a-la Falcon Heavy flight 1, with commercial applications a nice bonus if it succeeds.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Impulse Space Propulsion
« Reply #21 on: 07/19/2022 05:55 pm »
Oh, this is exciting!!

Having more than just SpaceX focusing on Mars will help bring needed competition and make it more feasible for NASA to rely on commercialization (including its lower costs) for Mars.

There have been so many Moon-focused space companies, and even more asteroid focused ones than Mars.

Super duper excited by all this.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline StormtrooperJoe

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Re: Impulse Space Propulsion
« Reply #22 on: 07/19/2022 06:01 pm »
Very cool. I am guessing this is too small to carry ExoMars, but it would be nice if something like this could be used to eventually get ExoMars to it's intended destination.

Offline Cheapchips

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Re: Impulse Space Propulsion
« Reply #23 on: 07/20/2022 08:12 am »
Very cool. I am guessing this is too small to carry ExoMars, but it would be nice if something like this could be used to eventually get ExoMars to it's intended destination.

That's an interesting thought.  They're using a Phoenix aeroshell,  so that gives us some idea of the maximum size?  Phoenix itself was around 1.5m diameter undeployed.  Subsequent missions had larger payloads and/or larger Phoenix derived shells, so it's a little woolly.

Lockheed Martin build all of the NASA mission shells. Presumably Impulse have signed a contract with them?

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Impulse Space Propulsion
« Reply #24 on: 07/20/2022 07:45 pm »
Very cool. I am guessing this is too small to carry ExoMars, but it would be nice if something like this could be used to eventually get ExoMars to it's intended destination.
Ideally candidate to deliver larger more capable Ingenuity MK2. Development time frame is tight but worth NASA going for if they can get cheap ride to Mars.
« Last Edit: 07/21/2022 01:30 am by zubenelgenubi »

Offline su27k

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Re: Impulse Space Propulsion
« Reply #25 on: 09/21/2022 01:33 am »
https://twitter.com/GoToImpulse/status/1572013484334010368

Quote
Is there a sufficient market to economically sustain a commercial, scientific Mars lander? Here's Aaron answering this Instagram #AskMeAnything.

The answer of course is "yes", so I guess CMPS here we come?

Offline ParabolicSnark

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Re: Impulse Space Propulsion
« Reply #26 on: 10/12/2022 11:37 pm »
Looks like Impulse is looking to expand quite a bit: they have 22 job requisitions open, including 2 particularly interesting ones:
 - Turbomachinery Development Engineer: https://impulsespace.pinpointhq.com/en/jobs/56785
 - Turbomachinery Engineer - Aerodynamic/Hydrodynamic Design: https://impulsespace.pinpointhq.com/en/jobs/56786

So it looks like they're bringing turbomachinery in house, as evident by the fact that they're looking for aero/hydrodynamicists. If they were buying or operating turbopumps, the development engineer role itself would be sufficient. It also indicates that they're looking at "conventional" turbomachinery and not electric "turbo"pumps since they specify hot gas turbine rotors.

I'm curious what this indicates. Their business has been oriented towards space propulsion for last-mile space tugs and landers, neither of which would trade particularly well for turbopumps. That implies they're looking to make a much larger engine.

Did Tom get bored with the little thrusters already? Are they looking to compete directly with Ursa Major? Is this related to the contracts with Relativity and perhaps assisting them with Aeon R (gross speculation on that front)?

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Impulse Space Propulsion
« Reply #27 on: 11/14/2022 10:25 pm »
twitter.com/gotoimpulse/status/1592270182256611328

Quote
Our "Saiph" thruster firing in our vacuum test chamber

#Impulse #GoToImpulse #AccessAnyOrbit #Propulsion #PropulsionTest #Engines #Thrust

https://twitter.com/lrocket/status/1592294834261614592

Quote
Our current thrusters are named after stars in the Orion constellation.  Saiph is the small blue star below Rigel in this illustration.  Saiph is our 5 lbf (22 N) thrust engine and Rigel is our 180 lbf (800 N) thrust engine that will be used to land on Mars   @GoToImpulse

Online edzieba

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Re: Impulse Space Propulsion
« Reply #28 on: 11/21/2022 01:36 pm »
twitter.com/gotoimpulse/status/1592270182256611328

Quote
Our "Saiph" thruster firing in our vacuum test chamber

#Impulse #GoToImpulse #AccessAnyOrbit #Propulsion #PropulsionTest #Engines #Thrust

https://twitter.com/lrocket/status/1592294834261614592

Quote
Our current thrusters are named after stars in the Orion constellation.  Saiph is the small blue star below Rigel in this illustration.  Saiph is our 5 lbf (22 N) thrust engine and Rigel is our 180 lbf (800 N) thrust engine that will be used to land on Mars   @GoToImpulse
That video captures an effect I don't think I've seen visualised before!
Watch the entrance to the nozzle throat. As the engine starts and warms up, the chamber immediately above the throat starts to glow (radiative cooling regime), the upper portion of the throat, and the upper portion of the nozzle bell remain dark (conductive cooling with propellant flow), and the lower portion of the bell also starts to glow (radiative cooling).
But when the engine shuts down, you can see the throat almost immediately start to glow. This is where heat soak from the hot inner wall is making its way to the outer wall now that the coolant (propellant) flow has ceased! You can clearly see from this how engines can RUD at the moment of shutdown as well as during startup due to the change in thermal environment.

Offline su27k

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Re: Impulse Space Propulsion
« Reply #29 on: 11/24/2022 03:36 am »
https://twitter.com/GoToImpulse/status/1595447150347190274

Quote
Rigel-M thrusters (adapted for Mars atmosphere). Design integrates entire fluid circuit into single printed part, eliminates need for tubing, ducts, etc. Running units through development testing before integrating onto our Mars lander prototype vehicle for Earth hover testing.

Offline su27k

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Re: Impulse Space Propulsion
« Reply #30 on: 12/07/2022 02:09 am »
https://twitter.com/GoToImpulse/status/1600291469184897025

Quote
Ongoing 'Saiph' thruster vacuum testing.

#Impulse #GoToImpulse #AccessAnyOrbit #Propulsion

Offline su27k

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Re: Impulse Space Propulsion
« Reply #31 on: 01/05/2023 03:19 am »
https://twitter.com/TechCrunch/status/1610778270533828611

Quote
Impulse Space will hitch a ride on SpaceX’s Transporter-9 for first mission later this year https://tcrn.ch/3Zd1xFW by @breadfrom


Impulse Space announces first orbital transfer vehicle mission

Quote from: SpaceNews
Impulse Space announced Jan. 4 it will launch its first orbital transfer vehicle late this year on a SpaceX rideshare mission.

Impulse Space said its LEO Express-1 mission, using a transfer vehicle it is developing called Mira, is manifested for launch on SpaceX’s Transporter-9 rideshare mission currently scheduled for launch in the fourth quarter of 2023. LEO Express-1 will carry a primary payload for an undisclosed customer.

Barry Matsumori, chief operating officer of Impulse Space, said in an interview that the mission can accommodate additional payloads, like cubesats. The mission profile is still being finalized, but he said the vehicle, after making some initial deployments, may raise its orbit, then lower it to demonstrate operations in what’s known as very low Earth orbit, around 300 kilometers.
« Last Edit: 01/07/2023 02:52 am by su27k »

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Impulse Space Propulsion
« Reply #32 on: 01/05/2023 12:36 pm »
Looks like Impulse is looking to expand quite a bit: they have 22 job requisitions open, including 2 particularly interesting ones:
 - Turbomachinery Development Engineer: https://impulsespace.pinpointhq.com/en/jobs/56785
 - Turbomachinery Engineer - Aerodynamic/Hydrodynamic Design: https://impulsespace.pinpointhq.com/en/jobs/56786

So it looks like they're bringing turbomachinery in house, as evident by the fact that they're looking for aero/hydrodynamicists. If they were buying or operating turbopumps, the development engineer role itself would be sufficient. It also indicates that they're looking at "conventional" turbomachinery and not electric "turbo"pumps since they specify hot gas turbine rotors.

I'm curious what this indicates. Their business has been oriented towards space propulsion for last-mile space tugs and landers, neither of which would trade particularly well for turbopumps. That implies they're looking to make a much larger engine.

Did Tom get bored with the little thrusters already? Are they looking to compete directly with Ursa Major? Is this related to the contracts with Relativity and perhaps assisting them with Aeon R (gross speculation on that front)?
Tugs and landers trade very good with turbopumps, and the Soviets used them (or developed them, at least) for these roles. The US chose just pressure fed for these roles.

But this is 2023, making turbopumps is no longer a nation-state-level project. Turbopumps reduce dry mass a LOT compared to pressure fed and increase Isp as well, and these are very useful qualities for tugs and landers alike.

Depending on how serious Impulse is about Mars, a CO/O2 turbopump engine would be enabling for ISRU-fueled rockets and reusable landers. No one has done that, no one else is doing it. We’ve just demonstrated oxygen and CO fuel production on Mars, and this straightforward process would enable refueling anywhere on the planet without even having to dig in the soil an inch, just suck in CO2 with a compressor. Without being pumpfed, the performance would be terrible, but if pumpfed it could be an awesome option.
« Last Edit: 01/05/2023 01:03 pm by Robotbeat »
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Solarsail

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Re: Impulse Space Propulsion
« Reply #33 on: 01/05/2023 10:06 pm »
Don't the long loiter times and reliability requirements of tugs and landers fit better with electric pumps than with turbopumps?  And electric pumped engines get less massive below a thrust of 20 kN, if I recall the electric pumps thread...  Perhaps that idea that Impulse will be supporting development work on Aeon R sound superficially sound to me.

Offline J-B

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Re: Impulse Space Propulsion
« Reply #34 on: 02/19/2023 02:19 pm »
https://www.compositesworld.com/news/impulse-space-to-launch-first-orbital-service-vehicle-in-2023-using-cfrp-tanks

Q&A with Impulse Space COO
CW Senior Technical Editor, Ginger Gardiner, spoke with Impulse Space COO, Barry Matsumori, about the company’s planned vehicles and potential use of carbon fiber-reinforced composites.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Impulse Space
« Reply #35 on: 03/15/2023 06:01 pm »
https://twitter.com/lrocket/status/1636056835995357184

Quote
This is SN1 Saiph 5lb thruster, ready to start qualification testing.  In development we put over 40,000 pulses and 50,000 seconds of burn duration on the Saiph thrusters.  @GoToImpulse

Offline Conexion Espacial

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Re: Impulse Space
« Reply #36 on: 05/18/2023 05:37 pm »
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1659237702380802049
Quote

The integrated Cruise Vehicle, Entry Capsule, and Mars Lander developed by Impulse Space will launch in 2026 on the Relativity Terran R launch vehicle. After traveling through interplanetary space for over half a year, the Cruise Vehicle will inject the Entry Capsule into the correct landing trajectory and detach. The Entry Capsule will use the proven combination of heatshield and parachute to slow down enough to safely deploy the Mars Lander into freefall. The lander will then perform a propulsive landing using purpose-built engines developed in-house at Impulse Space, completing the first commercial payload delivery to the surface of another planet.
https://www.impulsespace.com/mars
I publish information in Spanish about space and rockets.
www.x.com/conexionspacial

Re: Impulse Space
« Reply #37 on: 05/18/2023 09:29 pm »
Just looking off the size of their vehicle and the size compared to the 4" mounting holes on the slip table, it looks like the bus of the sat is 28"x28"x40ish"? and the solar panel is around 72"x48"?

https://twitter.com/GoToImpulse/status/1658911181057429504

Not sure how this system plays with the SpaceX rideshare 24" Full Plate Bolt pattern tho

Offline gongora

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Re: Impulse Space
« Reply #38 on: 05/30/2023 05:17 pm »

Offline Hug

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Re: Impulse Space
« Reply #39 on: 06/01/2023 03:24 pm »
Good convo; Mueller is always going to have fun things to say (propulsion engineers have the best presents). Anyways, Helios is their next tug after Mira. It's a ~$20M methalox stage designed around delivering 4-5 tons from LEO to GEO (direct). With 5 tons payload; you would expect a wet mass of around 21 tons including payload. Designed around being put on a cheap Starship rideshare launch to compete with the HLVs. Although ridesharing with a cryogenic stage in fairing feels wack. But I kinda do like math here. VC4 is the reference point for use, $100M? Starlink Starship rideshare would be nice, but would inclination work?

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