Author Topic: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane(s)  (Read 28737 times)

Offline MTom

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #20 on: 11/01/2021 06:28 am »
Have nicknames for the LR11000 converged yet?

 I've seen twitter mentions of Cranium as a semilogical progression from Frankencrane...

Maybe X-Crane?

Offline catdlr

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #21 on: 11/01/2021 06:36 am »
My toss: X-Lifter
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Offline Perchlorate

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #22 on: 11/01/2021 07:44 am »
Have nicknames for the LR11000 converged yet?

 I've seen twitter mentions of Cranium as a semilogical progression from Frankencrane...

Maybe X-Crane?

Wouldn't CraneX roll off the tongue better?
Pete B, a Civil Engineer, in an age of incivility.

Offline danneely

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #23 on: 11/01/2021 10:40 am »
Does anybody know (and I mean know, not just have a hunch) if the LR11350 was even strictly needed for this job? .... Perhaps a similarly configured LR11000 would have been capable of doing everything that's been done so far with the LR11350, but thats not what Fagioli had available at the time.  I'm not saying I believe this to be true ... I actually have no idea.  But can anyone definitively refute this notion?

  This is an interesting question and boils down to whether the 11350 has lifted anything that the 11000 couldn't. A good starting point is to look at the current (tallest) configuration of the 11350 and compare that with a similar config of the 11000 (if possible).

  In the vernacular of Liebherr the current config of the 11350 would be PDW/B2. Unfortunately, the load charts for the 11000 don't have a listing for the B2 counter weight (CW) to reference. This doesn't mean that this type of CW can't be used, only that the general load charts available on their website don't list it. Therefore, let us look at the BW style counter weight, which is the wheeled carriage CW.
  This would put the 11350 in the PDW/BW config and the 11000 in the PDW3/BW config. To my eye the 11350 is set up with a 102m Power Boom, 42m Derrick Mast, and 48m Luffing Jib (boom). The load charts for the 11000 have an exact listing for that same set-up, and looking at a load distance of 28m from center give these results:

LR 11350 - 341 tons
LR 11000 - 226 tons

  Therefore, the smaller crane can deal with about 2/3 of what the larger one can in the "tall" configuration, and any lift that was greater than 226 tons would necessitate the use of the larger crane. Back in May, I made an estimate of the tower section weights and came up with 270 tons on the high end. The sections are probably lighter than my estimate, but this is close enough to maxing out the 11000 that I would say the 11350 was necessary for the job.
  The last sections lifted to the tower were not "full" sections, and therefore much lighter. One could make the argument that the 11000 could have the boom config shortened to deal with the seven full tower sections, and then lengthened to deal with the last two lighter section lifts. This argument assumes that the "full" size tower sections are less than 240 tons.
For future towers at Boca Chica: potentially they could be refined to be lighter and the catch capability omitted, or even the height reduced. Only one catcher can serve multiple launches as long at boosters are not launching simultaneously, and the catch arms could lower a booster onto a waiting SPMT as well as they could onto the nearest launch mount. That allows for a tower that only needs to support the stabiliser and QD arm (and possibly payload/crew access arm). SpaceX hale already demonstrated that stacking with a roller crane is perfectly viable, with loads well within the capacity of the LR11350 used (it was just what was next to the pad at the time, with the LR11000 busy with GSE work). Tim Dodd's video at Starbase already had them mentioning that the launch table was enormously overbuilt and the next one would be significantly slimmed down, so the same may be true for the tower.

I expect the next tower to be full featured again.  Partly so they have a complete spare if a RUD blows the first one up, and partly so they can test the v2 version of the catching arms along with everything else.

Offline Urx

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #24 on: 11/01/2021 03:39 pm »
Which NSF photo sleuths appear to have matched to a Liebherr LR 11000 series crane, suggesting it might be a replacement for Frankencrane.

Frankencrane is LR 11350. So, this is a replacement for the yellow LR 11000 that's currently being used to lift the GSE tanks/cryo shells and ships/boosters on/off the suborbital pad.

For those interested in cranes and fluent in German and have 4 h of time:
https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/omegataupodcast/omegatau-349-kranKonstruktion-3.mp3
Interviews with several Liebherr employees - gets really technical.

What I remember from it regarding model names:
LR11350: Liebherr Raupenkran Subcompany 1 (most but not all Liebherr cranes), lift of 1350t of weight at a small, standardized distance (5-6 m IIRC, but memory may be wrong here).
LR11000 by the same schema has 1000 t.

Offline AstroDave

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #25 on: 11/04/2021 02:46 am »
  The assembly of the new crane is fun to watch. Many thanks to the NSF crew for getting some dedicated footage of the process toady on their live stream.
  The footage from today shows the assembly team putting on extra stabilizers to one of the crawler frames. This may aid in being able to erect the boom from the "side" instead of having the boom in line with the crawlers. Will have to wait and see.


 
  First image is from today's (3 Nov) Boca Chica Production Update thread, and shows one of the stabilizers on a delivery trailer. Again, another fine image from bocachicagal!
Link: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=hl2ss9ls5ithe7mdn65toe3r62&topic=54984.msg2306400#msg2306400

  Second image is screenshot from NSF live feed that shows crew fitting second stabilizer onto the crawler frame. This was at evening twilight, so lighting was not ideal and image shows it.
 
  Third image is screenshot from LR11000 info manual showing how the stabilizers are attached to the crawler frame. Hoping this helps with visualizing what is going on in the grainy worksite picture. The manual can be downloaded from the the Liebherr website.
« Last Edit: 11/04/2021 02:49 am by AstroDave »

Offline litton4

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #26 on: 11/04/2021 09:01 am »
Have nicknames for the LR11000 converged yet?

 I've seen twitter mentions of Cranium as a semilogical progression from Frankencrane...

Maybe X-Crane?

Wouldn't CraneX roll off the tongue better?

Not CraneY McCraneface then?

(x->y? I'll get my coat)
« Last Edit: 11/04/2021 09:02 am by litton4 »
Dave Condliffe

Offline AstroDave

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #27 on: 11/05/2021 05:13 pm »
  The Buckner LR11000 has the shortest version (12m) of the flying jib config in place. During deliveries of boom sections, there was a smaller jib section that showed up that could enable the new crane to have a slightly longer flying jib section. Exciting to see what will happen.
  Also, interested to see if Buckner crane is decommissioned after BigX is online.


-First image is screenshot from NSF Daily Update Video (4 Nov) that shows smaller jib section inside a larger main boom section.

-Second image is a profile shot of the yellow LR11000 from bocachicagal. This is a great shot to reference the set up of the Buckner crane.

-Third image is a crop of the second to show the flying jib config with a yellow arrow pointing out where extra boom sections are installed to make the jib longer. Could see at least one extra section installed here on SpaceX crane, maybe more if they have been delivered. Max length of this flying jib set up is 39m.


Edit:  Appears that crane crew has kept extra boom sections out of current configuration. Looking like set up will be identical to Buckner crane for now.
--Fourth image added from NSF live feed shows extra boom sections on standby. Red outlines a main boom section, and yellow outlines a flying jib boom section.
« Last Edit: 11/05/2021 08:43 pm by AstroDave »

Offline danneely

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #28 on: 11/07/2021 03:55 am »
  The Buckner LR11000 has the shortest version (12m) of the flying jib config in place. During deliveries of boom sections, there was a smaller jib section that showed up that could enable the new crane to have a slightly longer flying jib section. Exciting to see what will happen.
  Also, interested to see if Buckner crane is decommissioned after BigX is online.

I suspect that unless it, or the SpaceX LR1100 is used for building the wide bay it will be.  The construction rate around orbital pad 1 seems to be slowing down with all the really big pieces in place.  They'll still need a tall crane to support the tower construction and backstop the chopsticks for moving the booster around; but the frantic building that needed two big cranes is going to be on pause for a while.  The permitting to start on the second orbital launch installation is still crawling its way through the bureaucracy and even after it's approved there will be a lengthy landing building step needed to build up the mud-flats before any major construction can start.

Offline Johnnyhinbos

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #29 on: 11/07/2021 04:01 am »
  The Buckner LR11000 has the shortest version (12m) of the flying jib config in place. During deliveries of boom sections, there was a smaller jib section that showed up that could enable the new crane to have a slightly longer flying jib section. Exciting to see what will happen.
  Also, interested to see if Buckner crane is decommissioned after BigX is online.

I suspect that unless it, or the SpaceX LR1100 is used for building the wide bay it will be.  The construction rate around orbital pad 1 seems to be slowing down with all the really big pieces in place.  They'll still need a tall crane to support the tower construction and backstop the chopsticks for moving the booster around; but the frantic building that needed two big cranes is going to be on pause for a while.  The permitting to start on the second orbital launch installation is still crawling its way through the bureaucracy and even after it's approved there will be a lengthy landing building step needed to build up the mud-flats before any major construction can start.
They still need to add the lightning suppression to the OLT
John Hanzl. Author, action / adventure www.johnhanzl.com

Offline danneely

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #30 on: 11/07/2021 01:54 pm »
  The Buckner LR11000 has the shortest version (12m) of the flying jib config in place. During deliveries of boom sections, there was a smaller jib section that showed up that could enable the new crane to have a slightly longer flying jib section. Exciting to see what will happen.
  Also, interested to see if Buckner crane is decommissioned after BigX is online.

I suspect that unless it, or the SpaceX LR1100 is used for building the wide bay it will be.  The construction rate around orbital pad 1 seems to be slowing down with all the really big pieces in place.  They'll still need a tall crane to support the tower construction and backstop the chopsticks for moving the booster around; but the frantic building that needed two big cranes is going to be on pause for a while.  The permitting to start on the second orbital launch installation is still crawling its way through the bureaucracy and even after it's approved there will be a lengthy landing building step needed to build up the mud-flats before any major construction can start.
They still need to add the lightning suppression to the OLT

A lightning rod's much smaller than a tower segment, never mind the launch table, everything left is probably going to fall into the same smaller stuff bucket.  They need a big crane for the reach, but they don't need something as massive as the LR11350, and probably don't need two LR11000's tagteaming anything either.  Either of them with a somewhat longer boom+jib combo should be able to do anything left.  If that wasn't the case they wouldn't be taking the frankencrane down yet.

Offline alugobi

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #31 on: 11/07/2021 04:02 pm »
Quote
and even after it's approved there will be a lengthy landing building step needed to build up the mud-flats before any major construction can start.
I remain skeptical that this ever happens.  Isn't the proposed launch rate five per year? 

That's a lot of infrastructure for not much activity.

Online DanClemmensen

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #32 on: 11/07/2021 04:14 pm »
Quote
and even after it's approved there will be a lengthy landing building step needed to build up the mud-flats before any major construction can start.
I remain skeptical that this ever happens.  Isn't the proposed launch rate five per year? 

That's a lot of infrastructure for not much activity.

That's the orbital launch rate. If they choose to deliver SH and SS using local "hops" to offshore platforms they will need to launch every SH and SS they build or refurbish, and land every SH and SS that needs refurbishment. A short hop is almost certainly the cheapest way to deliver an SS or SH to a "nearby" launch platform. A higher-energy (noisier) suborbital flight of some sort can deliver from there to a more distant launch platform such as Florida. The marginal cost of full orbital flight is supposed to be below $2 million, so I suspect the marginal cost of a hop will be quite low compared to the cost of shipping an SS or SH.

Offline danneely

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #33 on: 11/07/2021 06:39 pm »
Quote
and even after it's approved there will be a lengthy landing building step needed to build up the mud-flats before any major construction can start.
I remain skeptical that this ever happens.  Isn't the proposed launch rate five per year? 

That's a lot of infrastructure for not much activity.

It's not being build for high operational tempo.  It's one part a spare, so they're not grounded for months rebuilding if they have a major RUD on the pad.  And one part a second manufacturing path finder:  They've undoubtedly got a long list of lessons learned from building the first one, and will accumulate second set of issues when they start using it.  Those issues will feed into a revised design; and building that at BC too means they can absorb any new lessons from that while still at a low rate site where they'll matter less if they slow things down.  Then they can build a mature design at the cape and one one of the oil rigs.  Probably just one at first, I suspect there will be enough new lessons to learn from doing it at sea that they'll want to operate one before starting on the second so it can be a v2 design.

Offline Johnnyhinbos

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #34 on: 11/08/2021 02:22 am »
Opens door - looks around.

“Oh, sorry - I thought this room was for talking about SpaceX’s new crane. My mistake.”

Closes door…
John Hanzl. Author, action / adventure www.johnhanzl.com

Offline AstroDave

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #35 on: 11/10/2021 12:17 am »
  Very cool footage from NSF Starbase Live stream showing rigging process for lifting block on Buckner crane today. The footage shows that the Buckner crane is using the extra jib boom section that was delivered for the SpaceX crane. Guess they are going to need a little extra height for the new bay.
  The footage also shows the crane operator using a unique feature of modern cranes and equipment, a remote control! The little yellow, double joy stick box can be used to run most of the crane features from outside the operators cabin. Very convenient in certain circumstances, such as rigging up the lift hook. Watch the video feed if you want to see the remote in action.

Edit:  Since live feeds get time cycled into oblivion after 24 hours, this is a link to NSF daily update video that shows remote being used. Footage is sped up so be prepared to pause it or slow it down to see operator using control box.
  Having trouble linking to specific time. Go to 11:00 to see footage.

« Last Edit: 11/14/2021 03:39 pm by AstroDave »

Offline danneely

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #36 on: 11/14/2021 07:17 pm »
  Very cool footage from NSF Starbase Live stream showing rigging process for lifting block on Buckner crane today. The footage shows that the Buckner crane is using the extra jib boom section that was delivered for the SpaceX crane. Guess they are going to need a little extra height for the new bay.

Probably less height than horizontal reach for installing roof parts after the walls are framed.  Reaching over the walls to service the roof requires much less total trusses if your boom + jib looks like a hockey stick rather than a cane.

Offline AstroDave

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #37 on: 11/21/2021 03:49 pm »
Cross post from BC Production Update thread:
https://twitter.com/RGVaerialphotos/status/1462441724198981635

  Could be the first large piece of steel lifted by the new SpaceX crane. Looking forward to seeing the QD arm put into final configuration.

Edit: After thinking about this for a bit, does it make sense to have a massive piece of steel hanging out at end of QD arm? Leaning towards this being a hood for the launch table QD.
« Last Edit: 11/21/2021 04:03 pm by AstroDave »

Online Horasio

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #38 on: 11/21/2021 06:07 pm »
Edit: After thinking about this for a bit, does it make sense to have a massive piece of steel hanging out at end of QD arm? Leaning towards this being a hood for the launch table QD.

This is precisely what is written in the tweet! (Boooster QD arm hood  ;)

Offline DistantTemple

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #39 on: 11/21/2021 06:26 pm »
Edit: After thinking about this for a bit, does it make sense to have a massive piece of steel hanging out at end of QD arm? Leaning towards this being a hood for the launch table QD.

This is precisely what is written in the tweet! (Boooster QD arm hood  ;)
Isn't the tweet incorrect!
The QD aaaarrrmmm (my exaggeration) supplies propellant to the Starship, not the booster!
The booster is supplied by the QD mounted on the launch table.
Therefore Astro Dave is accurate in saying such a heavy item should be for the booster QD, ie, on the launch platform, not the arm.
« Last Edit: 11/21/2021 06:26 pm by DistantTemple »
We can always grow new new dendrites. Reach out and make connections and your world will burst with new insights. Then repose in consciousness.

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