Author Topic: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane(s)  (Read 28684 times)

Offline Asteroza

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SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane(s)
« on: 09/03/2021 12:04 am »
I may be pushing my luck here, but it appears SpaceX may be on its way to owning their own Frankencrane.


https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=54355.msg2284892#msg2284892

https://twitter.com/max9907826460/status/1433001281753337856

Quote
@TeslaratiTeam

Hey, I just saw this on the German Autobahn (A2 near Magdeburg) this morning. It's coming from Austria and might be heading to Hamburg or Rotterdam port.

Looks like a part of a future transport vehicle for getting Starship to the launch pad.

Any other ideas ?


Which NSF photo sleuths appear to have matched to a Liebherr LR 11000 series crane, suggesting it might be a replacement for Frankencrane.


So probably auf wiedersehen to Frankencrane then since it was a rental ("Liebherr, you just got here!")


Do we have a pet name for this new crane yet?
« Last Edit: 07/15/2022 05:07 am by Asteroza »

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From "The Rhetoric of Interstellar Flight", by Paul Gilster, March 10, 2011: We’ll build a future in space one dogged step at a time, and when asked how long humanity will struggle before reaching the stars, we’ll respond, “As long as it takes.”

Offline Nevyn72

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I may be pushing my luck here, but it appears SpaceX may be on its way to owning their own Frankencrane.

I think you'll find that Elon has already confirmed it.  ;)

Quote
Our new crane!

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1433121450446127106

Offline raivo45

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #3 on: 09/03/2021 06:51 am »
Which NSF photo sleuths appear to have matched to a Liebherr LR 11000 series crane, suggesting it might be a replacement for Frankencrane.

Frankencrane is LR 11350. So, this is a replacement for the yellow LR 11000 that's currently being used to lift the GSE tanks/cryo shells and ships/boosters on/off the suborbital pad.

Offline cdebuhr

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #4 on: 09/03/2021 06:02 pm »
Which NSF photo sleuths appear to have matched to a Liebherr LR 11000 series crane, suggesting it might be a replacement for Frankencrane.

Frankencrane is LR 11350. So, this is a replacement for the yellow LR 11000 that's currently being used to lift the GSE tanks/cryo shells and ships/boosters on/off the suborbital pad.
While I haven't reviewed the relative specs exhaustively (and lack the expertise to do so anyway ... not a crane expert!), superficially these seem to be quite similar units, differing somewhat in load capacity but generally supporting similar boom/jib combinations.  I expect the LR11000 is all the crane they anticipate needing.  Does anybody know (and I mean know, not just have a hunch) if the LR11350 was even strictly needed for this job?  ISTM that a company like Fagioli has a finite number of cranes in their inventory, and they'll send the one they've got that can do the job.  Perhaps a similarly configured LR11000 would have been capable of doing everything that's been done so far with the LR11350, but thats not what Fagioli had available at the time.  I'm not saying I believe this to be true ... I actually have no idea.  But can anyone definitively refute this notion?

Online Hobbes-22

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #5 on: 09/03/2021 06:43 pm »
You'd need to know the load moment (weight * distance to the centerline of the crane) of every load that's been lifted so far to determine that.

Offline geekesq

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #6 on: 09/03/2021 06:58 pm »
So, this is a replacement for the yellow LR 11000 ...
It's not necessarily a replacement for anything.  With the expansion of the facilities we're seeing at Starbase and the high launch cadence SpaceX may be pursuing, they may have decided they needed YAB: yet another BFC (Big "Freaking" Crane).

Maybe we should nickname it "YABbie."

Offline cdebuhr

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #7 on: 09/03/2021 07:06 pm »
You'd need to know the load moment (weight * distance to the centerline of the crane) of every load that's been lifted so far to determine that.
Fair enough, but we can probably safely ignore all the lighter stuff (e.g., construction stairs, bundles of pipe, etc.).  We could probably also get a pretty good idea of load moment by just looking at how much counterweight their using for a given lift.  Getting B4 onto the launch mount seems easily in-bounds for an LR11000, as does stacking S20.  the big lifts so far (unless I'm missing something big - not at all impossible), seem to be the tower segments and the launch table (which was done as a tandem lift).  If anybody with a better feel for the load charts and a reasonable estimate of masses involved want to have a stab at assessing the suitability of an LR11000 for these jobs, I'd be mildly curious to see the verdict.  And yes, I know the load moment is also important, but I'm sure the pixel counters around here can guess how far from crane centre these lifts were done at.

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #8 on: 09/03/2021 07:52 pm »
Another question to ask about the new Crain is where it is intended to be used … Starbase, Florida, etc.

Or will it be started to be used at Stabase, relieving the leased BFCs as the lift capacity of the launch tower comes on line, the moved? Or will clones of it be required for each launch site to support local manufacturing and delivery to operations based around the tower lift system?

No knowledge here, but thinking about building the machines that build the machines.
From "The Rhetoric of Interstellar Flight", by Paul Gilster, March 10, 2011: We’ll build a future in space one dogged step at a time, and when asked how long humanity will struggle before reaching the stars, we’ll respond, “As long as it takes.”

Offline jstrotha0975

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #9 on: 09/03/2021 08:00 pm »
Could this crane be used to build the vertical integration tower at LC-39A or is it overkill?

Offline danneely

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #10 on: 09/03/2021 08:13 pm »
Could this crane be used to build the vertical integration tower at LC-39A or is it overkill?

I suspect if they could've used something smaller in BC they would have; and the 13500 in doubled boom configuration can lift a lot more than any 11000 variant.  Doing it with the lesser model probably would've required lifting in much smaller segments at a time.

Offline RotoSequence

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #11 on: 09/03/2021 08:15 pm »
Could this crane be used to build the vertical integration tower at LC-39A or is it overkill?

I suspect if they could've used something smaller in BC they would have; and the 13500 in doubled boom configuration can lift a lot more than any 11000 variant.  Doing it with the lesser model probably would've required lifting in much smaller segments at a time.

The biggest crane in Boca is an 11350, not a 13000, but I digress. The only reason SpaceX has to buy a Liebherr LR11000 of their own (and we don't even know if they're planning to buy just one) is if they have enough prospective need for heavy lift that they save time and money by owning and operating it themselves.

Offline VaBlue

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #12 on: 09/03/2021 08:18 pm »
Could this crane be used to build the vertical integration tower at LC-39A or is it overkill?

It certainly could be, but I suspect it will be used to relieve one of the existing rentals.  Maybe it will do both?  It doesn't make sense financially to purchase a brand new (multi-million $$$) crane for a few months of work, so I doubt it's just for building a tower at 39A.

Offline AstroDave

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #13 on: 09/03/2021 09:04 pm »
Does anybody know (and I mean know, not just have a hunch) if the LR11350 was even strictly needed for this job? .... Perhaps a similarly configured LR11000 would have been capable of doing everything that's been done so far with the LR11350, but thats not what Fagioli had available at the time.  I'm not saying I believe this to be true ... I actually have no idea.  But can anyone definitively refute this notion?

  This is an interesting question and boils down to whether the 11350 has lifted anything that the 11000 couldn't. A good starting point is to look at the current (tallest) configuration of the 11350 and compare that with a similar config of the 11000 (if possible).

  In the vernacular of Liebherr the current config of the 11350 would be PDW/B2. Unfortunately, the load charts for the 11000 don't have a listing for the B2 counter weight (CW) to reference. This doesn't mean that this type of CW can't be used, only that the general load charts available on their website don't list it. Therefore, let us look at the BW style counter weight, which is the wheeled carriage CW.
  This would put the 11350 in the PDW/BW config and the 11000 in the PDW3/BW config. To my eye the 11350 is set up with a 102m Power Boom, 42m Derrick Mast, and 48m Luffing Jib (boom). The load charts for the 11000 have an exact listing for that same set-up, and looking at a load distance of 28m from center give these results:

LR 11350 - 341 tons
LR 11000 - 226 tons

  Therefore, the smaller crane can deal with about 2/3 of what the larger one can in the "tall" configuration, and any lift that was greater than 226 tons would necessitate the use of the larger crane. Back in May, I made an estimate of the tower section weights and came up with 270 tons on the high end. The sections are probably lighter than my estimate, but this is close enough to maxing out the 11000 that I would say the 11350 was necessary for the job.
  The last sections lifted to the tower were not "full" sections, and therefore much lighter. One could make the argument that the 11000 could have the boom config shortened to deal with the seven full tower sections, and then lengthened to deal with the last two lighter section lifts. This argument assumes that the "full" size tower sections are less than 240 tons.

Offline Kiwi53

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #14 on: 09/03/2021 11:19 pm »
They're going to need a rather large crane to build the new Wide High Bay, too, so I wouldn't be expecting any reduction in the big crane population at Starbase any time soon.

Offline alugobi

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #15 on: 09/04/2021 12:56 am »
I'm skeptical that all the parts will even be shipped and received at BC before they need to start using a crane on the new building.

Offline r1279

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #16 on: 09/04/2021 08:36 pm »
There's still the 2nd Boca Chica launch tower, mount, 2nd tank farm, and possibly launch site liquification and gas refining.  Perhaps owning frees them from the scheduling unknowns/increases flexibility without ongoing costs.

Then possibly outfitting the 2 sea launch platforms with tower, mount, and tanks and other infrastructure [propellant generation, generators] (if the shipyard cranes aren't suitable or not available)

Not sure if it would be here for wide bay but other potential buildings include the 70m high payload processing facility and yet another [rumoured] large manufacturing building [height might not be needed, but reach might be useful; or simply more cranes on hand]

And the Florida launch site and any additional Starship maintenance buildings there... anyhow, the point being there could possibly be a couple of years of work here where this crane could be useful.
« Last Edit: 09/05/2021 01:19 am by r1279 »

Offline edzieba

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #17 on: 09/05/2021 11:50 am »
Does anybody know (and I mean know, not just have a hunch) if the LR11350 was even strictly needed for this job? .... Perhaps a similarly configured LR11000 would have been capable of doing everything that's been done so far with the LR11350, but thats not what Fagioli had available at the time.  I'm not saying I believe this to be true ... I actually have no idea.  But can anyone definitively refute this notion?

  This is an interesting question and boils down to whether the 11350 has lifted anything that the 11000 couldn't. A good starting point is to look at the current (tallest) configuration of the 11350 and compare that with a similar config of the 11000 (if possible).

  In the vernacular of Liebherr the current config of the 11350 would be PDW/B2. Unfortunately, the load charts for the 11000 don't have a listing for the B2 counter weight (CW) to reference. This doesn't mean that this type of CW can't be used, only that the general load charts available on their website don't list it. Therefore, let us look at the BW style counter weight, which is the wheeled carriage CW.
  This would put the 11350 in the PDW/BW config and the 11000 in the PDW3/BW config. To my eye the 11350 is set up with a 102m Power Boom, 42m Derrick Mast, and 48m Luffing Jib (boom). The load charts for the 11000 have an exact listing for that same set-up, and looking at a load distance of 28m from center give these results:

LR 11350 - 341 tons
LR 11000 - 226 tons

  Therefore, the smaller crane can deal with about 2/3 of what the larger one can in the "tall" configuration, and any lift that was greater than 226 tons would necessitate the use of the larger crane. Back in May, I made an estimate of the tower section weights and came up with 270 tons on the high end. The sections are probably lighter than my estimate, but this is close enough to maxing out the 11000 that I would say the 11350 was necessary for the job.
  The last sections lifted to the tower were not "full" sections, and therefore much lighter. One could make the argument that the 11000 could have the boom config shortened to deal with the seven full tower sections, and then lengthened to deal with the last two lighter section lifts. This argument assumes that the "full" size tower sections are less than 240 tons.
For future towers at Boca Chica: potentially they could be refined to be lighter and the catch capability omitted, or even the height reduced. Only one catcher can serve multiple launches as long at boosters are not launching simultaneously, and the catch arms could lower a booster onto a waiting SPMT as well as they could onto the nearest launch mount. That allows for a tower that only needs to support the stabiliser and QD arm (and possibly payload/crew access arm). SpaceX hale already demonstrated that stacking with a roller crane is perfectly viable, with loads well within the capacity of the LR11350 used (it was just what was next to the pad at the time, with the LR11000 busy with GSE work). Tim Dodd's video at Starbase already had them mentioning that the launch table was enormously overbuilt and the next one would be significantly slimmed down, so the same may be true for the tower.

Offline Asteroza

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #18 on: 11/01/2021 03:11 am »
Have nicknames for the LR11000 converged yet?

 I've seen twitter mentions of Cranium as a semilogical progression from Frankencrane...

Offline RotoSequence

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #19 on: 11/01/2021 03:44 am »
Have nicknames for the LR11000 converged yet?

 I've seen twitter mentions of Cranium as a semilogical progression from Frankencrane...

I like Onyx (or OnyX), myself.

Offline MTom

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #20 on: 11/01/2021 06:28 am »
Have nicknames for the LR11000 converged yet?

 I've seen twitter mentions of Cranium as a semilogical progression from Frankencrane...

Maybe X-Crane?

Offline catdlr

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #21 on: 11/01/2021 06:36 am »
My toss: X-Lifter
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Offline Perchlorate

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #22 on: 11/01/2021 07:44 am »
Have nicknames for the LR11000 converged yet?

 I've seen twitter mentions of Cranium as a semilogical progression from Frankencrane...

Maybe X-Crane?

Wouldn't CraneX roll off the tongue better?
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Offline danneely

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #23 on: 11/01/2021 10:40 am »
Does anybody know (and I mean know, not just have a hunch) if the LR11350 was even strictly needed for this job? .... Perhaps a similarly configured LR11000 would have been capable of doing everything that's been done so far with the LR11350, but thats not what Fagioli had available at the time.  I'm not saying I believe this to be true ... I actually have no idea.  But can anyone definitively refute this notion?

  This is an interesting question and boils down to whether the 11350 has lifted anything that the 11000 couldn't. A good starting point is to look at the current (tallest) configuration of the 11350 and compare that with a similar config of the 11000 (if possible).

  In the vernacular of Liebherr the current config of the 11350 would be PDW/B2. Unfortunately, the load charts for the 11000 don't have a listing for the B2 counter weight (CW) to reference. This doesn't mean that this type of CW can't be used, only that the general load charts available on their website don't list it. Therefore, let us look at the BW style counter weight, which is the wheeled carriage CW.
  This would put the 11350 in the PDW/BW config and the 11000 in the PDW3/BW config. To my eye the 11350 is set up with a 102m Power Boom, 42m Derrick Mast, and 48m Luffing Jib (boom). The load charts for the 11000 have an exact listing for that same set-up, and looking at a load distance of 28m from center give these results:

LR 11350 - 341 tons
LR 11000 - 226 tons

  Therefore, the smaller crane can deal with about 2/3 of what the larger one can in the "tall" configuration, and any lift that was greater than 226 tons would necessitate the use of the larger crane. Back in May, I made an estimate of the tower section weights and came up with 270 tons on the high end. The sections are probably lighter than my estimate, but this is close enough to maxing out the 11000 that I would say the 11350 was necessary for the job.
  The last sections lifted to the tower were not "full" sections, and therefore much lighter. One could make the argument that the 11000 could have the boom config shortened to deal with the seven full tower sections, and then lengthened to deal with the last two lighter section lifts. This argument assumes that the "full" size tower sections are less than 240 tons.
For future towers at Boca Chica: potentially they could be refined to be lighter and the catch capability omitted, or even the height reduced. Only one catcher can serve multiple launches as long at boosters are not launching simultaneously, and the catch arms could lower a booster onto a waiting SPMT as well as they could onto the nearest launch mount. That allows for a tower that only needs to support the stabiliser and QD arm (and possibly payload/crew access arm). SpaceX hale already demonstrated that stacking with a roller crane is perfectly viable, with loads well within the capacity of the LR11350 used (it was just what was next to the pad at the time, with the LR11000 busy with GSE work). Tim Dodd's video at Starbase already had them mentioning that the launch table was enormously overbuilt and the next one would be significantly slimmed down, so the same may be true for the tower.

I expect the next tower to be full featured again.  Partly so they have a complete spare if a RUD blows the first one up, and partly so they can test the v2 version of the catching arms along with everything else.

Offline Urx

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #24 on: 11/01/2021 03:39 pm »
Which NSF photo sleuths appear to have matched to a Liebherr LR 11000 series crane, suggesting it might be a replacement for Frankencrane.

Frankencrane is LR 11350. So, this is a replacement for the yellow LR 11000 that's currently being used to lift the GSE tanks/cryo shells and ships/boosters on/off the suborbital pad.

For those interested in cranes and fluent in German and have 4 h of time:
https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/omegataupodcast/omegatau-349-kranKonstruktion-3.mp3
Interviews with several Liebherr employees - gets really technical.

What I remember from it regarding model names:
LR11350: Liebherr Raupenkran Subcompany 1 (most but not all Liebherr cranes), lift of 1350t of weight at a small, standardized distance (5-6 m IIRC, but memory may be wrong here).
LR11000 by the same schema has 1000 t.

Offline AstroDave

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #25 on: 11/04/2021 02:46 am »
  The assembly of the new crane is fun to watch. Many thanks to the NSF crew for getting some dedicated footage of the process toady on their live stream.
  The footage from today shows the assembly team putting on extra stabilizers to one of the crawler frames. This may aid in being able to erect the boom from the "side" instead of having the boom in line with the crawlers. Will have to wait and see.


 
  First image is from today's (3 Nov) Boca Chica Production Update thread, and shows one of the stabilizers on a delivery trailer. Again, another fine image from bocachicagal!
Link: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=hl2ss9ls5ithe7mdn65toe3r62&topic=54984.msg2306400#msg2306400

  Second image is screenshot from NSF live feed that shows crew fitting second stabilizer onto the crawler frame. This was at evening twilight, so lighting was not ideal and image shows it.
 
  Third image is screenshot from LR11000 info manual showing how the stabilizers are attached to the crawler frame. Hoping this helps with visualizing what is going on in the grainy worksite picture. The manual can be downloaded from the the Liebherr website.
« Last Edit: 11/04/2021 02:49 am by AstroDave »

Offline litton4

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #26 on: 11/04/2021 09:01 am »
Have nicknames for the LR11000 converged yet?

 I've seen twitter mentions of Cranium as a semilogical progression from Frankencrane...

Maybe X-Crane?

Wouldn't CraneX roll off the tongue better?

Not CraneY McCraneface then?

(x->y? I'll get my coat)
« Last Edit: 11/04/2021 09:02 am by litton4 »
Dave Condliffe

Offline AstroDave

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #27 on: 11/05/2021 05:13 pm »
  The Buckner LR11000 has the shortest version (12m) of the flying jib config in place. During deliveries of boom sections, there was a smaller jib section that showed up that could enable the new crane to have a slightly longer flying jib section. Exciting to see what will happen.
  Also, interested to see if Buckner crane is decommissioned after BigX is online.


-First image is screenshot from NSF Daily Update Video (4 Nov) that shows smaller jib section inside a larger main boom section.

-Second image is a profile shot of the yellow LR11000 from bocachicagal. This is a great shot to reference the set up of the Buckner crane.

-Third image is a crop of the second to show the flying jib config with a yellow arrow pointing out where extra boom sections are installed to make the jib longer. Could see at least one extra section installed here on SpaceX crane, maybe more if they have been delivered. Max length of this flying jib set up is 39m.


Edit:  Appears that crane crew has kept extra boom sections out of current configuration. Looking like set up will be identical to Buckner crane for now.
--Fourth image added from NSF live feed shows extra boom sections on standby. Red outlines a main boom section, and yellow outlines a flying jib boom section.
« Last Edit: 11/05/2021 08:43 pm by AstroDave »

Offline danneely

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #28 on: 11/07/2021 03:55 am »
  The Buckner LR11000 has the shortest version (12m) of the flying jib config in place. During deliveries of boom sections, there was a smaller jib section that showed up that could enable the new crane to have a slightly longer flying jib section. Exciting to see what will happen.
  Also, interested to see if Buckner crane is decommissioned after BigX is online.

I suspect that unless it, or the SpaceX LR1100 is used for building the wide bay it will be.  The construction rate around orbital pad 1 seems to be slowing down with all the really big pieces in place.  They'll still need a tall crane to support the tower construction and backstop the chopsticks for moving the booster around; but the frantic building that needed two big cranes is going to be on pause for a while.  The permitting to start on the second orbital launch installation is still crawling its way through the bureaucracy and even after it's approved there will be a lengthy landing building step needed to build up the mud-flats before any major construction can start.

Offline Johnnyhinbos

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #29 on: 11/07/2021 04:01 am »
  The Buckner LR11000 has the shortest version (12m) of the flying jib config in place. During deliveries of boom sections, there was a smaller jib section that showed up that could enable the new crane to have a slightly longer flying jib section. Exciting to see what will happen.
  Also, interested to see if Buckner crane is decommissioned after BigX is online.

I suspect that unless it, or the SpaceX LR1100 is used for building the wide bay it will be.  The construction rate around orbital pad 1 seems to be slowing down with all the really big pieces in place.  They'll still need a tall crane to support the tower construction and backstop the chopsticks for moving the booster around; but the frantic building that needed two big cranes is going to be on pause for a while.  The permitting to start on the second orbital launch installation is still crawling its way through the bureaucracy and even after it's approved there will be a lengthy landing building step needed to build up the mud-flats before any major construction can start.
They still need to add the lightning suppression to the OLT
John Hanzl. Author, action / adventure www.johnhanzl.com

Offline danneely

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #30 on: 11/07/2021 01:54 pm »
  The Buckner LR11000 has the shortest version (12m) of the flying jib config in place. During deliveries of boom sections, there was a smaller jib section that showed up that could enable the new crane to have a slightly longer flying jib section. Exciting to see what will happen.
  Also, interested to see if Buckner crane is decommissioned after BigX is online.

I suspect that unless it, or the SpaceX LR1100 is used for building the wide bay it will be.  The construction rate around orbital pad 1 seems to be slowing down with all the really big pieces in place.  They'll still need a tall crane to support the tower construction and backstop the chopsticks for moving the booster around; but the frantic building that needed two big cranes is going to be on pause for a while.  The permitting to start on the second orbital launch installation is still crawling its way through the bureaucracy and even after it's approved there will be a lengthy landing building step needed to build up the mud-flats before any major construction can start.
They still need to add the lightning suppression to the OLT

A lightning rod's much smaller than a tower segment, never mind the launch table, everything left is probably going to fall into the same smaller stuff bucket.  They need a big crane for the reach, but they don't need something as massive as the LR11350, and probably don't need two LR11000's tagteaming anything either.  Either of them with a somewhat longer boom+jib combo should be able to do anything left.  If that wasn't the case they wouldn't be taking the frankencrane down yet.

Offline alugobi

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #31 on: 11/07/2021 04:02 pm »
Quote
and even after it's approved there will be a lengthy landing building step needed to build up the mud-flats before any major construction can start.
I remain skeptical that this ever happens.  Isn't the proposed launch rate five per year? 

That's a lot of infrastructure for not much activity.

Offline DanClemmensen

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #32 on: 11/07/2021 04:14 pm »
Quote
and even after it's approved there will be a lengthy landing building step needed to build up the mud-flats before any major construction can start.
I remain skeptical that this ever happens.  Isn't the proposed launch rate five per year? 

That's a lot of infrastructure for not much activity.

That's the orbital launch rate. If they choose to deliver SH and SS using local "hops" to offshore platforms they will need to launch every SH and SS they build or refurbish, and land every SH and SS that needs refurbishment. A short hop is almost certainly the cheapest way to deliver an SS or SH to a "nearby" launch platform. A higher-energy (noisier) suborbital flight of some sort can deliver from there to a more distant launch platform such as Florida. The marginal cost of full orbital flight is supposed to be below $2 million, so I suspect the marginal cost of a hop will be quite low compared to the cost of shipping an SS or SH.

Offline danneely

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #33 on: 11/07/2021 06:39 pm »
Quote
and even after it's approved there will be a lengthy landing building step needed to build up the mud-flats before any major construction can start.
I remain skeptical that this ever happens.  Isn't the proposed launch rate five per year? 

That's a lot of infrastructure for not much activity.

It's not being build for high operational tempo.  It's one part a spare, so they're not grounded for months rebuilding if they have a major RUD on the pad.  And one part a second manufacturing path finder:  They've undoubtedly got a long list of lessons learned from building the first one, and will accumulate second set of issues when they start using it.  Those issues will feed into a revised design; and building that at BC too means they can absorb any new lessons from that while still at a low rate site where they'll matter less if they slow things down.  Then they can build a mature design at the cape and one one of the oil rigs.  Probably just one at first, I suspect there will be enough new lessons to learn from doing it at sea that they'll want to operate one before starting on the second so it can be a v2 design.

Offline Johnnyhinbos

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #34 on: 11/08/2021 02:22 am »
Opens door - looks around.

“Oh, sorry - I thought this room was for talking about SpaceX’s new crane. My mistake.”

Closes door…
John Hanzl. Author, action / adventure www.johnhanzl.com

Offline AstroDave

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #35 on: 11/10/2021 12:17 am »
  Very cool footage from NSF Starbase Live stream showing rigging process for lifting block on Buckner crane today. The footage shows that the Buckner crane is using the extra jib boom section that was delivered for the SpaceX crane. Guess they are going to need a little extra height for the new bay.
  The footage also shows the crane operator using a unique feature of modern cranes and equipment, a remote control! The little yellow, double joy stick box can be used to run most of the crane features from outside the operators cabin. Very convenient in certain circumstances, such as rigging up the lift hook. Watch the video feed if you want to see the remote in action.

Edit:  Since live feeds get time cycled into oblivion after 24 hours, this is a link to NSF daily update video that shows remote being used. Footage is sped up so be prepared to pause it or slow it down to see operator using control box.
  Having trouble linking to specific time. Go to 11:00 to see footage.

« Last Edit: 11/14/2021 03:39 pm by AstroDave »

Offline danneely

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #36 on: 11/14/2021 07:17 pm »
  Very cool footage from NSF Starbase Live stream showing rigging process for lifting block on Buckner crane today. The footage shows that the Buckner crane is using the extra jib boom section that was delivered for the SpaceX crane. Guess they are going to need a little extra height for the new bay.

Probably less height than horizontal reach for installing roof parts after the walls are framed.  Reaching over the walls to service the roof requires much less total trusses if your boom + jib looks like a hockey stick rather than a cane.

Offline AstroDave

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #37 on: 11/21/2021 03:49 pm »
Cross post from BC Production Update thread:
https://twitter.com/RGVaerialphotos/status/1462441724198981635

  Could be the first large piece of steel lifted by the new SpaceX crane. Looking forward to seeing the QD arm put into final configuration.

Edit: After thinking about this for a bit, does it make sense to have a massive piece of steel hanging out at end of QD arm? Leaning towards this being a hood for the launch table QD.
« Last Edit: 11/21/2021 04:03 pm by AstroDave »

Online Horasio

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #38 on: 11/21/2021 06:07 pm »
Edit: After thinking about this for a bit, does it make sense to have a massive piece of steel hanging out at end of QD arm? Leaning towards this being a hood for the launch table QD.

This is precisely what is written in the tweet! (Boooster QD arm hood  ;)

Online DistantTemple

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #39 on: 11/21/2021 06:26 pm »
Edit: After thinking about this for a bit, does it make sense to have a massive piece of steel hanging out at end of QD arm? Leaning towards this being a hood for the launch table QD.

This is precisely what is written in the tweet! (Boooster QD arm hood  ;)
Isn't the tweet incorrect!
The QD aaaarrrmmm (my exaggeration) supplies propellant to the Starship, not the booster!
The booster is supplied by the QD mounted on the launch table.
Therefore Astro Dave is accurate in saying such a heavy item should be for the booster QD, ie, on the launch platform, not the arm.
« Last Edit: 11/21/2021 06:26 pm by DistantTemple »
We can always grow new new dendrites. Reach out and make connections and your world will burst with new insights. Then repose in consciousness.

Offline cdebuhr

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #40 on: 11/21/2021 06:52 pm »
Edit: After thinking about this for a bit, does it make sense to have a massive piece of steel hanging out at end of QD arm? Leaning towards this being a hood for the launch table QD.

This is precisely what is written in the tweet! (Boooster QD arm hood  ;)
Isn't the tweet incorrect!
The QD aaaarrrmmm (my exaggeration) supplies propellant to the Starship, not the booster!
The booster is supplied by the QD mounted on the launch table.
Therefore Astro Dave is accurate in saying such a heavy item should be for the booster QD, ie, on the launch platform, not the arm.
[emphasis added]
Exactly what I had though when I saw the picture.  I think calling it the Booster QD arm hood, was basically accurate, except for the word "arm".  A massive, closeable hood for the booster QD seems like an essential item, and will be a permanent fixture on the launch table.  I don't believe the QD arm (for Starship) will need a hood at all, as it will simply swing out of the way before it gets flame broiled (think the F9 strongback being pulled away after liftoff).

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #41 on: 11/21/2021 07:10 pm »
Edit: After thinking about this for a bit, does it make sense to have a massive piece of steel hanging out at end of QD arm? Leaning towards this being a hood for the launch table QD.

This is precisely what is written in the tweet! (Boooster QD arm hood  ;)
Isn't the tweet incorrect!
The QD aaaarrrmmm (my exaggeration) supplies propellant to the Starship, not the booster!
The booster is supplied by the QD mounted on the launch table.
Therefore Astro Dave is accurate in saying such a heavy item should be for the booster QD, ie, on the launch platform, not the arm.
The launch mount has the Tail Service Mast (so called QD blast hood) which contains within the horizontally moving TSM Umbilical Arm which contains the permanently mounted ground umbilicals and Ground Umbilical Carrier Plate (GSE side Booster QD) which latches onto and umbilicals mate to the boosters permanent flight umbilical carrier plate (FSE side Booster QD) (on SLS the intermediary GUCP carrier plate which is mounted in processing is pyrotechnically separated at T-0 from the core stage). The TSMU is classified as an arm as it rigidly extends and retracts as a single integrated unit from the vehicle and is not a stationary quick disconnect or a set of retracting tethered umbilicals that are pulled away via a gravity loaded or motor driven cable winch to a cargo net on the side of a LUT.

The Starship Integrated Ground Umbilical and Vertical Stabilization System Arm (spelled out to make it clear its purpose) disconnects, retracts its VSS sub-arms and swings out of the way thus doesn't need a protective hood.

Glossary:
GSE = Ground Support Equipment
FSE = Flight Support Equipment
LUT = Launcher Umbilical Tower (other names exist)

EDIT: Any future discussion should move to the following thread or an existing dedicated thread:

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=54355.0
« Last Edit: 11/22/2021 06:01 pm by russianhalo117 »

Offline StuffOfInterest

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #42 on: 01/03/2022 04:43 pm »
Wowzers. They are at the top of the tower.
https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1478057361285779459

Have enough parts for the luffing jib been spotted (including those being "borrowed" at the Wide Bay construction) to let this crane reach the top of the integration tower?  At some point the panels for the roof will need to be lifted and the side covers for the tower still need to be installed.

Offline Johnnyhinbos

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #43 on: 01/03/2022 06:30 pm »
Not to mention the lightning mast
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Offline Robotbeat

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #44 on: 01/06/2022 07:12 pm »
Not to mention the lightning mast
That would be pretty sweet. Shouldn’t be as bad as Florida, but you’d still need protection.
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Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #45 on: 06/25/2022 04:46 pm »
twitter.com/jessica_kirsh/status/1540735692912726016

Quote
So long, Buckey, the Liebherr 11000 crane. Thank you for your #Starship service.

https://twitter.com/jessica_kirsh/status/1540736098200158209

Quote
Buckey going through the USA Border Patrol checkpoint

Offline su27k

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #46 on: 07/15/2022 02:40 am »
https://twitter.com/Michael10711597/status/1547693627777789954

Quote
Another Liebherr LR11000 on way to SpaceX ! Truck carrying liveried track group spotted near Port of Rostock, Germany. Roberts Road/KSC ops.

Offline darkenfast

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #47 on: 07/15/2022 03:02 am »
Hmm...KSC?
Writer of Book and Lyrics for musicals "SCAR", "Cinderella!", and "Aladdin!". Retired Naval Security Group. "I think SCAR is a winner. Great score, [and] the writing is up there with the very best!"
-- Phil Henderson, Composer of the West End musical "The Far Pavilions".

Offline Asteroza

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Re: SpaceX Liebherr LR 11000 series crane
« Reply #48 on: 07/15/2022 05:06 am »
Gonna need another nickname...

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