Dawn Aerospace

[john smith 19]

They operate out of strip near Mt Cook. COVID would of reduced tourist scenic flight air traffic considerably as borders have been closed for two years.

That would explaine the total absence of people in shot.

There is something about the scenery that puts me in mind of the Colorado Rockies, but I'm not really sure why?

I wish them luck with the rest of the test programme and their future plans.

[Robotbeat]

The heat loads for suborbital plane shouldn't be that high, see Virgin SpaceShip2.

Except Mark III is not designed to be a sub-orbital plane.

It's designed as the booster stage for a full up orbital launch vehicle.

Staying with a maximum speed of M3 leaves the upper stage needing to make 19-20Machs to get to orbit.

Historically the rule of thumb has been to split the delta 50/50 booster to US, but F9 its more 1/4-3/4s, so at least M6.

So I think it's safe to say Mark III will need to at least double the top speed of Mark II.

Time will tell how that works out for them.

Just getting to vacuum and above the atmosphere with an initial push helps a lot. ~20% higher Isp and thrust (if optimized), no need for a fairing, no drag, and you can start out with a much lower thrust to weight ratio.

A single stage to orbit stage on the ground is hard because you need 9.3km/s or whatever. But with 15-20% higher Isp and thrust and without needing to worry about aero loads and ability to have a T/W ratio lower than 1? Easy. And 7-8km/s is probably all you need. Piece of cake.

A “pop-up” stage is an appropriate approach to solving these problems.

The spaceplane doesn’t need to operate for long periods at hypersonic speeds in the atmosphere. High supersonic is fine. The aero thermal problem is much easier than an airbreathing hypersonic bomber or whatever.

This is more comparable to XCOR’s Lynx than to SpaceShipOne. Lynx Mk3 was going to do a similar mission to Dawn’s Mark III, just that Dawn is doing it uncrewed.

[TrevorMonty]

From miltary point of view Dawn's spaceplane has significant advantage over pad based LVs. In a war launch pads would be high value targets and take out in short order if possible. Dawn's plane can operate from any airfield making them lot more resilent to attack. Being able to replaced down satellites quickly from remote airfields is big plus.

[john smith 19]

From miltary point of view Dawn's spaceplane has significant advantage over pad based LVs. In a war launch pads would be high value targets and take out in short order if possible. Dawn's plane can operate from any airfield making them lot more resilent to attack. Being able to replaced down satellites quickly from remote airfields is big plus.

If things have gotten to the stage where launch pads are being targetted so will airfields. 

OTOH it does offer the practical benefit of simpler (not simple) operations, provided the S2 is designed for straightforward loading and preparation. That means no solids, no NTO/UDMH type storables.

[trimeta]

If things have gotten to the stage where launch pads are being targetted so will airfields. 

There are far more airfields than launch pads.

Of course, no air-launch vehicle can really launch from just any airfield; specific ground support equipment is needed, and could be targeted. But if that equipment is also mobile, perhaps finding it is harder.

[Zed_Noir]

If things have gotten to the stage where launch pads are being targetted so will airfields. 

There are far more airfields than launch pads.

Of course, no air-launch vehicle can really launch from just any airfield; specific ground support equipment is needed, and could be targeted. But if that equipment is also mobile, perhaps finding it is harder.

In theory and field exercises airfield can be replaced by a stretch of roadway and wheeled GSE vehicles (off road capable military trucks). However keeping the aircraft in service and generating sorties will be much harder.

[john smith 19]

In theory and field exercises airfield can be replaced by a stretch of roadway and wheeled GSE vehicles (off road capable military trucks). However keeping the aircraft in service and generating sorties will be much harder.

True, as has been SOP for Sweden for decades.

OTOH it depends what you want from an airfield.  A 1Km/3280 ft runaway. Plenty.
Apparently the range of common commercial airline runways runs roughly 2438-3962m/8-13000ft according to this guy (https://www.stantec.com/en/ideas/topic/mobility/how-long-is-an-airport-s-runway )

Keep in mind if you want to operate out of an airport you'll need one or more support aircraft. They could well be siderably bigger.

Also consider the recent Skyrora launch. Basically 4 shipping containers (admittedly the one carrying the sounding rocket looks like a special design) in more-or-less an empty field. Going back further you have the V2 on its copper "milking stool" blast deflector with a couple of APC's for the control room.

Anyone asking "How small can you make an ELV" should look at the Black Arrow. 13m long and 2m in diameter to put 135Kg in a 220Km orbit, although a significant part of the delta V was from the Waxwing solid S3.

[edzieba]

Sweden also has roads designed specifically to double as runways (straight, level, widened, specialised markings added, either cleared of obstructions like signage and lighting or with signage and lighting designed to be very rapidly removed to flush ground level, etc), and aircraft designed to launch from roads (more tolerant wheels, short take-off distance, etc), and pre-placed hardened bunkers near roads to store aircraft and ground handling kit. You can't just pick some random roads and aircraft and expect things to work. Many countries that implemented Highway Strips have since ceased the practice, including Sweden.

Launch-site-in-a-box (or the good old TEL) is much more viable than trying to shoehorn a rocket-carrier aircraft into a size and performance that allows it to take off from converted roadways whilst also acting as a launch platform.

[john smith 19]

Launch-site-in-a-box (or the good old TEL) is much more viable than trying to shoehorn a rocket-carrier aircraft into a size and performance that allows it to take off from converted roadways whilst also acting as a launch platform.

On that basis Skyrora is a more credible candidate for this sort of scenario. Those picturse of the Iclandic launch site show essentially an empty field with 4 shipping containers in it.

[libra]

Are they related to the late XCOR and their Lynx rocketplane ?

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22dawn+aerospace%22%22XCOR%22+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fparabolicarc.com&client=firefox-b-d&sxsrf=ALiCzsboVYqXAKkf2wTDQBsqVv3Qd1DRLg%3A1666704772657&ei=hOVXY9HfJ5GWaaDzozA&ved=0ahUKEwjRsa2Pv_v6AhURSxoKHaD5CAYQ4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=%22dawn+aerospace%22%22XCOR%22+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fparabolicarc.com&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EANKBAhBGAFKBAhGGABQwAVY7BRgthZoAXAAeACAATuIAcQCkgEBNpgBAKABAcABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz

[su27k]

https://twitter.com/DawnAerospace/status/1600219483985293312

$20 million for spaceplanes and green satellite propulsion! 🎉🛰️🌱

We are proud to announce Dawn Aerospace has secured #funding from Kiwi investors -
@IcehouseVenture, @gd1_vc and @movac_vc 👏

#spacetech #vc #capitalraise

[TrevorMonty]

Aurora II now has a rocket engine, not enough for 100km suborbital flights but enough to do some high altitude flight testing. I think the two tests in one day were engine not flight tests.

https://twitter.com/DawnAerospace/status/1605702819301842944?t=Uhig3a8YgyShH59_xDhEvw&s=19

[FutureSpaceTourist]

https://twitter.com/dawnaerospace/status/1620697153336401921

A milestone for hydrazine replacement: we now have 50 Dawn #satellite thrusters in orbit, all powered by non-toxic propellants! 🛰️

To celebrate, @Stefan__Powell has written an update on #nitrous - why people love it, its drawbacks, and the road ahead👇

https://www.dawnaerospace.com/latest-news/prevalence-of-nitrous-based-in-space-propellants

[FutureSpaceTourist]

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1630957313837113346

Khaki Rodway of Dawn Aerospace says at #NSRC2023 this morning that the company plans to start rocket-powered test flights of its Mk II Aurora spaceplane this month in New Zealand; subscale prototype of its Mk III vehicle, capable of going up to 100 km.

[FutureSpaceTourist]

More context:

https://twitter.com/spacecom/status/1630955318669893636

Khaki Rodway, Dawn Aerospace: Building a two-stage to orbit spaceplane. Started with subscale jet powered version to test out systems and air frame, flew 47 times. Concluded flights in September. #nsrc2023

Jet engine replaced with rocket engine, did a tie down test. Will fly a rocket powered flight test later this month. #nsrc2023

Rodway: Phase II of the flight system is suborbital flights above 100 km (Karman line) with payload. Dawn Mk-II Aurora and Mk-III are remotely piloted. Hope to have Phase II completed by the end of the year. Mk-III wouldbe capable of deploying satellites to orbit.

Rodway: Development and testing being done in New Zealand. Will be brought to the USA. If Phase II is completed this year, will be in operation on suborbital flights by this time in 2024. #nsrc2023

Rodway: Would like to have a vehicle in every spaceport. #nsrc2023

[Robotbeat]

I actually like this concept a lot. Like XCOR’s Lynx but uncrewed (which honestly makes more sense nowadays, although ironically makes it harder to get approval in the US! …hence New Zealand flight testing…).

It’s a pretty straightforward path to HTHL reusable space launch, starting at low performance reusable first stage but with rockets, which are scalable smoothly all the way (potentially) to orbit as performance improvements are done.

HTHL does have advantages in terms of launch sites, which are getting crowded now.

[TrevorMonty]

There is potential for Aurora MK2 to generate a good revenue stream for Dawn.

[john smith 19]

It’s a pretty straightforward path to HTHL reusable space launch, starting at low performance reusable first stage but with rockets, which are scalable smoothly all the way (potentially) to orbit as performance improvements are done.

AFAIK there are two 2 stage HTO aircraft systems that were actually built. Both in the 1930's and both designed to carry passengers at slower speed and the second stage to carry mail, across the Atlantic IIRC. Look up Mercury Maia.

IOW the experience for this sort of systems is both a)Very small b)Very old.

IIRC Len Cornier, ex-North American Aviation was one of the strongetst advocates of this concept but when you compare the 300+secs of any rocket that's not burnging H2 and the 3 000+ secs of an air breather your design has to deliver something very special to justify an all-rocket system. 

HTHL does have advantages in terms of launch sites, which are getting crowded now.

That's less a matter of the takeoff site as the 1000s of Km of down-range due to their history of ICBMs

[EDIT. It comes down to this. Does their cunning plan eliminate a stage? Two stages is the minimum number for an orbital launcher in common usage. If they can't match that then you're looking at two unique vehicles  because of sizing (unless they  plan to implement a horizontal biemese concept, which would be quite bold) and some kind of upper stage to get the final yard up the hill.
 If they are really going TSTO then they are going to need some orbit-grade TPS to survive re-entry. We know that's possible because Shuttle did it. The question is wheather it's commercially affordable  ]



But we'll see. It's a bit more plausible than Radian.

[Action]

IIRC Len Cornier, ex-North American Aviation

I think it's Len Cormier.

[john smith 19]

IIRC Len Cornier, ex-North American Aviation

I think it's Len Cormier.

You're right.  It's been a long time since I met him.