Author Topic: Dawn Aerospace  (Read 83824 times)

Offline Gliderflyer

Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #40 on: 03/04/2023 11:47 pm »
I actually like this concept a lot. Like XCOR’s Lynx but uncrewed (which honestly makes more sense nowadays, although ironically makes it harder to get approval in the US! …hence New Zealand flight testing…).

It’s a pretty straightforward path to HTHL reusable space launch, starting at low performance reusable first stage but with rockets, which are scalable smoothly all the way (potentially) to orbit as performance improvements are done.

HTHL does have advantages in terms of launch sites, which are getting crowded now.
They are very much like XCOR (they even use CSJ engines). I wonder if they will realize why tip rudders are nice once they start expanding the flight envelope; I wouldn't be surprised if it gets more Lynx-like in the future.

I also wonder if they will eventually evolve to something similar to XCOR's orbital concept.
I tried it at home

Offline john smith 19

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #41 on: 03/06/2023 04:59 pm »
They are very much like XCOR (they even use CSJ engines). I wonder if they will realize why tip rudders are nice once they start expanding the flight envelope; I wouldn't be surprised if it gets more Lynx-like in the future.

I also wonder if they will eventually evolve to something similar to XCOR's orbital concept.
Sounds plausible.

But the more I dig into TSTO HTOL concepts the more doubts I have.  :(

My little design game for Radian made it very tough to see how it was possible to make orbit. You have to pack so much into such a small structural fraction because a rocket Isp is about 1/6 what an air breather can give you (while it can breath air of course).

I had great respect for the XCOR crew and I really wanted them to succeed but I still can't figure out how they were going to get to orbit, even with a two stage Lynx. Next to Reaction Engines they were the "last men standing" (I think Masten was formed after them and Armadillo shut down before them) from that wave of space startups.  :(
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Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #42 on: 03/23/2023 11:27 pm »
https://twitter.com/dawnaerospace/status/1639060304264056832

Quote
✅Dawn's Mk-II Aurora spaceplane has been certified for rocket-powered flight! 🚀An update from our CEO, @Stefan__Powell:

https://www.dawnaerospace.com/latest-news/certified-and-ready-for-rocket-powered-flight

Quote
Certified and Ready for Rocket-Powered Flight
Mar 24

Mk-II Aurora Integrated Ground Test

By Stefan Powell, CEO

I am excited to announce we have received certification from the Civil Aviation Authority of New Zealand (CAA) for the imminent rocket-powered flight campaign of our Mk-II Aurora spaceplane. The mission of the Mk-II Aurora is to fly to space twice in a day and, in doing so, demonstrate that rocket-powered systems can be as reusable as commercial aircraft. This marks the first time a remotely piloted, rocket-powered vehicle has been certified for flight out of a civil airport.

Certification as an aircraft is a crucial step towards our mission, as it allows us to operate without excluding other airspace users. This enables us to integrate with existing airspace and fly as frequently as the vehicle permits, rather than as often as we can clear the airspace.

In the past, utilising surrogate jet engines, we have achieved two flights within hours and four flights in a day. Rapid reusability is a key property that enables both swift iteration in development and unparalleled utility of the end product.

Aside from being a key technology demonstrator, the Mk-II holds significant commercial promise as a suborbital vehicle, spanning a wide range of applications such as earth monitoring, microgravity research, disaster management, and in-situ atmospheric measurements - providing unprecedented enhancements to weather and climate models.

Our team has been diligently designing and building the Mk-II Aurora spaceplane since 2018. We have completed 48 test flights using jet engines, validating all non-rocket systems.

We have now also concluded static integrated testing of the Mk-II Aurora engine. During the rocket engine's development, it was fired 112 times, including seven instances where it was integrated with the vehicle.

With vehicle certification and integration testing completed, we are thrilled to announce that rocket-powered flights are set to begin within the next month. 

Initial flights will continue to follow a build-up approach, as we have done in the past. The first flights will reach modest speeds and altitudes while aiming to maintain the rapid test cadence we have previously demonstrated using surrogate jet engines.

Exciting times ahead!

Offline Lampyridae

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #43 on: 03/24/2023 11:05 am »
Small note: it's hard to see in their pic but the Mk-III has two pods for what appear to be air-breathing engines. Likely for self-ferry, loiter and return to launch (takeoff?) site.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #44 on: 03/24/2023 05:16 pm »
Small note: it's hard to see in their pic but the Mk-III has two pods for what appear to be air-breathing engines. Likely for self-ferry, loiter and return to launch (takeoff?) site.
Think I can see them, easy to mistake for rocket engines.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #45 on: 03/25/2023 05:11 am »
Image of the ground test.
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Offline john smith 19

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #46 on: 03/25/2023 09:14 am »
Image of the ground test.
Looks like it could be narrow enough to fit in that shipping container.
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Offline Yiosie

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #47 on: 04/05/2023 06:17 pm »
Dawn flies rocket-powered spaceplane [dated Apr. 5]

Quote from: SpaceNews
Dawn Aerospace completed its first series of rocket-powered flights last week.

Mk-II Aurora, a scaled down version of the spaceplane Dawn is developing for commercial operations, took to the skies March 29, 30 and 31 from New Zealand’s Gentanner Aerodrome.

The initial test campaign validated key flight systems and demonstrated the benefit of rapid reusability, Dawn CEO Stefan Powell told SpaceNews.

During the first flight, the Mk-II Aurora consumed more fuel than anticipated due to a leak in the propellant system. The next day, Dawn engineers removed the Mk-II Aurora engine, took out the oxidizer tank and found the leak.

“It was reasonably trivial to fix that, put it back together and fly again,” Powell said. “That speaks to just how different this concept is than a regular rocket. Not only would you have not gotten the vehicle back, but you wouldn’t have been able to execute a repair and show that it works in the same day.”

<snip>

The Mk-II is designed to reach an altitude of 20 kilometers. During initial flight tests, the vehicle flew to roughly 2,000 meters and traveled at a maximum speed of 315 kilometers per hour.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #48 on: 04/05/2023 06:45 pm »
Max altitude of 20km seems bit low for suborbital vehicle. If it can still provide a few minutes of zeroG then they should have viable business.

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #49 on: 04/05/2023 07:12 pm »
Max altitude of 20km seems bit low for suborbital vehicle. If it can still provide a few minutes of zeroG then they should have viable business.
That is not a typo  for MK-II. Mk-III will be much higher and carry an expendable second stage to reach orbit.
« Last Edit: 04/05/2023 07:16 pm by russianhalo117 »

Offline whitelancer64

Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #50 on: 04/05/2023 07:25 pm »
Max altitude of 20km seems bit low for suborbital vehicle. If it can still provide a few minutes of zeroG then they should have viable business.

They've said for a while that Phase II tests will end up sending the Mk-II plane to 100 km.

20 km may be the upper limit for Phase I testing.
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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #51 on: 04/05/2023 08:29 pm »
This article from Eric Berger about the company clears up the confusion here:

Quote
The test campaign, which is taking place from the Glentanner Aerodrome in New Zealand, will eventually see this vehicle top out at about 20 kilometers. The lessons learned from this plane will be put into a second version of the Mk-II Aurora, which could take flight before the end of this year or early in 2024.

In an interview, Dawn Aerospace chief executive Stefan Powell said this second vehicle would have a far lighter structure, a more powerful engine, and other features that would allow it to climb far higher. The goal is to fly the spaceplane to an altitude of 100 km, above the internationally recognized boundary of space.

In other words, there are two Mk-II rocket planes, the one they're currently flying (which is capped at 20km), and the one they'll build using lessons learned from the current flight campaign (which will get to over 100km).

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #52 on: 04/05/2023 10:39 pm »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #53 on: 04/06/2023 12:17 am »
https://twitter.com/wehavemeco/status/1643685079745536010

Quote
🎙️ Today on the show, I’m joined by Stefan Powell, CEO of @DawnAerospace, to talk about their big news: they flew their rocket-powered spaceplane 3 times in 3 days last week!

We chat about the company, their plans for the future, and their flights.

https://mainenginecutoff.com/podcast/244

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #54 on: 04/06/2023 12:45 am »
I love it. I actually do think that at the very small scale, HTOL isn't totally nuts. And if it's in a place with rational air space regulations like New Zealand (not the US, obv), then you can make it a drone instead of crewed.

(This thing is tiny, right? Like 4.5 meters long? This is the same scale as one of those big hobby R/C 1:4 scale fighter jets.)

At this scale, you can be a garage startup and maybe hope to get to the Karman Line. Reusably. Then scale up and do maybe microlaunch or something with an HTOL first stage, ala Xcor's Lynx MkIII.
« Last Edit: 04/06/2023 12:50 am by Robotbeat »
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Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #55 on: 04/06/2023 12:55 am »
I love it. I actually do think that at the very small scale, HTOL isn't totally nuts. And if it's in a place with rational air space regulations like New Zealand (not the US, obv), then you can make it a drone instead of crewed.

(This thing is tiny, right? Like 4.5 meters long? This is the same scale as one of those big hobby R/C 1:4 scale fighter jets.)

At this scale, you can be a garage startup and maybe hope to get to the Karman Line. Reusably. Then scale up and do maybe microlaunch or something with an HTOL first stage, ala Xcor's Lynx MkIII.
Statement): Then scale up and do maybe microlaunch or something with an HTOL first stage, ala Xcor's Lynx MkIII.

Reply): That is the exact goal of the large full size Mk-III which will be a reusable hypersonic HTOL flyback/glide booster stage with an initially expendable second stage and PLF. Mk-II also functions as an upper stage testbed concept.
« Last Edit: 04/06/2023 01:00 am by russianhalo117 »

Offline Vahe231991

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #56 on: 04/07/2023 03:52 am »
Max altitude of 20km seems bit low for suborbital vehicle. If it can still provide a few minutes of zeroG then they should have viable business.
That is not a typo  for MK-II. Mk-III will be much higher and carry an expendable second stage to reach orbit.
Even if the Mk-III design carries an expendable second stage to reach orbit, it could in some ways behave more like a single-stage-to-orbit spaceplane than a TSTO spaceplane because it is not designed to be launched from a mother aircraft or atop a large rocket stage.

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #57 on: 04/07/2023 04:40 am »
Max altitude of 20km seems bit low for suborbital vehicle. If it can still provide a few minutes of zeroG then they should have viable business.
That is not a typo  for MK-II. Mk-III will be much higher and carry an expendable second stage to reach orbit.
Even if the Mk-III design carries an expendable second stage to reach orbit, it could in some ways behave more like a single-stage-to-orbit spaceplane than a TSTO spaceplane because it is not designed to be launched from a mother aircraft or atop a large rocket stage.
That is a flat out no for SSTO. There are no sustainer engines on any stage burning from horizontal take-off all the way to the inital orbital insertion during the burn of the flight to even be called an SSTO. A carrier aircraft is classed as Stage-0.
« Last Edit: 04/07/2023 04:47 am by russianhalo117 »

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #58 on: 04/07/2023 02:34 pm »
That is a flat out no for SSTO. There are no sustainer engines on any stage burning from horizontal take-off all the way to the inital orbital insertion during the burn of the flight to even be called an SSTO. A carrier aircraft is classed as Stage-0.
If you're counting the carrier aircraft as Stage 0, then the rocket itself (which has only one stage) would be an SSTO, no? Although if you wanted to call the plane Stage 1 and the rocket Stage 2 (thus making it a TSTO), I wouldn't argue.

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #59 on: 04/07/2023 05:11 pm »
That is a flat out no for SSTO. There are no sustainer engines on any stage burning from horizontal take-off all the way to the inital orbital insertion during the burn of the flight to even be called an SSTO. A carrier aircraft is classed as Stage-0.
If you're counting the carrier aircraft as Stage 0, then the rocket itself (which has only one stage) would be an SSTO, no? Although if you wanted to call the plane Stage 1 and the rocket Stage 2 (thus making it a TSTO), I wouldn't argue.
The previous poster was referring to the Mk-III version which is flying the second stage therefore it is TSTO. It is not being released from a carrier aircraft. Dawn Aerospace is classing their system as a TSTO system.
« Last Edit: 04/07/2023 05:12 pm by russianhalo117 »

 

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