Poll

Which missions should be included on the manifest list as space tourism?

Only missions with a participant who paid for their trip (so not including MS-19)
2 (10%)
Current proposed list (non-professional astronauts with at most a few months training on a commercially purchased flight)
4 (20%)
Any non-professional astronaut mission with a seat bought commercially (so include Helen Sharman, but not Bill Nelson etc)
8 (40%)
Any mission with non-professional astronauts regardless who pays (so include Helen Sharman & Bill Nelson etc)
6 (30%)

Total Members Voted: 20

Voting closed: 05/24/2021 11:30 pm


Author Topic: Space tourism resurgence and manifest  (Read 46324 times)

Offline edzieba

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Re: Space tourism resurgence and manifest
« Reply #40 on: 07/22/2021 12:48 pm »
Closest would probably be Simulator Sickness ('VR sickness' now that's a consumer product), where you have no change in perceived g-vector (i.e. you are sitting still) but the horizon (visually perceived orientation) and apparent acceleration (from optical flow) are varying wildly. Not the near-total absence of vestibular sensation of zero g, but probably the best analog for ground testing beyond what you can do in 25 seconds on a Vomit Comet.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Space tourism resurgence and manifest
« Reply #41 on: 07/23/2021 12:32 am »
SAS is space adaptation syndrome. Perhaps Spacely Spacelines can partially pre-screen for that by ferrying the pax out to the platforms on small Zodiacs.

I can tell you from personal experience that zero-gee feels nothing at all like anything water-related, whether it's a ride across choppy waters in small boats or even underwater neutral buoyancy. The Zodiac ride hits your inner ear with continuously shifting acceleration changes while zero-gee is a constant lack of acceleration. In an underwater neutral buoyancy situation there is still a very definite up and down. While you are technically weightless, your insides aren't. You can tell if your head is pointed toward the bottom of the pool because the fluids in your inner ear pool downward. You can feel your internal organs shift position  as you change from head up to head down. Breathing feels different in different positions as the compression of your diaphragm changes. In zero-gee, on the other hand, it's all the same.

Whereas in 0g, unless you move something violently enough to generate centripetal accelerations everything just floats without any directional pressure (and associated sensations) at all. It's a unique situation that we don't have a chance to get used to here on the ground (or water).  That's probably why experienced pilots who do not get airsick and sailors who do not get seasick have all tossed their cookies in space.
Did you enjoy it or giveup your breakfast?

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk


Offline laszlo

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Re: Space tourism resurgence and manifest
« Reply #42 on: 07/23/2021 11:06 am »
SAS is space adaptation syndrome. Perhaps Spacely Spacelines can partially pre-screen for that by ferrying the pax out to the platforms on small Zodiacs.

I can tell you from personal experience that zero-gee feels nothing at all like anything water-related, whether it's a ride across choppy waters in small boats or even underwater neutral buoyancy. The Zodiac ride hits your inner ear with continuously shifting acceleration changes while zero-gee is a constant lack of acceleration. In an underwater neutral buoyancy situation there is still a very definite up and down. While you are technically weightless, your insides aren't. You can tell if your head is pointed toward the bottom of the pool because the fluids in your inner ear pool downward. You can feel your internal organs shift position  as you change from head up to head down. Breathing feels different in different positions as the compression of your diaphragm changes. In zero-gee, on the other hand, it's all the same.

Whereas in 0g, unless you move something violently enough to generate centripetal accelerations everything just floats without any directional pressure (and associated sensations) at all. It's a unique situation that we don't have a chance to get used to here on the ground (or water).  That's probably why experienced pilots who do not get airsick and sailors who do not get seasick have all tossed their cookies in space.
Did you enjoy it or giveup your breakfast?

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

Thoroughly enjoyed it and hung onto my breakfast. It was magic and mind-altering, hope to do it again someday. If the prices for the tourist flights ever fall to mere-mortal affordable levels it'd be really fun to try 0g in a continuous chunk instead of 30-second snippets.

Offline laszlo

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Re: Space tourism resurgence and manifest
« Reply #43 on: 07/24/2021 11:43 am »
No commercial space astronaut wings for space tourists:
...

I'm mystified by the fuss about government-certified astronaut wings. What good are they to anyone outside of a government-run space program? A 0g selfie would be a lot more useful for impressing friends and family and getting dates. Flight log entries take care of documenting experience for jobs. So what am I missing?

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Space tourism resurgence and manifest
« Reply #44 on: 07/24/2021 11:00 pm »
Comparison of some space tourism vehicles  ;)

https://twitter.com/teslaownerssv/status/1418805863914131456

Quote
Evolution of the spacecraft

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Space tourism resurgence and manifest
« Reply #45 on: 07/24/2021 11:05 pm »
No commercial space astronaut wings for space tourists:
...

I'm mystified by the fuss about government-certified astronaut wings. What good are they to anyone outside of a government-run space program? A 0g selfie would be a lot more useful for impressing friends and family and getting dates. Flight log entries take care of documenting experience for jobs. So what am I missing?

Kudos and the fact that a lot of people assumed spaceflight participants would get them. Not least as SS1 and SS2 crew were awarded government-certified wings.

Also VG and Blue have talked a lot about their passengers being astronauts and getting wings. So recognition by the FAA would make that official and not just a marketing boast.

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Space tourism resurgence and manifest
« Reply #46 on: 07/25/2021 12:03 am »
https://twitter.com/wordsmithfl/status/1419059440834256899

Quote
From the March 2, 2003 @Florida_Today ... which lists @jkelly3rd as "space team leader" ... The article predicts the need for new spacecraft to start space adventure tourism. Now that @virgingalactic and @blueorigin have flown, we'll find out if the authors were right.

https://twitter.com/wordsmithfl/status/1419061344150736898

Quote
In 2003, Futron predicted 60 orbital tourist flights by 2020, and tens of thousands of suborbital hops taken by pay-per-view voyagers, according to the @Florida_Today article.

The Futron report was often cited around the X-prize and VGs formation etc. It was clearly too optimistic about the supply side of space tourism, but will be interesting to see over the next decade how good the demand side forecast was.

Offline joek

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Re: Space tourism resurgence and manifest
« Reply #47 on: 07/25/2021 12:35 am »
... It was clearly too optimistic about the supply side of space tourism, but will be interesting to see over the next decade how good the demand side forecast was.

That is an understatement. Futron also predicted a commercial launch market in the late 90's earl 00's (nothing to do with tourism) which never appeared. Ask Boeing, LM and (eventually) ULA how that turned out.

That said, don't mean to be overly cynical. Think we are seeing a turnaround (at least I hope). Everything in its time, and I hope its time has finally come.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Space tourism resurgence and manifest
« Reply #48 on: 07/25/2021 05:11 am »
Jeff Foust coauthored that, BTW.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline joek

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Re: Space tourism resurgence and manifest
« Reply #49 on: 07/25/2021 09:14 pm »
Jeff Foust coauthored that, BTW.
Yup; report attached for posterity. Read it and weep.
Edit: and lest we pick on Futron too much, attached is another from Tauri of the same vintage.
(Several more where those came from.)
« Last Edit: 07/25/2021 09:24 pm by joek »

Offline su27k

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Re: Space tourism resurgence and manifest
« Reply #50 on: 07/27/2021 05:42 am »
Will suborbital space tourism take a suborbital trajectory?

Jeff Foust's overview article at thespacereview.com

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Space tourism resurgence and manifest
« Reply #51 on: 07/27/2021 05:03 pm »

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Space tourism resurgence and manifest
« Reply #52 on: 07/30/2021 04:11 pm »
Ive elided some job posting details below (see original post); highlighted bit is interesting for this thread:

https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1421139207699959813

Quote
A fascinating human spaceflight job opening at SpaceX:

twitter.com/spacecareers/status/1421138581641379844

Quote
SpaceX is seeking a Astronaut Operations Integrator for a full-time position in Hawthorne, CA, United States. This is requisition R020747 and more details are available at:

https://boards.greenhouse.io/spacex/jobs/5429136002?gh_jid=5429136002

Quote
ASTRONAUT OPERATIONS INTEGRATOR
Hawthorne, CA, United States

SpaceX was founded under the belief that a future where humanity is out exploring the stars is fundamentally more exciting than one where we are not. Today SpaceX is actively developing the technologies to make this possible, with the ultimate goal of enabling human life on Mars.

ASTRONAUT OPERATIONS INTEGRATOR

The Astronaut Operations Team is responsible for integrating all humans that will fly on SpaceX missions. This will include guiding our future crew members through the development, planning, training, mission and post-mission phases. With the pace of human spaceflight increasing at SpaceX, both high level and extremely detailed coordination of astronaut time is critical to mission readiness and success. As an Astronaut Operations Integrator you will be responsible for developing tools and processes to help with managing astronaut schedules all while ensuring smooth operations throughout their time at SpaceX.

RESPONSIBILITIES:

Manage and maintain the comprehensive schedule of all active SpaceX astronaut flight crews
Develop the plan and schedule, integrate internal and external constraints, identify conflicts, and drive resolution
Communicate plans and schedules to stakeholders
Devise, uphold, and improve scheduling tools or processes that identify, analyze, and brief potential constraints on a monthly, weekly, and daily basis
Work closely with external customer schedulers to integrate travel and availability constraints for each crew member
Ensure that all crew members have a positive experience working with and flying on SpaceX missions from assignment to post flight

[]

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Space tourism resurgence and manifest
« Reply #53 on: 07/31/2021 04:54 pm »
https://twitter.com/spacex/status/1421514177936453633

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More than 20 astronauts from around the world are currently going through SpaceX human spaceflight training

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Space tourism resurgence and manifest
« Reply #54 on: 08/16/2021 02:19 pm »
https://twitter.com/SpaceAdventures/status/1427268161573900289

Quote
On a Virgin Galactic suborbital flight, passengers will look down on where they launched from. On a #Soyuz #space flight to the #ISS, our clients circle Earth every 90 min,
@yousuckMZ
 will see sunrises and sunsets, oceans, continents and weather systems. WOW! #SpaceflightChoices

Offline edzieba

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Re: Space tourism resurgence and manifest
« Reply #55 on: 08/16/2021 02:38 pm »
https://twitter.com/spacex/status/1421514177936453633

Quote
More than 20 astronauts from around the world are currently going through SpaceX human spaceflight training
4x Inspiration4 crewmembers
4x Crew-3 (publicly announced)
4x Crew-4 (publicly announced)
4x Likely Crew-5 (given training time)
That leaves at least another 4, potentially for Crew-6 early training, or for Axiom Mission 1.

Offline darkenfast

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Re: Space tourism resurgence and manifest
« Reply #56 on: 08/16/2021 05:52 pm »
Don't forget that many missions will have back-ups undergoing training as well.
Writer of Book and Lyrics for musicals "SCAR", "Cinderella!", and "Aladdin!". Retired Naval Security Group. "I think SCAR is a winner. Great score, [and] the writing is up there with the very best!"
-- Phil Henderson, Composer of the West End musical "The Far Pavilions".

Offline su27k

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Re: Space tourism resurgence and manifest
« Reply #57 on: 09/01/2021 04:31 am »
https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1432698062531661825

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Jefferies survey of high net worth individuals' brand recognition of space companies:

SpaceX 89%
Virgin Galactic 86%
Blue Origin 52%
United Launch Alliance 10%


https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1432703395970928653

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Jefferies survey of high net worth individuals' priorities for booking a space tourism flight:

Safety 86%
Overall experience 50%
Duration 39%
Spaceflight experience 37%

Jefferies' question for these answers: "What would be the most important attributes when you think about potentially traveling to space?"



Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Space tourism resurgence and manifest
« Reply #58 on: 09/16/2021 09:25 am »
Congratulations to Inspiration 4 and SpaceX for an amazing and historic launch!

Heres a great article that puts the achievement into context:

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/spacex-inspiration4-launch/620093/

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The Space Tourists Are in Control Now
SpaceX just launched four private citizens into orbit for a three-day trip.

By Marina Koren

Couple of extracts:

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The tourism era of American spaceflight is really, truly here. Yes, Jeff Bezos and Richard Branson flew to space this summer to inaugurate their space-tourism businesses and show off their high-flying services to their future customers, who will enrich the men even further. But their trips dont compare to what the Inspiration4 crew has signed up for.

Quote
Now SpaceX isnt just doing spaceflight as well as NASA did; its doing things NASA never attempted.

Offline jebbo

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Re: Space tourism resurgence and manifest
« Reply #59 on: 09/16/2021 09:30 am »
As above, congratulations to SpaceX and the entire Inspiration4 team!
Fantastic launch and a mission that lives up to its name.

It made me start wondering about future tourist flights. AX-1 to AX-4 seem reasonably solid, but is there any news on the supposed Space Adventures Crew Dragon Launch?

Wikipedia has it as late-21 / 1st half 22 but the Space Adventures site is far less specific.

https://spaceadventures.com/private-mission-available-on-the-spacex-dragon/

--- Tony

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