SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 10

[DreamyPickle]

Is there any indication that SpaceX might be drilling for gas? That would put them on the bad side of environmental groups, better to just buy methane from somewhere else.

Alternatively they might be building an Sabatier plant on Earth: even though the output would be much more expensive than commercial LNG the experience that comes with operating a fixed facility on Earth would be extremely useful.

[guckyfan]

If I’m doing this calculation right, each kg of LOx needs about 0.6-1.2MJ of electrical energy, right? Assuming something similar for Liquid methane, that means liquefaction is only like 1/20th to 1/10th the full chemical energy (or the energy it’d take to synthesize that methane).
Still a nice start on ISRU tech.

If I understand the process correctly from producing LOX to liquify the nitrogen too is only a small step, requiring not very much extra energy. The nitrogen can then be used to liqify methane without extra energy consumption. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Robotbeat]

If I’m doing this calculation right, each kg of LOx needs about 0.6-1.2MJ of electrical energy, right? Assuming something similar for Liquid methane, that means liquefaction is only like 1/20th to 1/10th the full chemical energy (or the energy it’d take to synthesize that methane).
Still a nice start on ISRU tech.

If I understand the process correctly from producing LOX to liquify the nitrogen too is only a small step, requiring not very much extra energy. The nitrogen can then be used to liqify methane without extra energy consumption. Correct me if I am wrong.

Yeah, and can also be used to subcool the liquid oxygen and methane and purify the methane by freezing out the other stuff.

[baking]

So they poured a concrete pad, put the tent up next to the orbital launch mount, and lined the sides with shelves which remained empty.  Now, they have taken the tent and frame down and from Mary's photo today, they are removing the shelves.  Apparently, they prefer their current organizational system.  Much better for those of us who like to spy on them.

[eriblo]

If I’m doing this calculation right, each kg of LOx needs about 0.6-1.2MJ of electrical energy, right? Assuming something similar for Liquid methane, that means liquefaction is only like 1/20th to 1/10th the full chemical energy (or the energy it’d take to synthesize that methane).
Still a nice start on ISRU tech.

If I understand the process correctly from producing LOX to liquify the nitrogen too is only a small step, requiring not very much extra energy. The nitrogen can then be used to liqify methane without extra energy consumption. Correct me if I am wrong.

Yeah, and can also be used to subcool the liquid oxygen and methane and purify the methane by freezing out the other stuff.

It is not a free lunch - the waste gas stream in a cryogenic oxygen/cryogenic nitrogen plant is generally used to cool the incoming gas to increase efficiency.

[Johnnyhinbos]

Since SpaceX has a Spot robot living down at the launch pad I thought I'd post this here as well. Cheers to Zeus!


https://twitter.com/BostonDynamics/status/1343999009984307202

[FutureSpaceTourist]

https://twitter.com/rgvaerialphotos/status/1344308198015168514

Old gas well site, September to December difference.
#spacex #bocachica

[Johnnyhinbos]

The bunker / blockhouse that was transported to the launch site has been relocated to, uh, some place else. Per LabPadre’s livestream

[dsleestak]

The bunker / blockhouse that was transported to the launch site has been relocated to, uh, some place else. Per LabPadre’s livestream

It has been moved near the bunkers by the tank farm (per Labpadre's new cam). I assume it will be put in place there soon.

[Johnnyhinbos]

The bunker / blockhouse that was transported to the launch site has been relocated to, uh, some place else. Per LabPadre’s livestream

It has been moved near the bunkers by the tank farm (per Labpadre's new cam). I assume it will be put in place there soon.

Jeeze - didn’t even know that camera existed. Doomed, I say, I’m doomed!

[baking]

The bunker / blockhouse that was transported to the launch site has been relocated to, uh, some place else. Per LabPadre’s livestream

It has been moved near the bunkers by the tank farm (per Labpadre's new cam). I assume it will be put in place there soon.

Jeeze - didn’t even know that camera existed. Doomed, I say, I’m doomed!

It was mentioned in this thread on 12/24 and I can honestly say that I thought it was a joke.  You are not alone.

EDIT: It's probably a safe room, by the way.

[MTom]

The bunker / blockhouse that was transported to the launch site has been relocated to, uh, some place else. Per LabPadre’s livestream

It has been moved near the bunkers by the tank farm (per Labpadre's new cam). I assume it will be put in place there soon.

Screenshot of the new LabPadre cam.

[billh]

Wow, two rectangular things with silvery guts inside, looks like coldbox! Aka main part of air liquefying plant. We probably see now start of building SpaceX fuel production plant!

Those things need to be vertical when they're operating. That explains the rather robust pads they're pouring nearby.

[russianhalo117]

Wow, two rectangular things with silvery guts inside, looks like coldbox! Aka main part of air liquefying plant. We probably see now start of building SpaceX fuel production plant!

Those things need to be vertical when they're operating. That explains the rather robust pads they're pouring nearby.

Once the finish bolting together the containerized sections they will be a single unit like others on site. They are still heavily disassembled and inside their transport frames (some models have the option to leave the frames integrated).

[baking]

I saw some red I-beams next to the Orbital Launch Mount in RGV's aerial video from Jan. 1 and I thought it might be for the OLM.  Further research shows they were delivered on Dec. 17 (photographed by Mary), were stored near the landing pad on Dec. 22 (RGV flyover) before being moved to the current location more recently.

They were delivered with some metal roofing material so, spoiler alert, they appear to be roof beams for the new structure at the OLM tank farm.  The size seems to match up with four longer beams for the larger section and four smaller beams for the smaller one.  They are circled in red below.

I will also note new electrical conduits in orange.  The feeds are coming from the corner of the site near the road and there appear to be three sets of U-shaped conduits (down, across, and up) terminating possibly in yet another potential structure near the small one currently under construction.

Lastly, in yellow, there seems the be the beginnings of a foundation for a fourth structure.

[Retired Downrange]

SN 8 nose cone being moved at this time

[Okie_Steve]

https://mobile.twitter.com/RGVaerialphotos/status/1346129510241079300/photo/1

That is a fairly impressive pile of dirt in the background, also visible from overhead in the previous post. I wonder if it is intended as fill for the new consumables area/tank farm that is planned on the other side of the orbital launch mount.

[spacenut]

Old gas wells are frequently used to store gas for future use.  Like store in summer for use in winter.  The wells already had gas in them until they ran out of gas due to low pressure at the well head.  SpaceX might use the old gas wells as storage of methane for future liquification.  Thousands of cubic feet (how gas is measured in the US), can be stored in these abandoned wells in gas form under pressure.  Then release the gas to be liquified for liquid methane for rocket us. 

Even natural gas can be bought cheaply on the spot market in bulk and stored in these wells.  Or, gas could be made synthetically and stored.  If good records were kept on these wells as the gas was extracted, they know home many cubic feet of gas they can store in them.  It avoids the construction of large pressurized or liquified above ground tankage.  Makes perfect sense, especially if a lot of rockets are going to be launched from Boca Chica. 

[edzieba]

It's an interesting idea for bulk storage, but it would almost certainly require reprocessing of the extracted gas before it can be used as propellant (regardless of how pure the methane you pump in is, it's going to pick up contaminants before you pump it back out) in addition to re-chilling and re-compressing back to a liquid, as well as road transport to the launch site tanks. That seems like a lot of work in order to have the fleet of tankers drive a short distance to your LCH4 reprocessing site rather than drive a slightly longer distance to existing LCH4 reprocessing and storage sites near Brownsville already owned and operated by someone else. Given that you'd need to purchase and transport LCH4 from those facilities to fill the gas reservoir in the first place, as well as needing an on-site tank farm to collect the re-extracted and post-filtered post-liquified gas again before it can be unloaded to tankers to move to the launch site, it seems like a lot of hassle to go to for little benefit.

[matt_ellis]

It's an interesting idea for bulk storage, but it would almost certainly require reprocessing of the extracted gas before it can be used as propellant (regardless of how pure the methane you pump in is, it's going to pick up contaminants before you pump it back out) in addition to re-chilling and re-compressing back to a liquid, as well as road transport to the launch site tanks. That seems like a lot of work in order to have the fleet of tankers drive a short distance to your LCH4 reprocessing site rather than drive a slightly longer distance to existing LCH4 reprocessing and storage sites near Brownsville already owned and operated by someone else. Given that you'd need to purchase and transport LCH4 from those facilities to fill the gas reservoir in the first place, as well as needing an on-site tank farm to collect the re-extracted and post-filtered post-liquified gas again before it can be unloaded to tankers to move to the launch site, it seems like a lot of hassle to go to for little benefit.

How many trucks would be required for a full orbital flight?  I would guess the answer is too many to truck in the propellant for frequent flights.  Therefore, the ability to use onsite storage and liquifying supplied by a pipeline (istr this has been mentioned before) may be required.