SpaceX files new federal govt lawsuit 17 May 2019

[FutureSpaceTourist]

SpaceX files lawsuit against the federal government — but asks to keep the details under wraps
BY ALAN BOYLE on May 17, 2019 at 5:36 pm

SpaceX today filed a lawsuit against the federal government, apparently protesting a contract bidding process — but asked the court to keep the proceedings under seal and covered by a protective order.

https://www.geekwire.com/2019/spacex-files-lawsuit-federal-government-asks-keep-details-wraps/

[Semmel]

Even though the details might be under wraps, do we at least know which bidding process they protest? Its not clear to me from the text.

[woods170]

Even though the details might be under wraps, do we at least know which bidding process they protest? Its not clear to me from the text.

That particular detail is one of the things being kept under wraps.

[Semmel]

Even though the details might be under wraps, do we at least know which bidding process they protest? Its not clear to me from the text.

That particular detail is one of the things being kept under wraps.

How does that work in practice? If a bidding process is so secret, that it is not public, how can you know that you can bid for something, even if you dont know what the conditions are? Is it 'invitation only' type of thing?

[Herb Schaltegger]

Even though the details might be under wraps, do we at least know which bidding process they protest? Its not clear to me from the text.

That particular detail is one of the things being kept under wraps.

How does that work in practice? If a bidding process is so secret, that it is not public, how can you know that you can bid for something, even if you dont know what the conditions are? Is it 'invitation only' type of thing?

This smacks of NatSec type stuff. Contracting officers with the appropriate levels of clearance are informed of the government request for RFPs and the bidding process, and they are informed whether their entity wins or is denied a contract.

That would explain why the suit is being filed under seal (which is EXCEEEDINGLY unusual in the United States court system).

[su27k]

Is there a time limit on filing a protest? i.e. how long after the award you can file a protest against it? If so, we could try to figure out which bidding this is by filtering by award time, there're not that many recent awards SpaceX can expect to win.

[gefere]

Even though the details might be under wraps, do we at least know which bidding process they protest? Its not clear to me from the text.

That particular detail is one of the things being kept under wraps.

How does that work in practice? If a bidding process is so secret, that it is not public, how can you know that you can bid for something, even if you dont know what the conditions are? Is it 'invitation only' type of thing?

This smacks of NatSec type stuff. Contracting officers with the appropriate levels of clearance are informed of the government request for RFPs and the bidding process, and they are informed whether their entity wins or is denied a contract.

That would explain why the suit is being filed under seal (which is EXCEEEDINGLY unusual in the United States court system).

I don't think that's what's going on. SpaceX's motion only mentions trade secrets and proprietary information. If there were national security secrets in play, and not just SpaceX's commercial secrets, you'd expect the motion to say so, because that would be extremely persuasive.

[Herb Schaltegger]

Even though the details might be under wraps, do we at least know which bidding process they protest? Its not clear to me from the text.

That particular detail is one of the things being kept under wraps.

How does that work in practice? If a bidding process is so secret, that it is not public, how can you know that you can bid for something, even if you dont know what the conditions are? Is it 'invitation only' type of thing?

This smacks of NatSec type stuff. Contracting officers with the appropriate levels of clearance are informed of the government request for RFPs and the bidding process, and they are informed whether their entity wins or is denied a contract.

That would explain why the suit is being filed under seal (which is EXCEEEDINGLY unusual in the United States court system).

I don't think that's what's going on. SpaceX's motion only mentions trade secrets and proprietary information. If there were national security secrets in play, and not just SpaceX's commercial secrets, you'd expect the motion to say so, because that would be extremely persuasive.

I have spent a great deal of my professional time in the last year working with trade secret/confidential business information determination and redaction in the context of legal disputes involving aerospace companies so I agree to a point. My main suggestion in brining up NatSec considerations is simply that no one has been able to determine what non-secret contracting effort SpaceX has lost that is worth filing suit against the federal government about.

[butters]

Perhaps the Air Force LSA awards, where SpaceX was left empty-handed reportedly because Falcon Heavy was deemed too mature and Starship not mature enough?

It seemed like SpaceX and NASA made peace over the Lucy contract with the awarding of the DART mission. If their complaint is with NASA, then it would have to be in response to the NextSTEP awards or some other aspect of the Artemis program. I hope this is not the case, because if it leaks out, SpaceX would be seen by some (including key figures in NASA HEOMD) as obstructing a White House priority, and for what? A political hail mary that can't pass the House?

The other possibility is that the complaint could be Starlink-related. That's something that would be worth fighting for if the government is giving them trouble, and SpaceX has more to fear in terms of trade secrets with Starlink given the competitive landscape.

[su27k]

It seemed like SpaceX and NASA made peace over the Lucy contract with the awarding of the DART mission.

Could be a continuation of Lucy protest, they retracted the first protest to GAO, then filed a second protest to GAO then immediately retracted the 2nd one. Maybe they realized GAO is not the best venue for the protest, so they changed it to Court of Federal Claims. Based on this article, it seems there're certain advantages when filing protest in Court of Federal Claims, namely it would force government to review more information during the discovery process.

[Ronsmytheiii]

Perhaps the Air Force LSA awards, where SpaceX was left empty-handed reportedly because Falcon Heavy was deemed too mature and Starship not mature enough?

Close, but I think this suit is related to how the next phase of the LSA has been developed (seemingly handicapping SpaceX proposals). Elon himself admitted they submitted a suboptimal proposal for last round, so that seemingly precludes a suit on that round as that is pretty damning on its own. SpaceX will probably argue that this round heavily favors ULA, and doesn’t offer a level playing ground for the other competitors, and I would agree with him.

[rcoppola]

Possibly something to do with previously awarded Delta IV H launches (3)  from 2018? There are a number valid reasons for them having been sole sourced, payload handling being a prime one. But maybe something was revealed recently they were previously unaware of that makes them think differently about those awards?

This article made me think of perhaps some link: Probably not but thought the timings were interesting.

https://spacenews.com/cost-of-delta-4-heavy-launches-is-down-but-the-real-price-is-a-secret/

[FutureSpaceTourist]

SpaceX files lawsuit against the federal government — but asks to keep the details under wraps
BY ALAN BOYLE on May 17, 2019 at 5:36 pm

SpaceX today filed a lawsuit against the federal government, apparently protesting a contract bidding process — but asked the court to keep the proceedings under seal and covered by a protective order.

https://www.geekwire.com/2019/spacex-files-lawsuit-federal-government-asks-keep-details-wraps/

Addition to original article:

Update for 2:40 p.m. PT May 20: There’s still no word about the subject of SpaceX’s bid protest, but according to an order issued today [attached], the case will be the subject of a teleconference set for Wednesday, involving court officials as well as attorneys for SpaceX and the Justice Department. Judge Griggsby’s order makes clear that SpaceX is filing a post-award bid protest.

[woods170]

SpaceX files lawsuit against the federal government — but asks to keep the details under wraps
BY ALAN BOYLE on May 17, 2019 at 5:36 pm

SpaceX today filed a lawsuit against the federal government, apparently protesting a contract bidding process — but asked the court to keep the proceedings under seal and covered by a protective order.

https://www.geekwire.com/2019/spacex-files-lawsuit-federal-government-asks-keep-details-wraps/

Addition to original article:

Update for 2:40 p.m. PT May 20: There’s still no word about the subject of SpaceX’s bid protest, but according to an order issued today [attached], the case will be the subject of a teleconference set for Wednesday, involving court officials as well as attorneys for SpaceX and the Justice Department. Judge Griggsby’s order makes clear that SpaceX is filing a post-award bid protest.

OK, that limits the possibilities a bit. Either NASA's Lucy mission, or the LSA.

Zuma-type missions would not make it into court at all given their highly sensitive and classified nature.

[Herb Schaltegger]

SpaceX files lawsuit against the federal government — but asks to keep the details under wraps
BY ALAN BOYLE on May 17, 2019 at 5:36 pm

SpaceX today filed a lawsuit against the federal government, apparently protesting a contract bidding process — but asked the court to keep the proceedings under seal and covered by a protective order.

https://www.geekwire.com/2019/spacex-files-lawsuit-federal-government-asks-keep-details-wraps/

Addition to original article:

Update for 2:40 p.m. PT May 20: There’s still no word about the subject of SpaceX’s bid protest, but according to an order issued today [attached], the case will be the subject of a teleconference set for Wednesday, involving court officials as well as attorneys for SpaceX and the Justice Department. Judge Griggsby’s order makes clear that SpaceX is filing a post-award bid protest.

OK, that limits the possibilities a bit. Either NASA's Lucy mission, or the LSA.

Zuma-type missions would not make it into court at all given their highly sensitive and classified nature.

As a general statement, that’s not true. The US Federal Courts have a system for dealing with disputes over “real” classified matters (think nuclear stuff, for example, as opposed to confidential business information). The US Court of Federal Claims is set up to do just that.

[speedevil]

Elon himself admitted they submitted a suboptimal proposal for last round, so that seemingly precludes a suit on that round as that is pretty damning on its own.

That might depend if it was required to be a suboptimal proposal.

[FutureSpaceTourist]

Issue apparently relates to USAF award:

https://twitter.com/joroulette/status/1131161926430535680

A judge granted interventions from Blue Origin and @ulalaunch last night in SpaceX's lawsuit against the Air Force. @blueorigin, like ULA, says "it is indisputable that Blue’s LSA award is involved in SpaceX’s bid protest" and has "direct and immediate interest in the litigation"

Edit to add: correction - motions filed, not yet granted

https://twitter.com/joroulette/status/1131174661071560704

(Correction, the court hasn't granted yet since motions were just filed)

[woods170]

Issue apparently relates to USAF award:

https://twitter.com/joroulette/status/1131161926430535680

A judge granted interventions from Blue Origin and @ulalaunch last night in SpaceX's lawsuit against the Air Force. @blueorigin, like ULA, says "it is indisputable that Blue’s LSA award is involved in SpaceX’s bid protest" and has "direct and immediate interest in the litigation"

Yes, that pretty much settles it. The lawsuit concerns the LSA award. It is spelled out loud and clear as LSA in the images from that tweet.

[Robotbeat]

Just a side note, but I kind of agree with Blue Origin about the questionability of deciding now who to award all (or a huge chunk) of the USAF flights starting in 2021.

And I think SpaceX is right to protest the LSA, which is basically giving Blue Origin a vertical integration capability and a huge leg up, even though they haven't launched didley squat to orbit and are years behind in qualifying the BE-4 for launch. It's also questionable to award LSA to two companies which are both effectively relying on the same first engine, an engine which has not yet been flight qualified and could further be delayed.

I think the USAF should at least consider awarding to 3 companies this time.

[Robotbeat]

It's ironic that of the 4 different rockets under question (Falcon 9/FHeavy, Vulcan, New Glenn, OmegA), only the Falcons are flight proven and the others are 2 years from flight and could easily have more delays. The idea that the USAF wouldn't throw SpaceX a bone for vertical integration but would spend tons of money paying for the development of these unproven rockets DOES seem to give SpaceX standing, here, IMHO...