Author Topic: NASA/ESA - Mars Sample Return mission  (Read 178040 times)

Offline whitelancer64

Re: NASA/ESA - Mars Sample Return mission
« Reply #20 on: 06/10/2019 09:00 pm »
We must take into consideration that the “value” of a sample is based on the scientific return of the sample weighed with the cost of the mission to your government to bring it back to Earth and get it in your hands.

In my earlier post, I gave an estimate of 10 billion {at least} for a NASA sample return mission. Whitelancer64 responded with a, seemingly low, $30,000 for a private third party sample. I had hoped to get few more replies regarding the monetary value of an actual sample.

So maybe the real value or “drive” for the mission is actually for a nation’s bragging rights? Look what we have done, and you can’t? And not so much of the scientific value of the sample itself, i.e. extinct or extant life.

This is interesting, my personal thoughts was that a nation, like the US, would gladly pay 1b for a sample from a third party. So, maybe I am completely wrong in my assumptions. Maybe it’s all about the prestige of the government funded mission after all.

To correct: $30,000 per ounce is about what martian meteorites cost right now. I would conservatively estimate that you could get 10x that amount, $300,000 per ounce, and possibly much more than that. I also assume you would have more than just one ounce, several one ounce samples, for sale. Perhaps even many pounds of them!

If there were only one, a pristine sample of one ounce could be worth tens or even hundreds of millions. The nice (or terrible) thing about "the open market" is anything can be valued at whatever someone is willing to pay for it. A small scrap of cardboard can go for $87,000 - if it is a super-rare Magic the Gathering card. And rare baseball cards can often get into the millions.
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Offline zubenelgenubi

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11002
  • Arc to Arcturus, then Spike to Spica
  • Sometimes it feels like Trantor in the time of Hari Seldon
  • Liked: 7293
  • Likes Given: 70076
Re: NASA/ESA - Mars Sample Return mission
« Reply #21 on: 07/03/2019 05:20 pm »
Brief mention in this July 2, 2019, SN article:  European Mars lander suffers parachute damage in test
Quote
NASA and ESA signed July 2 a “statement of intent” regarding the science benefits of a joint Mars sample return mission, although the agencies released few additional details about that statement. ESA plans to seek approval from its member states to pursue a role on a Mars sample return mission at its “Space19+” ministerial meeting in November.

A follow-on to the SOI of April 26, 2018?  Noted in this NSF article:
Mars Sample Return mission gains traction – SLS and Orion had an eye on involvement
« Last Edit: 07/03/2019 05:25 pm by zubenelgenubi »
Support your local planetarium! (COVID-panic and forward: Now more than ever.) My current avatar is saying "i wants to go uppies!" Yes, there are God-given rights. Do you wish to gainsay the Declaration of Independence?

Offline dchill

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 116
  • Liked: 39
  • Likes Given: 4
Re: NASA/ESA - Mars Sample Return mission
« Reply #22 on: 07/03/2019 08:55 pm »
As an obscure bit of MSR related history and a missed opportunity, the 2009 Mars Telecom Orbiter (MTO), which would have been scheduled to fly 10 years ago now, was planned to have had a secondary mission to "also demonstrate the ability to autonomously navigate, and to search for and rendezvous with an orbiting sample, in preparation for NASA’s proposed Mars Sample Return Mission"

Unfortunately MTO got cancelled in 2005.  LM was the only bidder.  The bid was compliant and within cost, and the contract was under negotiation, but MRO was too healthy to be replaced just yet and NASA got cold feet.  I was on that project as the Flight Software Lead.  Too bad we never got to build it.

Previous MTO/MSR post from 2015: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=37236.msg1355527#msg1355527
JPL MTO paper: https://trs.jpl.nasa.gov/bitstream/handle/2014/38801/04-3558.pdf?sequence=1
SpaceNews MTO cancellation story: https://spacenews.com/nasa-mars-telecom-orbiter-axed-space-agency-priorities-shift/


Obviously the MSR architecture now under consideration is different now, but it would have worked...

Offline zubenelgenubi

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11002
  • Arc to Arcturus, then Spike to Spica
  • Sometimes it feels like Trantor in the time of Hari Seldon
  • Liked: 7293
  • Likes Given: 70076
Re: NASA/ESA - Mars Sample Return mission
« Reply #23 on: 07/29/2019 12:32 pm »
Mars sample return mission plans begin to take shape, dated July 28
Quote
While neither NASA nor the European Space Agency has yet to give formal approval, or funding, for missions to return samples from Mars, both agencies are taking steps to refine plans for what those missions will be.
<snip>
That remains the overall plan, Jim Watzin, director of NASA’s Mars Exploration Program, said in a July 26 presentation at a meeting of the Mars Exploration Program Analysis Group (MEPAG) in Pasadena, California. “We want to pull this plan together and present it to the decision authorities for a decision by the end of the 2019 timeframe,” he said.

The plan as it currently exists, and as he presented at the MEPAG meeting, calls for two launches in 2026. The first, in the summer, would be the NASA lander, followed in the fall by the ESA orbiter. Both would take non-standard trajectories to get to Mars, with the orbiter getting there in about a year with the assistance of solar electric propulsion, while the lander would take two years to get to Mars.

While launch windows for Mars open for several weeks every 26 months, Watzin said not every opportunity is feasible for the pair of Mars sample return missions. “Propulsion demands are enormous,” he said. “There’s a couple opportunities where the energetics are manageable for a reasonable budget and reasonable technology. The rest of the opportunities require the invention of new things.”

If both missions launch in 2026, the lander will touch down near the Mars 2020 site in 2028 and send out a rover to collect samples. Most of those samples will be in tubes left behing on the ground by the Mars 2020 rover, but Watzin said there is the option for Mars 2020, if it is still functioning, to deliver some samples directly to the lander in the event something goes wrong with the fetch rover. “I think we’ve conquered one of the big worries, and we’ve put robustness into retrieval of the tubes,” he said.

The lander’s ascent vehicle will then place the sample container into orbit, where the orbiter collects it and places it into an Earth entry vehicle. The Mars orbiter then returns to Earth using electric propulsion, arriving in 2031. The entry vehicle will reenter and crash-land in a test range in Utah.

Question 1
Why "non-standard trajectories to Mars"?  Does this mean delta-VGA?

Question 2
Why crash-land at UTTR?  Why not an aerial capture?
Support your local planetarium! (COVID-panic and forward: Now more than ever.) My current avatar is saying "i wants to go uppies!" Yes, there are God-given rights. Do you wish to gainsay the Declaration of Independence?

Offline plutogno

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 892
  • Toulouse, France and Milan, Italy
  • Liked: 240
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: NASA/ESA - Mars Sample Return mission
« Reply #24 on: 07/29/2019 01:12 pm »

Question 2
Why crash-land at UTTR?  Why not an aerial capture?

this has been the baseline since at least the 90s. A crash land is safer than an aerial capture or parachute descent. Fewer things that can go wrong

Offline redliox

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2522
  • Illinois USA
  • Liked: 676
  • Likes Given: 96
Re: NASA/ESA - Mars Sample Return mission
« Reply #25 on: 07/30/2019 02:03 am »
Spacenews' article mentions that the lander's route would take 2 years.  Is there any advantage to this route?
"Let the trails lead where they may, I will follow."
-Tigatron

Offline Dalhousie

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2748
  • Liked: 753
  • Likes Given: 1116
Re: NASA/ESA - Mars Sample Return mission
« Reply #26 on: 07/31/2019 09:12 am »
Mars sample return mission plans begin to take shape, dated July 28
Quote
While neither NASA nor the European Space Agency has yet to give formal approval, or funding, for missions to return samples from Mars, both agencies are taking steps to refine plans for what those missions will be.
<snip>
That remains the overall plan, Jim Watzin, director of NASA’s Mars Exploration Program, said in a July 26 presentation at a meeting of the Mars Exploration Program Analysis Group (MEPAG) in Pasadena, California. “We want to pull this plan together and present it to the decision authorities for a decision by the end of the 2019 timeframe,” he said.

The plan as it currently exists, and as he presented at the MEPAG meeting, calls for two launches in 2026. The first, in the summer, would be the NASA lander, followed in the fall by the ESA orbiter. Both would take non-standard trajectories to get to Mars, with the orbiter getting there in about a year with the assistance of solar electric propulsion, while the lander would take two years to get to Mars.

While launch windows for Mars open for several weeks every 26 months, Watzin said not every opportunity is feasible for the pair of Mars sample return missions. “Propulsion demands are enormous,” he said. “There’s a couple opportunities where the energetics are manageable for a reasonable budget and reasonable technology. The rest of the opportunities require the invention of new things.”

If both missions launch in 2026, the lander will touch down near the Mars 2020 site in 2028 and send out a rover to collect samples. Most of those samples will be in tubes left behing on the ground by the Mars 2020 rover, but Watzin said there is the option for Mars 2020, if it is still functioning, to deliver some samples directly to the lander in the event something goes wrong with the fetch rover. “I think we’ve conquered one of the big worries, and we’ve put robustness into retrieval of the tubes,” he said.

The lander’s ascent vehicle will then place the sample container into orbit, where the orbiter collects it and places it into an Earth entry vehicle. The Mars orbiter then returns to Earth using electric propulsion, arriving in 2031. The entry vehicle will reenter and crash-land in a test range in Utah.

Question 1
Why "non-standard trajectories to Mars"?  Does this mean delta-VGA?

Question 2
Why crash-land at UTTR?  Why not an aerial capture?

why do it the hard way? The capsule will have to be proof against a hard landing anyway
Apologies in advance for any lack of civility - it's unintended

Offline Dalhousie

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2748
  • Liked: 753
  • Likes Given: 1116
Re: NASA/ESA - Mars Sample Return mission
« Reply #27 on: 07/31/2019 09:23 am »
Mars sample return mission plans begin to take shape, dated July 28
Quote
While neither NASA nor the European Space Agency has yet to give formal approval, or funding, for missions to return samples from Mars, both agencies are taking steps to refine plans for what those missions will be.
<snip>
That remains the overall plan, Jim Watzin, director of NASA’s Mars Exploration Program, said in a July 26 presentation at a meeting of the Mars Exploration Program Analysis Group (MEPAG) in Pasadena, California. “We want to pull this plan together and present it to the decision authorities for a decision by the end of the 2019 timeframe,” he said.

The plan as it currently exists, and as he presented at the MEPAG meeting, calls for two launches in 2026. The first, in the summer, would be the NASA lander, followed in the fall by the ESA orbiter. Both would take non-standard trajectories to get to Mars, with the orbiter getting there in about a year with the assistance of solar electric propulsion, while the lander would take two years to get to Mars.

While launch windows for Mars open for several weeks every 26 months, Watzin said not every opportunity is feasible for the pair of Mars sample return missions. “Propulsion demands are enormous,” he said. “There’s a couple opportunities where the energetics are manageable for a reasonable budget and reasonable technology. The rest of the opportunities require the invention of new things.”

If both missions launch in 2026, the lander will touch down near the Mars 2020 site in 2028 and send out a rover to collect samples. Most of those samples will be in tubes left behing on the ground by the Mars 2020 rover, but Watzin said there is the option for Mars 2020, if it is still functioning, to deliver some samples directly to the lander in the event something goes wrong with the fetch rover. “I think we’ve conquered one of the big worries, and we’ve put robustness into retrieval of the tubes,” he said.

The lander’s ascent vehicle will then place the sample container into orbit, where the orbiter collects it and places it into an Earth entry vehicle. The Mars orbiter then returns to Earth using electric propulsion, arriving in 2031. The entry vehicle will reenter and crash-land in a test range in Utah.

Question 1
Why "non-standard trajectories to Mars"?  Does this mean delta-VGA?


Solar electric propulsion, derived from Bepi Columbo http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Human_and_Robotic_Exploration/Exploration/Europe_prepares_for_Mars_courier?fbclid=IwAR23sy10Dk3CoTLdh6vQLAGnlZ0qHT1n1oVvDyY5uGYTuNUc8jPjSOe3bgM
Apologies in advance for any lack of civility - it's unintended


Offline zubenelgenubi

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11002
  • Arc to Arcturus, then Spike to Spica
  • Sometimes it feels like Trantor in the time of Hari Seldon
  • Liked: 7293
  • Likes Given: 70076
Re: NASA/ESA - Mars Sample Return mission
« Reply #29 on: 09/18/2019 10:51 pm »
From NASA, ESA officials seek formal approvals for Mars sample return mission, dated September 16:
Quote
Lori Glaze, director of NASA’s planetary science division, in a presentation Sept. 10 to the National Academies’ Committee on Astrobiology and Planetary Sciences:
NASA’s cost estimate for a Mars sample return mission is “still pretty rough at this point” and she said she was reticent to give a specific number.

“Keep in mind, we’re looking at a collaborative approach, which helps,” she said. “It’s in the kind of $2.5 to $3 billion (range). And that number is for the U.S. side, the launch of the lander, (it) does not include the fetch rover, that’s ESA-provided. On the Earth Return Orbiter, it’s ESA-provided, but it carries a U.S. payload capture system and re-entry system.”
<snip>
“Just a couple of months ago, at NASA, we conducted what’s called an acquisition strategy meeting, which is at the highest levels within NASA, where we discuss and get approval for the various partnerships, not only with the international partners, but also the division of labor and work within NASA,” Glaze said.

Officials said multiple NASA centers will have a role in the sample return effort, including the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, the Marshall Space Flight Center, the Ames Research Center, and the Langley Research Center. The U.S. contribution to the mission will likely launch from the Kennedy Space Center in Florida, and the Johnson Space Center in Houston is home to NASA’s sample curation lab.

“There would also be opportunities for commercial participation in various aspects, as well as additional international participation,” Glaze said.

“Hopefully, by the end of the calendar year, we’ll know what the congressional appropriation is for NASA, and whether or not that includes funding for Mars sample return,” Glaze said. “And also, in November, ESA has their ministerial meeting coming up, where they hopefully get the permission to move out and move forward with Mars sample return on their side.” [Nov. 27-28 in Seville, Spain]
<snip>
“The president will submit his budget request for fiscal year ’21, typically in the February timeframe, and that’s when we would hear whether or not the administration has made the decision to support sample return, and in what timeframe from a budgetary perspective,” [Jim Watzin, director of NASA’s Mars exploration program at NASA Headquarters] said.
<snip>
Assuming formal approvals in the coming months, NASA and ESA officials say the sample retrieval mission could depart Earth with a pair of launches in 2026. Mars launch opportunities come every 26 months, but not all interplanetary windows are favorable for the departure of a round-trip mission, Watzin said.

“When you look at the round-trip aspects of going to and from Mars, propulsion demands are enormous,” Watzin said in July. “The physics for launching and leaving a planet, both here on Earth and on Mars, cannot support an every 26-month opportunity like we’ve been used to. There are a couple of opportunities where the energetics are manageable with a reasonable budget and reasonable technology, and the rest of the opportunities require the invention of new things. And a limited cost and affordable approach means that the invention of new things had to be restricted on any approach that we took.

“So we have two opportunities that we’ve seriously looked at, and they span from ’26 to ’29 in various shapes and forms,” Watzin said.
<snip>
If the sample return missions launch in 2026, the Mars 2020 rover itself could still be operating when they arrive at the Red Planet. That could give scientists a backup option to transfer the samples into the Mars Ascent Vehicle, in case the fetch rover encounters problems.

“Having an early opportunity for sample return allows us to use Mars 2020 as a player in this,” Watzin said. “We have the operational option of holding tubes on Mars 2020 as a contingency against any snafu with the fetch rover, and we have the fetch rover picking up tubes that have been dropped as a contingency against Mars 2020.”

And, to answer an inevitable question:
Quote
“We knew that we would like do this sooner rather than later, so it didn’t seem sensible to go down a path where we had to develop, from the beginning, a brand new delivery system, when the delivery systems we’re familiar with and have been successful with are adequate to support the execution of the mission,” Watzin said. “If that (Starship) capability matures and shows up, I’m sure programmatically we will take full advantage of it, but it didn’t seem to make sense, since we don’t really know what it’s going to be, or when it’s going to be there, to make it the basis for the campaign.”
Support your local planetarium! (COVID-panic and forward: Now more than ever.) My current avatar is saying "i wants to go uppies!" Yes, there are God-given rights. Do you wish to gainsay the Declaration of Independence?

Offline Rondaz

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27059
  • Liked: 5301
  • Likes Given: 169
Re: NASA/ESA - Mars Sample Return mission
« Reply #30 on: 01/14/2020 01:33 pm »
Mars sample return is coming, so scientists urge preparing the public for it now

https://twitter.com/SPACEdotcom/status/1216738059028328448

Offline Khadgars

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1748
  • Orange County, California
  • Liked: 1131
  • Likes Given: 3149
Re: NASA/ESA - Mars Sample Return mission
« Reply #31 on: 01/14/2020 01:53 pm »
Definitely excited for this one.  My only gripe is, why is ESA tasked with doing the fetch rover?  They have never successfully landed any rover on Mars so just seems like quite the leap to put them in the critical path
Evil triumphs when good men do nothing - Thomas Jefferson

Online daedalus1

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 927
  • uk
  • Liked: 476
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: NASA/ESA - Mars Sample Return mission
« Reply #32 on: 01/14/2020 02:02 pm »
Definitely excited for this one.  My only gripe is, why is ESA tasked with doing the fetch rover?  They have never successfully landed any rover on Mars so just seems like quite the leap to put them in the critical path

They will attempt a landing later this year.

Offline Dalhousie

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2748
  • Liked: 753
  • Likes Given: 1116
Re: NASA/ESA - Mars Sample Return mission
« Reply #33 on: 01/14/2020 09:39 pm »
Definitely excited for this one.  My only gripe is, why is ESA tasked with doing the fetch rover?  They have never successfully landed any rover on Mars so just seems like quite the leap to put them in the critical path

The ESA rover will be carried on a US built lander
Apologies in advance for any lack of civility - it's unintended

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: NASA/ESA - Mars Sample Return mission
« Reply #34 on: 01/15/2020 12:53 am »
Mars sample return is coming, so scientists urge preparing the public for it now

https://twitter.com/SPACEdotcom/status/1216738059028328448
99% of public wouldn't care.

Online Phil Stooke

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1341
  • Canada
  • Liked: 1390
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: NASA/ESA - Mars Sample Return mission
« Reply #35 on: 01/15/2020 01:16 am »
1% will call it a cosmic plague come to kill us.

Offline ncb1397

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3497
  • Liked: 2310
  • Likes Given: 29
Re: NASA/ESA - Mars Sample Return mission
« Reply #36 on: 01/15/2020 01:32 am »
For example, some people will likely worry that the samples could harbor some sort of infectious microbe that could get loose and unleash a deadly plague on humanity. The sample-return team has thought about this remote possibility, of course, and is doing its best to ensure it could never come to pass.
https://www.space.com/mars-sample-return-public-engagement.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=dlvr.it

This made me laugh. So, if this happens, they get an A for effort? I think sending the sample to the gateway/down to the lunar surface first is the right approach and consistent with "doing its best" at planetary protection. First exposure to a human occupied environment shouldn't be on earth.
« Last Edit: 01/15/2020 01:33 am by ncb1397 »

Offline zubenelgenubi

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11002
  • Arc to Arcturus, then Spike to Spica
  • Sometimes it feels like Trantor in the time of Hari Seldon
  • Liked: 7293
  • Likes Given: 70076
Re: NASA/ESA - Mars Sample Return mission
« Reply #37 on: 01/15/2020 08:08 pm »
Following on to Blackstar's (now deleted) reply:
IIRC, space station Freedom was hypothesized as a first stop for returning Martian samples (robotically retrieved and/or brought home by astronauts).  Also IIRC, the extra difficulties that Blackstar mentioned was discussed then as a reason NOT to do so.

(These are 30 to 35 y.o. recollections, probably from an article or discussion in a space exploration-themed magazine--possibly from c. 1989/announcement of SEI?)
« Last Edit: 03/03/2020 01:51 am by zubenelgenubi »
Support your local planetarium! (COVID-panic and forward: Now more than ever.) My current avatar is saying "i wants to go uppies!" Yes, there are God-given rights. Do you wish to gainsay the Declaration of Independence?

Offline ncb1397

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3497
  • Liked: 2310
  • Likes Given: 29
Re: NASA/ESA - Mars Sample Return mission
« Reply #38 on: 01/15/2020 09:00 pm »
This made me laugh. So, if this happens, they get an A for effort? I think sending the sample to the gateway/down to the lunar surface first is the right approach and consistent with "doing its best" at planetary protection. First exposure to a human occupied environment shouldn't be on earth.

There has been at least one study (in the 1990s) of doing planetary sample containment and analysis in orbit, at a dedicated space station. But the overwhelming consensus is that doing this would be far more risky than a terrestrial containment facility. The reason is that we know how to do sample containment on Earth, since we do it all the time. We don't know how to do it in a zero-g environment. The most obvious issue is how surfaces get contaminated. On Earth, if you spill something, it falls down. Dust settles down. Particles settle down. So the bottom surface is the one most likely to get contaminated, and you focus most on that surface. In space, that's not true. Spill something and it is airborne and floats and it does not settle. It requires a whole new approach, and all new procedures and equipment. That introduces risk.

So, the lunar surface then. Anyways, you have to consider the affect of the risk not just the likelihood. Even if an in space containment facility is 1000x more likely to lose containment, the consequences of losing containment in a terrestrial facility has a pretty good chance of being >1000x worse.

As far as the experts. There is a long history of scientists playing with stuff that they shouldn't and in an unsafe manner. Sometimes, being an expert makes you over-confident in your science and your own skills and add in their innate curiosity overcoming any sense of risk.

Quote
On May 21, 1946,[11] physicist Louis Slotin and seven other Los Alamos personnel were in a Los Alamos laboratory conducting another experiment to verify the closeness of the core to criticality by the positioning of neutron reflectors. Slotin, who was leaving Los Alamos, was showing the technique to Alvin C. Graves, who would use it in a final test before the Operation Crossroads nuclear tests scheduled a month later at Bikini Atoll. It required the operator to place two half-spheres of beryllium (a neutron reflector) around the core to be tested and manually lower the top reflector over the core using a thumb hole on the top. As the reflectors were manually moved closer and farther away from each other, scintillation counters measured the relative activity from the core. The experimenter needed to maintain a slight separation between the reflector halves in order to stay below criticality. The standard protocol was to use shims between the halves, as allowing them to close completely could result in the instantaneous formation of a critical mass and a lethal power excursion. Under Slotin's own unapproved protocol, the shims were not used and the only thing preventing the closure was the blade of a standard straight screwdriver manipulated in Slotin's other hand. Slotin, who was given to bravado, became the local expert, performing the test on almost a dozen occasions, often in his trademark blue jeans and cowboy boots, in front of a roomful of observers. Enrico Fermi reportedly told Slotin and others they would be "dead within a year" if they continued performing the test in that manner.[12] Scientists referred to this flirting with the possibility of a nuclear chain reaction as "tickling the dragon's tail", based on a remark by physicist Richard Feynman, who compared the experiments to "tickling the tail of a sleeping dragon".[13][14]

On the day of the accident, Slotin's screwdriver slipped outward a fraction of an inch while he was lowering the top reflector, allowing the reflector to fall into place around the core. Instantly there was a flash of blue light and a wave of heat across Slotin's skin; the core had become supercritical, releasing an intense burst of neutron radiation estimated to have lasted about a half second.[6] Slotin quickly twisted his wrist, flipping the top shell to the floor. The heating of the core and shells stopped the criticality within seconds of its initiation,[15] while Slotin's reaction prevented a recurrence and ended the accident. The position of Slotin's body over the apparatus also shielded the others from much of the neutron radiation, but he received a lethal dose of 1,000 rad (10 Gy) neutron and 114 rad (1.14 Gy) gamma radiation in under a second and died nine days later from acute radiation poisoning. The nearest person to Slotin, Graves, who was watching over Slotin's shoulder and was thus partially shielded by him, received a high but non-lethal radiation dose. Graves was hospitalized for several weeks with severe radiation poisoning and developed chronic neurological and vision problems as a result of the exposure.[8] He died 20 years later, at age 55, of a heart attack. It may have been caused by hidden complications from radiation exposure, but could also have been genetic in nature, as his father had died from the same cause.[16][17][18]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_core

edit: On the other hand, past explorers simply didn't worry about...

Quote
It was at this event where firsthand accounts were recorded in the Florentine Codex concerning the adverse effects of the smallpox epidemic of the Aztecs, which stated, "many died from this plague, and many others died of hunger. They could not get up and search for food, and everyone else was too sick to care for them, so they starved to death in their beds. By the time the danger was recognized, the plague was well established that nothing could halt it".[26] The smallpox epidemic caused not only infection to the Mexica peoples, but it weakened able bodied people who could no longer grow and harvest their crops, which in turn led to mass famine and death from malnutrition.[26] While the population of Tenochtitlan was recovering, the disease continued to Chalco, a city on the southeast corner of Lake Texcoco that was formerly controlled by the Aztecs but now occupied by the Spanish.[11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Tenochtitlan

So, this may just be how this stuff goes.
« Last Edit: 01/15/2020 10:58 pm by ncb1397 »

Offline ccdengr

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 650
  • Liked: 482
  • Likes Given: 72
Re: NASA/ESA - Mars Sample Return mission
« Reply #39 on: 01/15/2020 09:32 pm »
There has been at least one study (in the 1990s) of doing planetary sample containment and analysis in orbit, at a dedicated space station.
"The Antaeus project: An orbital quarantine facility for analysis of planetary return samples",
Advances in Space Research, Volume 3, Issue 8, p. 23-26, 1983.  https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0273117783901680

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
1