Mental Health of isolated outpost residents

[Valerij Zhilisky]

Well, knowing that the air you are breathing is of the purest quality should contribute positively to mental health.  Works for me.

   
Not just the air, but also the water. We drink carbonated water quite often. The water coming out of the Sabatier reactor would be quite drinkable. And if you boil it at normal pressure, it's just plain water. And to improve its taste in the water will have to add a small amount of salts and trace elements.
   
And for the peace of mind of the inhabitants of the Martian Colony, and for the participants of this discussion it will be useful to realize that the production of fuel on Mars simultaneously provides the Martian Colony with a huge amount of oxygen, nitrogen and clean water for life support systems. For example, this allows algae and fish to be grown for dietary diversity.
   
In turn, this will improve the mood and benefit the mental health of the colony's inhabitants. In addition, large backlit aquariums can act as windows or softboxes for public spaces, and observing their inhabitants will be much more interesting than the unchanging desert outside.
   

[Robotbeat]

The solution is to send larger crews.

[Eric Hedman]

The solution is to send larger crews.

Six or seven people at a bare minimum would make sense to me on a Mars mission.

[JulesVerneATV]

The Importance of Public Health in Antarctica ~ Melinda Chen
https://blog.cord.edu/newvoices/2024/04/05/the-importance-of-public-health-in-antarctica-melinda-chen/

[Twark_Main]

If you prefer, replace the word "precious" with "costly."

As deadman points out, one of the costlier elements is the part where you clean and purify the raw gas into human-rated breathing gas. This will probably exclude dirtier material streams, like mineral processing.

     
In fact, near-ready medical grade oxygen will be produced in huge quantities in the production of methane, rocket fuel. In the Sabatier reaction, one of the products is pure water, the oxygen obtained during its electrolysis will only need to be dried, for example, to freeze out water vapor. Nitrogen at the exit from the cryogenic separator of the Martian atmosphere will also be quite pure.
   

"Near-ready" and "ready" are not the same thing.

The purity of the end products is a function of the purity of input products.

Those input products (Martian water and Martian CO2) are only going to be purified enough to balance extending the lifetime of the ISRU equipment with the cost and complexity of the purification process itself.

So no, I doubt the oxygen coming out the the ISRU generator will automatically be "medical grade."

   
In principle you are right, but in this particular case you are wrong.
     
In the Sabatier reaction we use hydrogen obtained from Martian water and the compressed Martian atmosphere (almost pure carbon dioxide) to produce methane. We are not interested in the problem of methane extraction in this particular case, we are interested in the by-product of the reaction - liquid water, which is easily separated from the mixture of gases. A small amount of dissolved carbon dioxide remains in the water.
   
In the next step, this almost chemically pure water is electrolyzed and separated into oxygen gas and hydrogen. The hydrogen is returned to the Sabatier reactor, the oxygen is liquefied. When the oxygen is liquefied, it cools and the impurities of water vapor and carbon dioxide in it are separated, so the output is pure liquid oxygen of medical quality, which can be used to replenish the atmosphere of the living modules.
   
Thus, if we do not mix water from the Sabatier reactor with water extracted on Mars, and use a separate process line to process water from the reactor, we get a large amount of pure medical-grade liquid oxygen.
   

Your leap from "almost" to "pure medical-grade" is the problem, of course.

I can have "almost" pure air, but if it's 99.9% air and 0.1% carbon monoxide you're going to have a bad time...   

They will defiinitely 100% be scrubbing, purifying, and testing the air before introducing it inside the habitat. To do otherwise would be an easily avoidable error (malfeasance? negligence?) on the same level as the Titan implosion. "Don't do nuthin' dumb."

[deadman1204]

If you prefer, replace the word "precious" with "costly."

As deadman points out, one of the costlier elements is the part where you clean and purify the raw gas into human-rated breathing gas. This will probably exclude dirtier material streams, like mineral processing.

     
In fact, near-ready medical grade oxygen will be produced in huge quantities in the production of methane, rocket fuel. In the Sabatier reaction, one of the products is pure water, the oxygen obtained during its electrolysis will only need to be dried, for example, to freeze out water vapor. Nitrogen at the exit from the cryogenic separator of the Martian atmosphere will also be quite pure.
   

"Near-ready" and "ready" are not the same thing.

The purity of the end products is a function of the purity of input products.

Those input products (Martian water and Martian CO2) are only going to be purified enough to balance extending the lifetime of the ISRU equipment with the cost and complexity of the purification process itself.

So no, I doubt the oxygen coming out the the ISRU generator will automatically be "medical grade."

   
In principle you are right, but in this particular case you are wrong.
     
In the Sabatier reaction we use hydrogen obtained from Martian water and the compressed Martian atmosphere (almost pure carbon dioxide) to produce methane. We are not interested in the problem of methane extraction in this particular case, we are interested in the by-product of the reaction - liquid water, which is easily separated from the mixture of gases. A small amount of dissolved carbon dioxide remains in the water.
   
In the next step, this almost chemically pure water is electrolyzed and separated into oxygen gas and hydrogen. The hydrogen is returned to the Sabatier reactor, the oxygen is liquefied. When the oxygen is liquefied, it cools and the impurities of water vapor and carbon dioxide in it are separated, so the output is pure liquid oxygen of medical quality, which can be used to replenish the atmosphere of the living modules.
   
Thus, if we do not mix water from the Sabatier reactor with water extracted on Mars, and use a separate process line to process water from the reactor, we get a large amount of pure medical-grade liquid oxygen.
   

Your leap from "almost" to "pure medical-grade" is the problem, of course.

I can have "almost" pure air, but if it's 99.9% air and 0.1% carbon monoxide you're going to have a bad time...   

They will defiinitely 100% be scrubbing, purifying, and testing the air before introducing it inside the habitat. To do otherwise would be an easily avoidable error (malfeasance? negligence?) on the same level as the Titan implosion. "Don't do nuthin' dumb."

Unfortunately you are very correct on this. IF the procedure produces 0.1% CO, thats super bad for anyone involved. Unless its 99.9999999% perfect, everyone will suffocate and die from CO poisoning.

[Paul451]

IF the procedure produces 0.1% CO, thats super bad for anyone involved. Unless its 99.9999999% perfect, everyone will suffocate and die from CO poisoning.

Unless you are being sarcastic, more like 99.98%. Possible death occurs at levels of 150-200ppm. 9-10ppm is the maximum recommended long term exposure, so 99.999% is your guide level.

[Robotbeat]

I think people don't realize just how much carbon monoxide is made by, like, candles and a normal wood fire which folks breath the fumes of. Carbon monoxide isn't great for you, and it's a real health problem with indoor stoves, but it's also not like a parts-per-billion-will-kill-you thing.

[deadman1204]

I think people don't realize just how much carbon monoxide is made by, like, candles and a normal wood fire which folks breath the fumes of. Carbon monoxide isn't great for you, and it's a real health problem with indoor stoves, but it's also not like a parts-per-billion-will-kill-you thing.

Incomplete combustion isn't a big deal on earth, because you have an entire planet of air to exchange with. On mars have don't. You only have the air in the can, and if the o2 machine is making CO, the only place for it to go is your lungs.

[Dalhousie]

I think people don't realize just how much carbon monoxide is made by, like, candles and a normal wood fire which folks breath the fumes of. Carbon monoxide isn't great for you, and it's a real health problem with indoor stoves, but it's also not like a parts-per-billion-will-kill-you thing.

Incomplete combustion isn't a big deal on earth, because you have an entire planet of air to exchange with. On mars have don't. You only have the air in the can, and if the o2 machine is making CO, the only place for it to go is your lungs.

There are such things as CO filters and alarms

[Twark_Main]

I think people don't realize just how much carbon monoxide is made by, like, candles and a normal wood fire which folks breath the fumes of. Carbon monoxide isn't great for you, and it's a real health problem with indoor stoves, but it's also not like a parts-per-billion-will-kill-you thing.

Incomplete combustion isn't a big deal on earth, because you have an entire planet of air to exchange with. On mars have don't. You only have the air in the can, and if the o2 machine is making CO, the only place for it to go is your lungs.

There are such things as CO filters and alarms

Yes.  My original point is precisely that you do need such controls, filters, and sensors in order to make "medical grade" oxygen for the internal atmosphere.


Anyway, back to the topic of Mental Health of isolated outpost residents...



Does anyone have a citation for the British Arctic (Antarctic?) base that O'Neill mentions?

[Eric Hedman]

I think people don't realize just how much carbon monoxide is made by, like, candles and a normal wood fire which folks breath the fumes of. Carbon monoxide isn't great for you, and it's a real health problem with indoor stoves, but it's also not like a parts-per-billion-will-kill-you thing.

Incomplete combustion isn't a big deal on earth, because you have an entire planet of air to exchange with. On mars have don't. You only have the air in the can, and if the o2 machine is making CO, the only place for it to go is your lungs.

There are such things as CO filters and alarms

Yes.  My original point is precisely that you do need such controls, filters, and sensors in order to make "medical grade" oxygen for the internal atmosphere.


Anyway, back to the topic of Mental Health of isolated outpost residents...



Does anyone have a citation for the British Arctic (Antarctic?) base that O'Neill mentions?

He may have been referring to the British Halley research station which has been on the Brunt ice shelf of Antarctica since 1956.

https://www.bas.ac.uk/polar-operations/sites-and-facilities/facility/halley/

[Slarty1080]

If you prefer, replace the word "precious" with "costly."

As deadman points out, one of the costlier elements is the part where you clean and purify the raw gas into human-rated breathing gas. This will probably exclude dirtier material streams, like mineral processing.

     
In fact, near-ready medical grade oxygen will be produced in huge quantities in the production of methane, rocket fuel. In the Sabatier reaction, one of the products is pure water, the oxygen obtained during its electrolysis will only need to be dried, for example, to freeze out water vapor. Nitrogen at the exit from the cryogenic separator of the Martian atmosphere will also be quite pure.
   

"Near-ready" and "ready" are not the same thing.

The purity of the end products is a function of the purity of input products.

Those input products (Martian water and Martian CO2) are only going to be purified enough to balance extending the lifetime of the ISRU equipment with the cost and complexity of the purification process itself.

So no, I doubt the oxygen coming out the the ISRU generator will automatically be "medical grade."

   
In principle you are right, but in this particular case you are wrong.
     
In the Sabatier reaction we use hydrogen obtained from Martian water and the compressed Martian atmosphere (almost pure carbon dioxide) to produce methane. We are not interested in the problem of methane extraction in this particular case, we are interested in the by-product of the reaction - liquid water, which is easily separated from the mixture of gases. A small amount of dissolved carbon dioxide remains in the water.
   
In the next step, this almost chemically pure water is electrolyzed and separated into oxygen gas and hydrogen. The hydrogen is returned to the Sabatier reactor, the oxygen is liquefied. When the oxygen is liquefied, it cools and the impurities of water vapor and carbon dioxide in it are separated, so the output is pure liquid oxygen of medical quality, which can be used to replenish the atmosphere of the living modules.
   
Thus, if we do not mix water from the Sabatier reactor with water extracted on Mars, and use a separate process line to process water from the reactor, we get a large amount of pure medical-grade liquid oxygen.
   

Your leap from "almost" to "pure medical-grade" is the problem, of course.

I can have "almost" pure air, but if it's 99.9% air and 0.1% carbon monoxide you're going to have a bad time...   

They will defiinitely 100% be scrubbing, purifying, and testing the air before introducing it inside the habitat. To do otherwise would be an easily avoidable error (malfeasance? negligence?) on the same level as the Titan implosion. "Don't do nuthin' dumb."

They will design the process so that carbon monoxide is sufficiently excluded (<0.001%). They will also have alarms if the level becomes raised in the habitat or in the oxygen inlet and no doubt elsewhere in the processing. Carbon monoxide, along with many other impurities will be constantly monitored. https://www.esa.int/esapub/bulletin/bullet89/tann89.htm

[JulesVerneATV]

'winter-over milestones'

https://www.antarcticajournal.com/long-dark-winter-at-the-south-pole/

[sdsds]

The crew size needs to be large enough to include at least two professional counselors. Half-Betazoid if possible.

"Deanna Troi, your ship's counselor, half Betazoid, loves chocolate. The arrival of her mother makes you shudder." – Beverly Crusher, (ST:TNG)

Seriously, the general solution is "more people."

[Norm38]

I think this is relevant for this topic.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/mar/19/psychologists-in-touch-with-antarctic-base-sanae-iv-after-assault-allegation-south-africa-confirms