Mental Health of isolated outpost residents

[freddo411]

I suspect that for a long time the speed of light (optical or radio) bandwidth to Mars will be limited, and most data will be transferred on starships.  Only a limited amount of new, first run content will be available on Mars, for most content the wait will be months or years.  There may be serious disagreements whether to prioritize Bridgerton:Season 25, Die Hardest XV 3D, or Call of Duty:Bug Wars.

No. There will be a large data pipe

[JohnFornaro]

Boomers stay out at sea for months at a time without surfacing.

I've only stayed out at sea for a few days at a time.

[Barley]

I suspect that for a long time the speed of light (optical or radio) bandwidth to Mars will be limited, and most data will be transferred on starships.  Only a limited amount of new, first run content will be available on Mars, for most content the wait will be months or years.  There may be serious disagreements whether to prioritize Bridgerton:Season 25, Die Hardest XV 3D, or Call of Duty:Bug Wars.

No. There will be a large data pipe

You're underestimating the yottabytes needed to download Die Hardest XV 3D, and the bandwidth of a Starship loaded with next-gen thumbdrives.

However big the pipe to Mars it will be tiny compared to the pipes between Hollywood and, say, Paris.  Bloatware will be trimmed so it can be stuffed through the much larger terrestrial pipes but that won't be enough to get it to Mars. 
640k was not enough for everybody.

https://what-if.xkcd.com/31/

[kevinof]

Golden globe race (yachts) has just finished - single handed non stop on very old and slow boats. The last finisher took 277 days.

On their own, none or little outside comms which is very tough - Should be easier with a group.

Boomers stay out at sea for months at a time without surfacing.

I've only stayed out at sea for a few days at a time.

[Hog]

Boomers stay out at sea for months at a time without surfacing.

I've only stayed out at sea for a few days at a time.

Same for me, as a Gen X'er.

[Nomadd]

 I spent 5 months in the Cascades last year with very little human contact, and I felt as normal as I ever did.  (Shut up Johnny)
 They use to call people like that loners, until the Psych Police determined that everyone not fitting in their declared range of normal behavior suffered from disorders.
 You're going to lose a whole lot of the really exceptional people who can pull off jobs like this if you insist they fit some "expert's" safe profile.

[deltaV]

I spent 5 months in the Cascades last year with very little human contact, and I felt as normal as I ever did.  (Shut up Johnny)
 They use to call people like that loners, until the Psych Police determined that everyone not fitting in their declared range of normal behavior suffered from disorders.
 You're going to lose a whole lot of the really exceptional people who can pull off jobs like this if you insist they fit some "expert's" safe profile.

Someone with a mental health issue that makes them socially isolated even on Earth who has a history of doing great work despite that could even be preferable to a normal person who would be confronting social isolation for the first time during a Mars mission and might react badly to it.

[Redclaws]

I spent 5 months in the Cascades last year with very little human contact, and I felt as normal as I ever did.  (Shut up Johnny)
 They use to call people like that loners, until the Psych Police determined that everyone not fitting in their declared range of normal behavior suffered from disorders.
 You're going to lose a whole lot of the really exceptional people who can pull off jobs like this if you insist they fit some "expert's" safe profile.

Then what standard should we have?  None?  Just the secret personal opinion of some modern equivalent of Deke Slayton?  “It’s hard to draw up a good standard and it may not fit certain common criteria” doesn’t seem like it means we should give up on having *something*

[Robotbeat]

Make it so that folks who want to go can. The main standard is therefore desire to go. Not everything needs to be hall-monitored and gatekept.

[Coastal Ron]

The OP related to an outpost on Mars, though an isolated outpost anywhere is probably relevant. And I think we have plenty of current examples of job types that require being isolated for a period time, and certainly 50-100 years ago there were far more examples of jobs that required forced isolation.

At least today we would likely have communication with the outpost, even though it would not be real time. And there should be others at the outpost too, so it's not like we're talking about individuals that are stuck on Mars by themselves like in the book/movie The Martian.

Not sure we'll ever be able to validate 100% that someone won't develop significant negative effects from being so isolated, which is why we should always be trying to have such outposts to have as significant a population as possible.

[MickQ]

We just want people who aren’t going to walk out an airlock and leave the door open.

[Coastal Ron]

We just want people who aren’t going to walk out an airlock and leave the door open.

Well that should be made impossible regardless the mental state of anyone.

And maybe what that really points to is that we need to build durable facilities in space and on other planetary bodies that can resist purposeful acts of mayhem to some degree. Make them hardened and redundant. Because we'll never be able to screen 100% today for a condition that may not show up until tomorrow.

[Dalhousie]

Keep in mind that there have been permanent stations in the Antarctic for 120 years, tens of thousands of people have wintered over.  Reported serious crimes have been rare, a couple of fights at Russian stations, one at a US station, a possible murder at a US station, and arson at an Argentine one.  It's possible, even likely that some crimes have been unpublished, even so it does not appear to be a major issue. 

A bigger concern is the widespread sexual harassment that has been reported.  This is a cultural reflection, especially of the sort of people selected to go.  This should be greatly reduced by screening out ahead of time.

[MickQ]

Keep in mind, also, that leaving a door open in Antarctica is not an immediate life threatening situation.

Antarctic stations tend to be much bigger than any Mars settlement will be for quite some time.  Living permanently in confined spaces will have to wear heavily on the psyche of people used to the open air, no matter how well trained. 

[Slarty1080]

Some people can cope well with solitude. But being confined with half a dozen others may present a whole range of different issues in terms of how well each individual gets on with each other individual. Probably a good idea to ensure that people get a good mix of personal/private time as well as communal/public time. There should be enough room on Starship to provide a good mix of both and that will be important. Any output facilities would hopefully only provide even more room. Interpersonal social skills might be pushed to breaking point if everyone was cooped up in an Orion style capsule for 6 months or more.

[JohnFornaro]

We just want people who aren’t going to walk out an airlock and leave the door open.

It's easy to imagine an airlock failsafe mechanism.

[Slarty1080]

We just want people who aren’t going to walk out an airlock and leave the door open.

It's easy to imagine an airlock failsafe mechanism.

Yes and that's a good idea although it would require some careful thought*. Death would come on swift wings to anyone who had the inclination. cutting a suit outside should do it or just wandering off. Anyone who went mad with a grudge could probably kill everyone in a small base with a few simple tools like a drill or even a hammer, saw or chisel. *A hole in the wrong place might mean that nobody could get out of an airlock with a failsafe mechanism.

[Paul451]

We just want people who aren’t going to walk out an airlock and leave the door open.

If it's physically possible, you have a bad airlock.

Airlocks should open inwards towards pressurised areas. That makes the hatches impossible to open without going through the appropriate sequential depress cycle. In which case, the nutter is just dead in the airlock with the outer hatch still closed. Explosive decompression should be impossible by physics, not fail safes.

[Barring actual explosives. But that's another issue.]

[spacenut]

Or at least having 2 people to open and close air locks. 

[MickQ]

Ok.  My bad 😞.

I was alluding to the fact that some mentally unstable person may deliberately try to vent the habitat.  I just didn’t think it necessary to spell it out.