Author Topic: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)  (Read 276580 times)

Offline AncientU

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #40 on: 06/09/2018 04:54 pm »
This is a world-class, architecturally distinctive facility with adjacent 200 parking spaces.  (A low, square block house is not.)

So would you mind pointing out the locations in the picture of all the stuff you didn't highlight in the description (which is most of it)?  Is the rest of the facility subterranean?  (Does that thing even have room for a stairwell next to the elevator?)

I described the only 'world-class, architecturally distinctive' structure in the entire document.  Another SpaceX big box is not distinctive or world-class, nor are the side buildings/shops.  The 92m Launch and Landing Control Center is the news... why does that not make sense?  Why wouldn't it serve the purposes of L&L control plus waving the SpaceX flag?  They are going to be the dominant tenant at the Cape... they plan to launch 3/4ths of the big rockets that the Cape will see -- vastly more than the Cape has ever launched.  The tower will give great views of their two (likely becoming three) launch pads and their landing areas.

Also, stairwell...?  The tower is probably 6-8m square -- plenty room for a couple elevators and a stairwell.  With only 200 parking spaces, there will likely be no more than about 200 people in the tower at any time, so emergency egress should be trivial.
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Online woods170

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #41 on: 06/09/2018 07:53 pm »
I like the idea of SpaceX having its own centralized facility, but I cannot for the life of me understand why the company would want to force its control team to climb (ride elevators, of course) to the top of a 300-ish foot tower to do their jobs.  That is beyond unnecessary.  It creates safety issues that don't need to be created, etc., and it costs money that doesn't need to be spent.

 - Ed Kyle

I've lectured people on this before, and I will now lecture you on it.

You are not thinking "Elon". SpaceX really is all about Elon Musk. It is his company. If he wants this done - no matter how unnecessary it is considered to be by others - it will be done.

That's how the USA regained its leading share in commercial launches: because Elon had a crazy idea and saw it all the way through to the huge success it is now.

That's how spaceflight is changing: because Elon had this crazy idea of returning boosters to reuse them and saw it all the way through to the success it has become.

Offline CuddlyRocket

I like the idea of SpaceX having its own centralized facility, but I cannot for the life of me understand why the company would want to force its control team to climb (ride elevators, of course) to the top of a 300-ish foot tower to do their jobs.  That is beyond unnecessary.  It creates safety issues that don't need to be created, etc., and it costs money that doesn't need to be spent.

You are not thinking "Elon". SpaceX really is all about Elon Musk. It is his company. If he wants this done - no matter how unnecessary it is considered to be by others - it will be done.

Although Elon is known for the occasional whimsy, it doesn't usually involve the expenditure of significant amounts of money. So, either it's not actually that much more expensive or it combines functions not readily apparent. And these could be future functions - he's well known for thinking a few steps ahead. There'll be a reason for it; and just because we can't think of a reason doesn't mean there isn't one! (And the reason might not be an engineering one; maybe it's PR, marketing and/or political?)

Offline ThereIWas3

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #43 on: 06/09/2018 09:45 pm »
I don't recall any reason that launch control rooms have ever needed to actually see the rocket.  They have a much better picture of what is going on by all the status displays on their desks.  And I remember the launch control room for Apollo had all the controller desks facing away from the windows!  So why bother putting it up on a tower?

I think it is for VIP and press viewing of launch and landing ops.

Offline mme

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #44 on: 06/09/2018 11:07 pm »
I hope the viewing area includes at least the option of outside viewing on one of the decks.  I'm sure it would still be plenty loud inside but for me launch is all about feeling the roar.
Space is not Highlander.  There can, and will, be more than one.

Offline Comga

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #45 on: 06/10/2018 12:12 am »
Am I mistaken or does the detailed map in the EA show two long areas astride a road behind the buildings with each labeled “BOOSTER”? Not “rockets” Not “Rocket” and “Garden”.
That seems insufficient for a SpaceX Rocket Garden as mentioned.
Would this just be more details being lost in “translation “?
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline Jim

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #46 on: 06/10/2018 01:00 am »
This is a world-class, architecturally distinctive facility with adjacent 200 parking spaces.  (A low, square block house is not.)

So would you mind pointing out the locations in the picture of all the stuff you didn't highlight in the description (which is most of it)?  Is the rest of the facility subterranean?  (Does that thing even have room for a stairwell next to the elevator?)

I described the only 'world-class, architecturally distinctive' structure in the entire document.  Another SpaceX big box is not distinctive or world-class, nor are the side buildings/shops.  The 92m Launch and Landing Control Center is the news... why does that not make sense?  Why wouldn't it serve the purposes of L&L control plus waving the SpaceX flag?  They are going to be the dominant tenant at the Cape... they plan to launch 3/4ths of the big rockets that the Cape will see -- vastly more than the Cape has ever launched.  The tower will give great views of their two (likely becoming three) launch pads and their landing areas.

Also, stairwell...?  The tower is probably 6-8m square -- plenty room for a couple elevators and a stairwell.  With only 200 parking spaces, there will likely be no more than about 200 people in the tower at any time, so emergency egress should be trivial.

Wrong, they are only 1/4 of the large rockets

Offline noogie

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #47 on: 06/10/2018 01:32 am »
I think impressing their customers is part of it. The Bangabandhu-1 launch had a huge official delegation of ministers and VIPs from Bangladesh.

https://www.dhakatribune.com/bangladesh/2018/05/07/bangabandhu-satellite-1-set-launched-may-10/
Quote
A 30-member delegation led by State Minister for Information Tarana Halim will leave for Florida on Monday to attend the launching program, he said.

I suspect hosting such a delegation at the Cape wasn't easy for them and that they would want more facilities if they had customers with similar needs in the future

Also, it would make sense they they start extending their PR operations - it seems incongruous how little PR presence they have at their launch site when they have such a slick online PR operation (personally I thought that it would end up with SpaceX, Blue Origin and maybe others eventually having their own concessions in the KSC visitors center but having their own facilities also makes sense from a PR perspective).
« Last Edit: 06/10/2018 01:39 am by noogie »

Offline jpo234

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #48 on: 06/10/2018 10:30 am »
They are going to be the dominant tenant at the Cape... they plan to launch 3/4ths of the big rockets that the Cape will see -- vastly more than the Cape has ever launched.

Wrong, they are only 1/4 of the large rockets

Jim, do you mean rocket types or launch numbers? The 4 big rockets would be FH, NG, Vulcan and SLS, I assume.

NB: Funny that F9, which is a HLV in its own right, does not make the cut as a big rocket anymore...
« Last Edit: 06/10/2018 10:35 am by jpo234 »
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline AncientU

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #49 on: 06/10/2018 12:16 pm »
This is a world-class, architecturally distinctive facility with adjacent 200 parking spaces.  (A low, square block house is not.)

So would you mind pointing out the locations in the picture of all the stuff you didn't highlight in the description (which is most of it)?  Is the rest of the facility subterranean?  (Does that thing even have room for a stairwell next to the elevator?)

I described the only 'world-class, architecturally distinctive' structure in the entire document.  Another SpaceX big box is not distinctive or world-class, nor are the side buildings/shops.  The 92m Launch and Landing Control Center is the news... why does that not make sense?  Why wouldn't it serve the purposes of L&L control plus waving the SpaceX flag?  They are going to be the dominant tenant at the Cape... they plan to launch 3/4ths of the big rockets that the Cape will see -- vastly more than the Cape has ever launched.  The tower will give great views of their two (likely becoming three) launch pads and their landing areas.

Also, stairwell...?  The tower is probably 6-8m square -- plenty room for a couple elevators and a stairwell.  With only 200 parking spaces, there will likely be no more than about 200 people in the tower at any time, so emergency egress should be trivial.

Wrong, they are only 1/4 of the large rockets

SpaceX plans to launch over 50 large rockets from the Cape per year... who is going to launch 150 more to make them only 1/4th?  NG(12) + SLS(1) + Vulcan(6-8, being generous) equals about 20 large rocket launches per year -- where are the other 130 launches per year?

Did I mention landings?  SpaceX will do 4/4ths of the booster landings at the Cape each year...
How about Nova-class launches and landings -- 4/4ths again.
« Last Edit: 06/10/2018 12:50 pm by AncientU »
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Jim was showing his lack of social skills again. When he does. Report the post (as people did), but DO NOT quote the post, because your post will be gone via the trim of Jim's bad post.
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Offline edkyle99

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #51 on: 06/10/2018 09:57 pm »
SpaceX plans to launch over 50 large rockets from the Cape per year...
50?  Gwynne Shotwell said that launch numbers - from all of its launch sites combined - will decline next year, to only about 18 from maybe 24-28 this year.  The company is only building 14 first stages this year. 

 - Ed Kyle


« Last Edit: 06/10/2018 09:58 pm by edkyle99 »

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #52 on: 06/10/2018 10:01 pm »
SpaceX plans to launch over 50 large rockets from the Cape per year...
50?  Gwynne Shotwell said that launch numbers will decline next year, to only about 18 from maybe 24-28 this year.  The company is only building 14 first stages this year. 

 - Ed Kyle

Yes 50, and more.  You don't build infrastructure with only a 1 year outlook. SpaceX is planning on StarLink.  Do you want them to start planning infrastructure only after the flight rate materializes?

To quote my gone post, do you want them to build a landing pad only after they successfully land?

I know companies that are still waiting for SpaceX's reusability model to be "proven". Don't expect SpaceX to be one of those companies.
ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

Offline AncientU

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #53 on: 06/10/2018 10:13 pm »
SpaceX plans to launch over 50 large rockets from the Cape per year...
50?  Gwynne Shotwell said that launch numbers - from all of its launch sites combined - will decline next year, to only about 18 from maybe 24-28 this year.  The company is only building 14 first stages this year. 

 - Ed Kyle

50 is a nice round number...

The environmental statement says 54 F9s and 10 FHs per year (assume these are upper limits for sake of the analysis).  The 18 commercial/USG flights for next year may be 'all' they fly if they don't have any Starlink launches ready.  Still, 18 would give them an average of about 20 per year for 2017/18/19 which is R7 territory... as you've said on this forum. 

And then they start launching Starlink.  2200 satellites by 2024, probably all on F9, and another 2200 by 2027.

Gwynne Shotwell says 30-40 per year as the base; Elon Musk says 300 F9/FH launches over the next five years.  USAF is planning to do 48 per year, 3/4ths of which will be from one company.

And BFR.  (The tower is really for BFR launching off of 39A and 39B, but don't tell anyone.)
« Last Edit: 06/10/2018 10:32 pm by AncientU »
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
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Offline AncientU

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #54 on: 06/10/2018 10:19 pm »
... The company is only building 14 first stages this year. 

 - Ed Kyle

And how many launches can those 14 first stages accomplish?
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
-- SpaceX friend of mlindner

Online DistantTemple

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #55 on: 06/10/2018 10:31 pm »
I like the idea of SpaceX having its own centralized facility, but I cannot for the life of me understand why the company would want to force its control team to climb (ride elevators, of course) to the top of a 300-ish foot tower to do their jobs.  That is beyond unnecessary.  It creates safety issues that don't need to be created, etc., and it costs money that doesn't need to be spent.

You are not thinking "Elon". SpaceX really is all about Elon Musk. It is his company. If he wants this done - no matter how unnecessary it is considered to be by others - it will be done.

Although Elon is known for the occasional whimsy, it doesn't usually involve the expenditure of significant amounts of money. So, either it's not actually that much more expensive or it combines functions not readily apparent. And these could be future functions - he's well known for thinking a few steps ahead. There'll be a reason for it; and just because we can't think of a reason doesn't mean there isn't one! (And the reason might not be an engineering one; maybe it's PR, marketing and/or political?)
1. All of EM's buildings, except perhaps McGregor TX, and the LA BFS tent, are bright, exciting, and smart places to work. OK they are mostly boxes.
EM claims his first intention in 2000-2002 was to re-inspire people about space, and therefore increase NASA funding. With the FH Roadster, he repeatedly said that inspiring people is a key aim.
2. Its easy even for SX  believers, not to truly appreciate the possible pace of SX development over the coming 5 - 10 years. However forward planning within SX has to think ahead and line up environmentla assessments, permitting, road building etc, as years could be lost waiting for such paperwork.

IMO EM wants to bring to life his vision of the future, and to do that he wants to get everyone believing in how exciting the vision is, how big the vision is, how fast it will come, and how amazing and futuristic it will be.

He also wants to make sure facilities and paperwork don't hold up the physical roll out of this vision.

« Last Edit: 06/10/2018 10:32 pm by DistantTemple »
We can always grow new new dendrites. Reach out and make connections and your world will burst with new insights. Then repose in consciousness.

Offline spacenut

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #56 on: 06/10/2018 10:32 pm »
When is Starlink going to begin?

Offline AncientU

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #57 on: 06/10/2018 10:49 pm »
When is Starlink going to begin?

Another round of test sats later this year, then production facilities next year.  Launches should start in earnest in 2020... half of 4425 sats need to be on orbit by 2024.  Don't yet know how many per flight (my guess is 20) and whether they'll be launched from both coasts, or all one or the other.  First 800 won't include polar orbits, so all could go from the Cape or Vandenberg; Starlink goes live after those 800.

Here is a great description by oldAtlas_Eguy of what Starlink will do:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=36552.msg1829738#msg1829738
« Last Edit: 06/10/2018 11:12 pm by AncientU »
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
-- SpaceX friend of mlindner

Offline AncientU

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #58 on: 06/10/2018 11:04 pm »
Article:
Quote
SpaceX revives the Space Coast
Quote
This year, SpaceX submitted plans to NASA to expand its operations at Kennedy Space Center.

This is quite a change from how things looked back in 2013, Space Coast resident Joe Manke recalls. He says after the government shutdown, which lead to 97 percent of NASA’S workforce to be furloughed, people started moving away.

"People started leaving and the housing market went down," Manke said. "That's how I was able to afford buying my house."

SpaceX's expansion plans include a launch and landing control center about 300 feet high and adding a 133,000 square foot hangar to refurbish and reuse Falcon vehicles.
http://www.mynews13.com/fl/orlando/news/2018/06/10/spacex-revives-the-space-coast
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
-- SpaceX friend of mlindner

Offline Functor

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #59 on: 06/10/2018 11:26 pm »
Theoretically could this structure be built on a retired Falcon?

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