Author Topic: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)  (Read 277300 times)

Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #20 on: 06/09/2018 12:13 am »
I like the idea of SpaceX having its own centralized facility, but I cannot for the life of me understand why the company would want to force its control team to climb (ride elevators, of course) to the top of a 300-ish foot tower to do their jobs.  That is beyond unnecessary.  It creates safety issues that don't need to be created, etc., and it costs money that doesn't need to be spent.

 - Ed Kyle

Elon names things out of sci fi stories.  Having a Dr Evil launch control center tower doesnít seem like a stretch.  He wants things that look cool.

Air Traffic Control Towers are built and used all the time.  Not much risk there.
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Online gongora

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #21 on: 06/09/2018 12:35 am »
That looks more like a viewing tower for the public rather than a control team building. My assumption would be that this is either a misunderstanding with the wrong artwork.
Two SpaceX reps were involved in the creation of the document (page 55). I doubt they would sign off on having an incorrect description or the wrong artwork.

There's no way that picture is the proposed control center described in the document.  Far too small.

Offline M.E.T.

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #22 on: 06/09/2018 12:50 am »
Well, this would certainly be awesome.

It would be interesting to see how they plan to fund this alongside $10bn expenditure on BFR development and $10bn on Starlink development, all happening roughly in the same 4-year period, while generating maybe $2bn in launch revenue each year.

And all while not relinquishing control of the company by giving shares away to new investors.

Not saying it canít be done, but the exact funding mechanism remains one of the things I am most interested in about this grand endeavour.
« Last Edit: 06/09/2018 12:51 am by M.E.T. »

Offline Lars-J

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #23 on: 06/09/2018 01:27 am »
That looks more like a viewing tower for the public rather than a control team building. My assumption would be that this is either a misunderstanding with the wrong artwork.
Two SpaceX reps were involved in the creation of the document (page 55). I doubt they would sign off on having an incorrect description or the wrong artwork.

There's no way that picture is the proposed control center described in the document.  Far too small.

Exactly. The artwork does not match the application.

Offline RotoSequence

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #24 on: 06/09/2018 01:43 am »
I love the 1960s supervillain chic of it.  ;D

Offline docmordrid

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #25 on: 06/09/2018 02:03 am »
That looks more like a viewing tower for the public rather than a control team building. My assumption would be that this is either a misunderstanding with the wrong artwork.
Two SpaceX reps were involved in the creation of the document (page 55). I doubt they would sign off on having an incorrect description or the wrong artwork.

There's no way that picture is the proposed control center described in the document.  Far too small.

Exactly. The artwork does not match the application.

If the supervillain tower isn't notional, the graphics may not show a pedestal structure with most of the square footage.

Site plan,
« Last Edit: 06/09/2018 02:04 am by docmordrid »
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Offline Kabloona

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #26 on: 06/09/2018 02:33 am »
That looks more like a viewing tower for the public rather than a control team building. My assumption would be that this is either a misunderstanding with the wrong artwork.
Two SpaceX reps were involved in the creation of the document (page 55). I doubt they would sign off on having an incorrect description or the wrong artwork.

There's no way that picture is the proposed control center described in the document.  Far too small.

Re-read carefully the text docmordrid highlighted in his post upthread.

Probably the confusion is in the description of the 32,000 sq ft "Launch Control Center." This is probably the blue rectangle on the map marked "Launch Control and VIP Area." I'm guessing it will comprise a low-height launch control room building, and a customer viewing tower, of smaller square footage.

But I think James Dean of Florida Today conflated the text description of the 32,000 sq ft "Launch Control Center", which is notionally only a rectangular portion of land within the complex, with the tower graphic, and assumed the tower was going to be a 32,000 sq ft tower including all the "launch control center" functions.

But the SpaceX graphic with the tower shows that most of the 32,000 sq ft "Launch Control Center" area is actually a parking lot. With a much smaller tower.

So what we're seeing is likely the customer viewing tower, not the actual launch control building. They would logically both be located in that blue rectangle marked "Launch Control and VIP Area."




« Last Edit: 06/09/2018 03:18 am by Kabloona »

Offline docmordrid

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #27 on: 06/09/2018 02:55 am »
>
The actual launch control room/building, as others have suggested, would probably be larger and impractical to put up in a tower, so that would likely be at ground level as usual.

Both of those structures would probably go in the blue rectangle marked "Launch Control and VIP."

ISTM the LCC will be to the VIP tower as Fort Wood is to the Statue of Liberty.
« Last Edit: 06/09/2018 02:56 am by docmordrid »
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Offline Kabloona

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #28 on: 06/09/2018 03:06 am »
>
The actual launch control room/building, as others have suggested, would probably be larger and impractical to put up in a tower, so that would likely be at ground level as usual.

Both of those structures would probably go in the blue rectangle marked "Launch Control and VIP."

ISTM the LCC will be to the VIP tower as Fort Wood is to the Statue of Liberty.

Exactly. The graphic shows the customer viewing tower but fails to show the rather more mundane  launch control building beneath/beside the tower. It's just a box, so who cares? Apparently not the artist.

Evidently a very preliminary rendering.
« Last Edit: 06/09/2018 03:22 am by Kabloona »

Offline Nomadd

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #29 on: 06/09/2018 03:59 am »
 Definitely not my area of expertise, but is there any particular reason SpaceX couldn't be planning a major advance in control center technology  that would require a lot fewer people and stations? Maybe tying in with getting rid of static fires by letting computers handle the job in the first second after ignition that committees handle after a static fire now?
« Last Edit: 06/16/2018 05:03 am by Nomadd »
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Offline AncientU

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #30 on: 06/09/2018 11:10 am »
Well, this would certainly be awesome.

It would be interesting to see how they plan to fund this alongside $10bn expenditure on BFR development and $10bn on Starlink development, all happening roughly in the same 4-year period, while generating maybe $2bn in launch revenue each year.

And all while not relinquishing control of the company by giving shares away to new investors.

Not saying it canít be done, but the exact funding mechanism remains one of the things I am most interested in about this grand endeavour.

People said the same thing when Tesla started talking about a 'Gigafactory'.  Why would a boutique battery-electric car maker need such a monstrosity?  (They are now planning 10-12 Gigafactories.)  Or why would anyone need a Nova-class rocket that could launch as frequently as daily? Or a 12,000 satellite constellation? ...
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Offline philw1776

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #31 on: 06/09/2018 11:11 am »
Definately not my area of expertise, but is there any particular reason SpaceX couldn't be planning a major advance in control center technology  that would require a lot fewer people and stations? Maybe tying in with getting rid of static fires by letting computers handle the job in the first second after ignition that committees handle after a static fire now?

They need to. Launch Ops is a major cost, well-trained people, etc. If you're going to have low cost rapid re-flight airline style, a permanent standing army of well paid engineers like seen at Houston's MSC, etc. needs to be minimized.
The ultimate expression of this is the BFR landing right back on its launch cradle.
All this will take years to happen, but without an aggressive end goal it has no chance of happening.
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Offline Michel Van

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #32 on: 06/09/2018 11:24 am »
That Tower will give a excellent view
From Launch pad 39A over to Launch pad 40 and Landing zones

i think that Tower is for VIP looking to launch and landing

next to that, the Area is only partly occupied
seems that empty space is reserve for the BFR installation to be build in future.

I wonder will the Texas installation feature similar VIP tower ?
if the first launches start there, (special Falcon Heavy ) it will attract allot locals and Tourist to this event

Offline AncientU

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #33 on: 06/09/2018 11:50 am »
That looks more like a viewing tower for the public rather than a control team building. My assumption would be that this is either a misunderstanding with the wrong artwork.
Two SpaceX reps were involved in the creation of the document (page 55). I doubt they would sign off on having an incorrect description or the wrong artwork.

There's no way that picture is the proposed control center described in the document.  Far too small.

The description:
Quote
Launch and Landing Control Center
The launch and landing control center would be of sufficient size to host a data center; firing room; engineering room; control center for Falcon 9, Falcon Heavy and Dragon; customer control center; temporary customer offices; and indoor and outdoor meeting space. The launch control center is envisioned to be world-class, architecturally distinctive, and equipped for satellite, cargo, and crew missions (Figure 2-2).
Figure 2-2 is below

Quote
The launch and landing control center would occupy an approximate footprint of 2,973 m2 (32,000 ft2) with the maximum height of the building not to exceed 92 m (300 ft). The facility would also include an adjacent parking facility for up to 200 vehicles, with access via paved roads.

This is a world-class, architecturally distinctive facility with adjacent 200 parking spaces.  (A low, square block house is not.)
« Last Edit: 06/09/2018 11:58 am by AncientU »
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Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #34 on: 06/09/2018 12:01 pm »
Screenshot from the EA

Online gongora

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #35 on: 06/09/2018 02:23 pm »
This is a world-class, architecturally distinctive facility with adjacent 200 parking spaces.  (A low, square block house is not.)

So would you mind pointing out the locations in the picture of all the stuff you didn't highlight in the description (which is most of it)?  Is the rest of the facility subterranean?  (Does that thing even have room for a stairwell next to the elevator?)
« Last Edit: 06/09/2018 02:23 pm by gongora »

Offline Jim

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #36 on: 06/09/2018 02:28 pm »
That will keep their construction crews busy after their pad work in Boca and factory in long beach in a few years.



It would be not be their pad crew.  This is a general contractor type job

Offline Jim

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #37 on: 06/09/2018 02:33 pm »
Definately not my area of expertise, but is there any particular reason SpaceX couldn't be planning a major advance in control center technology  that would require a lot fewer people and stations? Maybe tying in with getting rid of static fires by letting computers handle the job in the first second after ignition that committees handle after a static fire now?

They need to. Launch Ops is a major cost, well-trained people, etc. If you're going to have low cost rapid re-flight airline style, a permanent standing army of well paid engineers like seen at Houston's MSC, etc. needs to be minimized.
The ultimate expression of this is the BFR landing right back on its launch cradle.
All this will take years to happen, but without an aggressive end goal it has no chance of happening.


no and no.  The launch control center technology is at a minimum.  Computers do handle the job and a few people monitor the computers.  There is no "committee' 

MCC is not the same as LCC

Offline philw1776

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #38 on: 06/09/2018 02:49 pm »
Definately not my area of expertise, but is there any particular reason SpaceX couldn't be planning a major advance in control center technology  that would require a lot fewer people and stations? Maybe tying in with getting rid of static fires by letting computers handle the job in the first second after ignition that committees handle after a static fire now?

They need to. Launch Ops is a major cost, well-trained people, etc. If you're going to have low cost rapid re-flight airline style, a permanent standing army of well paid engineers like seen at Houston's MSC, etc. needs to be minimized.
The ultimate expression of this is the BFR landing right back on its launch cradle.
All this will take years to happen, but without an aggressive end goal it has no chance of happening.


no and no.  The launch control center technology is at a minimum.  Computers do handle the job and a few people monitor the computers.  There is no "committee' 

MCC is not the same as LCC

Thanks for the correction
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Offline Ludus

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Re: New SpaceX Operations Complex at the Cape (Roberts Rd.)
« Reply #39 on: 06/09/2018 04:14 pm »
Iíd have thought (but could easily be misunderstanding) that SpaceX has a small crew in a very modest building there for launches now and wouldnít need much more in the future in that role. The mission control setup in Hawthorne doesnít change. Launch control is mostly on launch days so the majority of the time is unused?

This facility would be a mile from the KSC Visitor center with a 300í very distinctive tower, a rocket garden and plenty of parking. That seems like itís more public facing than Blue Origins facilities.

A tower like that, in that location, would likely be a successful tourist site even if it didnít have the additional publicity of being a real working SpaceX facility. Thereís nothing else around there with a good view.

Id think itís a place for customers and corporate guests to watch launches and Tourists to visit for the view, thatís enhanced by actually also doing launch control.

The hanger is practical but might also do occasional tours. The Rocket garden answers the question about where to put stuff laying around like a recovered faring that canít be reused.



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