Author Topic: LandSpace's LongMarch-2 class launcher ZhuQue-2 and 70t Methalox engine  (Read 65342 times)

Offline Ultrafamicom

  • Member
  • Posts: 73
  • Liked: 22
  • Likes Given: 27
On April 23rd,  Landspace announced their Methalox Medium-lift launch vehicle, Zhuque-2(Vermilion Bird-2) and its powerplant, the in-house manufactured Methalox Engine Tianque-1 (magpie-1) in the first China Astronautical Congress.

The specifications are from the presentation PPT attached below.

Delivered in 2020
2 Stages
Payload Capacity 1.5t @500km SSO
                         1.1t @700km SSO
                         3.6t @200km LEO
Length 48.8 meter
Diameter 3.35m
Lift-off mass 230t
Lift-off thrust 270t
Basically, the rocket looks like a Methalox powered, stretched CZ-2. However, the payload ratio is terrible for a methalox launcher,  even if we regard this as the reusable payload. And it looks like the rocket does not have restart capacity and requires direct insertion into SSO.

Source: https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/Pqfq0WLHu77dGO9YtO4vsQ (Landspace's Official Wechat page)

(edit: correct grammar and factual error)
« Last Edit: 04/24/2018 05:41 am by Ultrafamicom »

Offline Ultrafamicom

  • Member
  • Posts: 73
  • Liked: 22
  • Likes Given: 27
There is no source about Tianque-1 engine, but conference attenders acquired its specification:

Cycle: GG
SL Thrust: 67.2 tonnes
SL Isp: 283s
Vacuum Thrust: 78 tonnes
Vacuum Isp: 334s
Height: <3.95m
Mass: <1.38t
Nozzle diameter: 1.52m

From the Isp curve and Nozzle diameter, it seems the nozzle is a bit over-expanded for an SL engine. Given the relatively poor performance of the whole launcher, I think it may follow Falcon 5's approach of using the same engine and nozzle for both stages, ease manufacture at a cost of performance.

Offline Comet

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 361
  • Liked: 134
  • Likes Given: 21

Offline Comet

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 361
  • Liked: 134
  • Likes Given: 21

Offline Comet

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 361
  • Liked: 134
  • Likes Given: 21

Offline Lsquirrel

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 114
  • Liked: 68
  • Likes Given: 3
On July 5,LandSpace revealed their Methalox engine and launch vehicles in Water Cube,I attended this conference and
interviewed senior engineer Yuan Yu

1 photo:TianQue engine and ZhuQue-1 solid rocket  next to the water cube
2 photo:ZhuQue-1 solid rocket(will be lauch this year for demonstration)
3 photo:TianQue Methalox early concept model
4 photo:senior research and development engineer YuanYu(袁宇)
 
« Last Edit: 07/07/2018 12:26 pm by Lsquirrel »

Offline Lsquirrel

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 114
  • Liked: 68
  • Likes Given: 3
On July 5,LandSpace revealed their Methalox engine and launch vehicles in Water Cube,I attended this conference and
interviewed senior engineer Yuan Yu

1 photo:TianQue engine and ZhuQue-1 solid rocket  next to the water cube
2 photo:ZhuQue-1 solid rocket(will be lauch this year for demonstration)
3 photo:TianQue Methalox early concept model
4 photo:senior research and development engineer YuanYu(袁宇)

Yuan is my friend, we have known for several years.
He have joined calt11, participated in developing China LOX/LH2 engine,and attended IAC-13 conference which held in Beijing,
Now he is a critical engineer in TianQue Methalox engine development team.

We talked about Landspace, Zhu Que Launch Vehicle, especially Tian Que Engine

Landspace Have an development plan, first a solid launch vehicle, which named LS-1, it's likely a clone of Long March 11.
CASC and CASIC announced that their won't sold solid motor in 2017,Landspace had to develop indigenous liquid engine,which named Tian Que-1(now phoenix),a 8 tonne class engine



Offline Lsquirrel

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 114
  • Liked: 68
  • Likes Given: 3
they started development of Tian Que-2 engine in August 2017
Tian Que-1/Phoenix scaled combustion chamber ignition success in March 2018
Tian Que-2(Tian Que) engine will be ignition on end of 2018, or ealy 2019 in Hu Zhou, Ze Jiang Province

Tian Que engine specifications:
Propellants: LOX/LNG
Cycle: GG
SL Thrust: 67 tonnes
Vacuum Thrust: 76/80 tonnes (Stage I/Stage II)
Vacuum Isp: 350s(Stage II)
Mass: <1.39t
Nozzle diameter: 1020mm(Stage I)/1500mm(Stage II)

Yuan told participants that TQ engine will increase thrust by 50%, reduce cost by 50% and mass by 30%, their goal is to produce 200 engines per year for 30 Zhu Que-2 LVs
« Last Edit: 07/07/2018 01:50 pm by Lsquirrel »

Offline Lsquirrel

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 114
  • Liked: 68
  • Likes Given: 3
Zhu Que-2 is a medium launch vehicle, the baseline configration is ZQ-2,whicl LEO Payload to 200km/4000kg
they will developing a Zhu Que-2 family which include ZQ-2,ZQ-2A,ZA-2B and ZA-2C

ZQ-2 is a 2-stages launch vehicle:
Length 48.8 m
Diameter 3.35m
Lift-off mass 216 tonnes
Lift-off thrust 268 tonnes

2000kg@500km SSO
4000kg@200km LEO

ZQ-2A is a 3-stages launch vehicle, it's payload capability increased to 6 tonnes@200km LEO,Lift-off mass 225 tonnes
ZQ-2B is a 3-stages launch vehicle, which uses two additional booster cores, it's payload capability increased to 17 tonnes@200km LEO,Lift-off mass 550 tonnes
ZQ-2C is a 3-stages launch vehicle, which uses two additional booster cores, it's payload capability increased to 32 tonnes@200km LEO,Lift-off mass 870 tonnes

ZQ-2 will be reusable,the know-how is confidential now. they will demonstrated resuable technology in maiden launch,wait until 2020 or 2021
TQ and ZQ-2 designed with multiple reuses, up to 20 reuses
« Last Edit: 07/08/2018 02:07 am by Lsquirrel »

Offline jw897

  • Member
  • Posts: 5
  • Brooklyn
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 1
Lsquirrel, do you know where those recent pictures are from? Is there a recording of the 5 July conference?

Offline GreenShrike

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 279
  • Liked: 327
  • Likes Given: 682
This launcher was mentioned (among others) at Spacenews (https://spacenews.com/commercial-chinese-companies-set-sights-on-methalox-rockets-first-orbital-launches/).

Interesting vehicle, if they can recover it.

268t lift-off thrust using 67t engines implies four engines. Squinting at some of the pics (ZQ-2 configs.JPG in particular), I seem to count more than that, but it's hard to tell. Regardless, four engines would make propulsive landings very sporty, unless the Tianque engines throttle very deeply indeed -- especially if they use a square engine layout with no central engine, and not a Y, which would provide one.

Perhaps their 'confidential' approach will borrow a page from BFS' layout, with smaller central landing engines nestled in the middle of the group of main engines. Reusabililty might amortize the cost of such dedicated engines.

I do find it a bit odd that they're apparently going with separate propellant tanks joined with an intertank section, when one of the benefits of using methalox is that the two propellants are so close in temperature that it's relatively easy to use a common bulkhead. I can't imagine this does any favours for their payload ratio.

Another benefit of methalox is the capacity for autogenous pressurisation; will they be pursuing this or falling back on helium? I don't see any COPVs in the graphics, but that probably doesn't mean anything.

Also, any idea what will be powering the third stage in their future three-stage variants?

Finally, was any insight provided behind their engineering choices?
TriOptimum Corporation            Science
                                      Military /_\ Consumer

Offline Gliderflyer

I stumbled across this on twitter. It looks like LandSpace is also planing some kind of XS-1 style reusable vehicle.

https://twitter.com/EL2squirrel/status/1015227950558478337
Quote
Landspace have a long-term plan, develop a spaceplane named Tsing Lung/Qing Long/Green Dragon, a spaceplane superior to XCOR LYNX
I tried it at home

Offline Lsquirrel

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 114
  • Liked: 68
  • Likes Given: 3
Lsquirrel, do you know where those recent pictures are from? Is there a recording of the 5 July conference?

bingo! they are from the 5 July conference held in Water Cube

Offline Lsquirrel

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 114
  • Liked: 68
  • Likes Given: 3
Also, any idea what will be powering the third stage in their future three-stage variants?

Tianque-1(Now Phoenix) is a 8 tonnes class methalox engine, it will be powering the third stage of ZhuQue Launch Vehicle.
while the Phoenix's pump used for vernier engine of second stage,it will be powering four vernier engines( thrust 2 tonnes,a methalox clone of CZ-2C's design)

Offline Comet

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 361
  • Liked: 134
  • Likes Given: 21
Probably the REAL launcher

Offline SmallKing

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 426
  • Zhejiang, China, the Earth
  • Liked: 189
  • Likes Given: 220
Some are bound for happiness, some are bound to glory, some are bound to live with less, who can tell your story?


Offline russianhalo117

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8788
  • Liked: 4700
  • Likes Given: 768
Probably the REAL launcher
looks distinctly like a facility used by a different state corp.

Offline jw897

  • Member
  • Posts: 5
  • Brooklyn
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 1
Probably the REAL launcher
looks distinctly like a facility used by a different state corp.

Which facility? One of CASC's maybe?

Offline Kryten

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 735
  • Liked: 426
  • Likes Given: 33
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1045218590641852416
Quote
Landspace tests Tianque-12 80-tonne methalox engine combustion chamber for its Zhuque-2 launch vehicle

 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
0