Railways and tunnels only go between to points.Off road vehicles go in all directions there is ground under them.So use trucks with trailers behind them.No maintenance of rails or tubes. Just smooth out the path and if it is damaged could just go around it till fixed later unlike a damaged rail track.Easy to move a small colony if there is not to much infrastructure.At some point if the population grow and there was to colonizes to go between or and space port then they might install a tunnel made if iron ( seems to be plenty of that lying around ). Large enough diameter could add power lines, water, gas, ect. Don't think it would be pressurized above surface atmospheric pressure.
Quote from: gbaikie on 08/23/2013 02:25 amQuote from: Hyperion5 on 08/22/2013 11:19 pmSo let's say it's been two decades after first landfall and we've got some substantial infrastructure in place. The martian authorities discover a big deposit of water 150 km away and decide they need to build a settlement nearby. What's the best way of both taking materials and the power required to build it there? CO/O2-powered trucks?Methalox-powered trucks? Electric trucks? CO/O2-powered trains?Methalox-powered trains? Electric trains? Nuclear-powered trains? Now I know what you're thinking--that last one sounds crazy. But bear in mind, you can set rails to whatever gauge you want on Mars! A nuclear-powered locomotive or two would give you complete operating independence, allowing rapid construction of the line there, massive haul capacity, no worries about resupply, and it'd be able to power the settlement up in the early days before it's connected to the grid. I wouldn't use it for much else, but there is something to be said for taking a massive, reliable source of power with you to the building site. I've said my part, so I'll let everyone else conjecture as to the best way to bring a settlement into being using martian transport means. Pipes.Avg temp is below zero, so water in pipes would freeze, I'd think?Cheers, Martin
Quote from: Hyperion5 on 08/22/2013 11:19 pmSo let's say it's been two decades after first landfall and we've got some substantial infrastructure in place. The martian authorities discover a big deposit of water 150 km away and decide they need to build a settlement nearby. What's the best way of both taking materials and the power required to build it there? CO/O2-powered trucks?Methalox-powered trucks? Electric trucks? CO/O2-powered trains?Methalox-powered trains? Electric trains? Nuclear-powered trains? Now I know what you're thinking--that last one sounds crazy. But bear in mind, you can set rails to whatever gauge you want on Mars! A nuclear-powered locomotive or two would give you complete operating independence, allowing rapid construction of the line there, massive haul capacity, no worries about resupply, and it'd be able to power the settlement up in the early days before it's connected to the grid. I wouldn't use it for much else, but there is something to be said for taking a massive, reliable source of power with you to the building site. I've said my part, so I'll let everyone else conjecture as to the best way to bring a settlement into being using martian transport means. Pipes.
So let's say it's been two decades after first landfall and we've got some substantial infrastructure in place. The martian authorities discover a big deposit of water 150 km away and decide they need to build a settlement nearby. What's the best way of both taking materials and the power required to build it there? CO/O2-powered trucks?Methalox-powered trucks? Electric trucks? CO/O2-powered trains?Methalox-powered trains? Electric trains? Nuclear-powered trains? Now I know what you're thinking--that last one sounds crazy. But bear in mind, you can set rails to whatever gauge you want on Mars! A nuclear-powered locomotive or two would give you complete operating independence, allowing rapid construction of the line there, massive haul capacity, no worries about resupply, and it'd be able to power the settlement up in the early days before it's connected to the grid. I wouldn't use it for much else, but there is something to be said for taking a massive, reliable source of power with you to the building site. I've said my part, so I'll let everyone else conjecture as to the best way to bring a settlement into being using martian transport means.
I think I heard somewhere that Mars atmosphere actually does suck heat away very effectively, at least it is nothing like a linear relationship with pressure. Can anyone confirm that?
Quote from: KelvinZero on 08/24/2013 06:00 amI think I heard somewhere that Mars atmosphere actually does suck heat away very effectively, at least it is nothing like a linear relationship with pressure. Can anyone confirm that?One is convection and that is very much reduced due to the thin martian air.One is conduction which surprisingly (to me) is not much reduced. But conduction of heat in air is already low on earth. Heat loss due to atmosphere on earth is much more convection so much reduced on Mars though I cannot quantify.
For people planing on using electric vehicles on Mars, here is the state of the art on the Earth.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23810535
Quote from: A_M_Swallow on 08/25/2013 12:28 amFor people planing on using electric vehicles on Mars, here is the state of the art on the Earth.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23810535That's not the "state-of-the-art" that people here were talking about, Swallow. They're talking about battery-powered electric cars like this bad boy: http://blog.roundrockoffices.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/tesla-model-s.jpg. The advantages of going with batteries are many, starting with the amount of power you can store in the car. The car can still be solar-powered, but via a power grid hooked up to large solar panels, not solar panels on it. Tesla's making a good case for why you'd want to have electric cars powered by batteries on Mars. The only real issue, besides range, appears to be insulating the batteries. Does anyone know what kind of difficulties something like a Tesla Model S (but modified for martian roads) would have on Mars? How would the batteries hold up?
@gbaikie,Unless the flow in the pipe is turbulent, I'd think you will get a layer of ice forming on the shaded side of the pipe.
I also think it's unlikely that you'll be able to setup the pipe to be all-downhill, which is necessary for the pipe to drain towards the end of the day. Pipes are almost always pumped, I believe.
However, I'd think the water could start out pretty hot, and be re-heated along the way - perhaps at pumping stations.
Quote from: Hyperion5 on 08/25/2013 12:36 amQuote from: A_M_Swallow on 08/25/2013 12:28 amFor people planing on using electric vehicles on Mars, here is the state of the art on the Earth.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23810535That's not the "state-of-the-art" that people here were talking about, Swallow. They're talking about battery-powered electric cars like this bad boy: http://blog.roundrockoffices.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/tesla-model-s.jpg. The advantages of going with batteries are many, starting with the amount of power you can store in the car. The car can still be solar-powered, but via a power grid hooked up to large solar panels, not solar panels on it. Tesla's making a good case for why you'd want to have electric cars powered by batteries on Mars. The only real issue, besides range, appears to be insulating the batteries. Does anyone know what kind of difficulties something like a Tesla Model S (but modified for martian roads) would have on Mars? How would the batteries hold up? IIRC the batteries on the Tesla model S is liquid cooled and control by the car's computer. It is almost Martian ready, just need radiator side body panels added. You could put 2 Tesla battery packs into 2 separate chassis modules with six hub motor driven wheels total and get something like the M561 Gama Goat articulated truck used by the US Army in the 70's and 80's.Quite sure Tesla Motors should come up with something interesting for Martian surface transportation. Since they have the electrical motor & battery technology in house.
Now this talk about Tesla tech on Mars is a fun topic. So let's say Elon tasks a few engineers with creating a "martian" Tesla Model S. What modifications would the car need to be able to handle the martian environment and terrain?...
A lot of people have put a ton of thought into getting to Mars, terraforming it, expanding living space and landing on Mars here on NSF. However, I found there doesn't seem to be a lot of thought given to how best to move around once we get there.
Rovers
The one downside is batteries tend to lose charge over time, so it would not be a great option for travel away from settled areas.
Railroads
Flying