Author Topic: Gunbarrel company hopes to help fill shuttle void  (Read 23808 times)

Offline Chris Bergin

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Offline hyper_snyper

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Re: Gunbarrel company hopes to help fill shuttle void
« Reply #1 on: 06/22/2006 05:54 pm »
And people say the CEV looks ugly...

Offline PlanetStorm

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Re: Gunbarrel company hopes to help fill shuttle void
« Reply #2 on: 06/23/2006 02:04 pm »
Quote
hyper_snyper - 22/6/2006  12:41 PM

And people say the CEV looks ugly...

I must have a different idea of what "ugly" means than you do. The CEV is beautifully designed to fit its basic purpose and it gains its excitement from what it can do, not how it looks. The HL 20 has a different mission but is also beautiful in its own way. There would be nothing beautiful in watching a streamlined, elegant winged vessel trying and failing to get to or go beyond LEO.

Offline JesseD

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RE: Gunbarrel company hopes to help fill shuttle void
« Reply #3 on: 06/23/2006 03:46 pm »
Space.com has an article with a really nice-looking picture.  ooo... fog..... :)

Offline PlanetStorm

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RE: Gunbarrel company hopes to help fill shuttle void
« Reply #4 on: 06/23/2006 04:59 pm »

In terms of aerodynamic shape, what are the principle differences between the X38 and the HL 20?

Offline Mogster

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Re: Gunbarrel company hopes to help fill shuttle void
« Reply #5 on: 06/23/2006 10:13 pm »
'The HL 20 was originally designed by NASA, he said, based on a similar ship the Soviet Union put into orbit four times'

http://www.longmontfyi.com/Local-Story.asp?id=8369

That's a quote from the article. So is the HL20 basically the X38? What's this Russian vehicle they mention?

I can see the rationale behind the CEV but it would be great if the COTS initiative produced a shuttle type vehicle for LEO service.

Offline Jim

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Re: Gunbarrel company hopes to help fill shuttle void
« Reply #6 on: 06/23/2006 10:28 pm »
X-38 was derived from the HL-20 which was derived from the HL-10, which flew from 1966 to 75 at EAFB

BOR-4 and Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-105 "Spiral"

Offline hop

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Re: Gunbarrel company hopes to help fill shuttle void
« Reply #7 on: 06/23/2006 10:42 pm »
The picture in the first link isn't very flattering, but I always thought the HL-20 and BOR-4/Spiral were quite photogenic. I'd like to see one of them fly for purely aesthetic reasons :).  YMMV of course.

The Spiral variable geometry wing is also a neat concept.

Offline mlorrey

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Re: Gunbarrel company hopes to help fill shuttle void
« Reply #8 on: 06/24/2006 03:43 am »
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Jim - 23/6/2006  5:15 PM

X-38 was derived from the HL-20 which was derived from the HL-10, which flew from 1966 to 75 at EAFB

BOR-4 and Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-105 "Spiral"

The HL-20 is more derived from the BOR-4 and Mig-105 than from the HL-10. If you are going to compare the HL-20/X-38 to any earlier US lifting body, it would resemble the X-24A.
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Offline Dana

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Re: Gunbarrel company hopes to help fill shuttle void
« Reply #9 on: 06/24/2006 10:03 am »
Quote
Jim - 23/6/2006  3:15 PM

X-38 was derived from the HL-20 which was derived from the HL-10, which flew from 1966 to 75 at EAFB

BOR-4 and Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-105 "Spiral"

Last flight of the HL-10 was on July 17, 1970. The M2-F3's last flight was on Dec. 21, 1972. Of the original Lifting Bodies, the X-24 was the one that lasted until 1975. After the baked-potato-shaped X-24A was modified (EXTENSIVELY) to become the wedge-shaped X-24B, its last flight was on November 26, 1975.

1. X-24A
2. X-24B (same X-24A airframe as above, extensively modified)
3. HL-10 (You dropped the gear pretty late in a Lifting Body!)
4. M2-F2 (later modified after 1967 crash to become M2-F3) and F-104 chase
5. MiG-105 SPIRAL
6. BOR-4
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Offline PlanetStorm

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Re: Gunbarrel company hopes to help fill shuttle void
« Reply #10 on: 06/24/2006 03:05 pm »

The X-24A actually flew? That is some lifting body - it doesn't seem to have any wings at all!

Offline PlanetStorm

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Offline Dana

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"Don't play dumb with me! You're not as good at it as I am!"-Col. Flagg

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Offline Jim

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Re: Gunbarrel company hopes to help fill shuttle void
« Reply #13 on: 06/25/2006 01:39 am »
I don't think the last photo of the BOR-4 is it.  Look it up on wikipedia

Offline mlorrey

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Re: Gunbarrel company hopes to help fill shuttle void
« Reply #14 on: 06/25/2006 03:03 am »
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PlanetStorm - 24/6/2006  9:52 AM


The X-24A actually flew? That is some lifting body - it doesn't seem to have any wings at all!

That is why its called a lifting body = See Ma? No wings!!!
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Offline mlorrey

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Offline Jim

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Re: Gunbarrel company hopes to help fill shuttle void
« Reply #16 on: 06/25/2006 03:16 am »
supply the proof of its flights.

Offline mlorrey

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Re: Gunbarrel company hopes to help fill shuttle void
« Reply #17 on: 06/25/2006 03:54 am »
Quote
Jim - 24/6/2006  10:03 PM

supply the proof of its flights.

These documents do a pretty good job of documenting NASA involvement in X-24C until they pulled out for budget reasons, however the documents do not seem to be available any longer on NASA servers...

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19790007769_1979007769.pdf
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19790008668_1979008668.pdf

Beyond this, X-24C continued solely under USAF control.

Some say it was cancelled, others say it simply went black. It was based extensively on FDL-5 lifting body concepts, and included both a rocket engine to reach altitude and speed of mach 6-8, and a ramjet to cruise at mach 6. Lockheed engineers say their internal design designation was the L-301.

The design was extensively tested in Arnold AFB wind tunnels (there are photos in Arnold archives and online documenting this).

Here is an interesting excerpt from Avleak:

2004-01-12 Aviation Week & Space Technology, in "Industry Outlook" on page 13:

SECRET STREAKER? On the morning of Jan. 7, an aircraft using call sign "Lockheed Test 2334" told the FAA's Albuquerque Center it would be "going supersonic somewhere above Flight Level 60 [60,000 ft.]" for about 10 sec. It was flying over the Pecos Military Operating Area in eastern New Mexico at the time, transmitting on 350.350 MHz. When a center controller queried, "Say aircraft type," the unidentified vehicle's pilot responded: "We are a classified type and can't reveal our true altitude." About 15min. later, the same pilot - on a different frequency (351.700 MHz.) - requested permission for a decent to 30,000 ft. and flight-following to "Las Vegas with a final destination somewhere in the Nellis Range" complex. The U.S. Air Force's super-secret Groom Lake test facility is located in the northwest portion of the Nellis AFB, Nev., ranges. The Albuquerque Center controller quipped, "Trip home a bit slower, eh?" There was no response from the classified aircraft. The radio interchanges were recorded by Steve Douglass, a "military radio monitor" hobbyist in Amarillo, Tex.

Anyways, I've attached some Lockheed documents of the L-301/X-24C
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Offline mlorrey

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Re: Gunbarrel company hopes to help fill shuttle void
« Reply #18 on: 06/25/2006 05:04 am »
X-24C continued under USAF control after NASA cancellation of its portion of the program. USAF code name was Copper Coast and prototype reportedly first flew in 1981, but operational versions were allegedly cancelled in favor of the General Dynamics F-121 Sentinel (aka Centennial), which took over SR-71 recon duties. Once GD was taken over by Lockheed, the vehicle production returned to LM control. F-121 is a mach 3+ recon vehicle stationed at Groom Lake. There are four vehicles operating out of hangars 20-23. It has a 65 degree delta planform, with ventral air intakes blended into the fuselage.
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Offline Mogster

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Re: Gunbarrel company hopes to help fill shuttle void
« Reply #19 on: 06/25/2006 11:36 am »
From the press drawings the HL20 seems to be strapped to the side of its ET STS style, doesn't that make any sort of lauch abort difficult?

Tags: copper coast X-30 L-301 DOD 
 

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