Mars Airplane discussions

[rdale]

The Aerial Regional-Scale Environmental Survey (ARES) is a Mars exploration mission concept that utilizes a rocket propelled airplane to take scientific measurements of atmospheric, surface, and subsurface phenomena. The liquid rocket propulsion system design has matured through several design cycles and trade studies since the inception of the ARES concept in 2002. This paper describes the process of selecting a bipropellant system over other propulsion system options, and provides details on the rocket system design, thrusters, propellant tank and PMD design, propellant isolation, and flow control hardware. The paper also summarizes computer model results of thruster plume interactions and simulated flight performance. The airplane has a 6.25 m wingspan with a total wet mass of 185 kg and has to ability to fly over 600 km through the atmosphere of Mars with 45 kg of MMH / MON3 propellant.

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20080030375_2008030027.pdf

[MB123]

Is this mission going ahead? last I heard the launch had not actually been scheduled?

[Jim]

Is this mission going ahead? last I heard the launch had not actually been scheduled?

No.  It hasn't been selected for a mission yet

[rdale]

    The Aerial Regional-Scale Environmental Survey (ARES) is a Mars exploration mission concept with the goal of taking scientific measurements of the atmosphere, surface, and subsurface of Mars by using an airplane as the payload platform. ARES team first conducted a Phase-A study for a 2007 launch opportunity, which was completed in May 2003. Following this study, significant efforts were undertaken to reduce the risk of the atmospheric flight system, under the NASA Langley Planetary Airplane Risk Reduction Project. The concept was then proposed to the Mars Scout program in 2006 for a 2011 launch opportunity. This paper summarizes the design and development of the ARES airplane propulsion subsystem beginning with the inception of the ARES project in 2002 through the submittal of the Mars Scout proposal in July 2006.

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20090013211_2009012627.pdf

[Ben the Space Brit]

IIRC, Mars' atmosphere is about 1/100 the density of Earth's.  I would suppose that mean that the 'stall' velocity for aerodynamic lift on Mars is proportionately higher for any given lifting surface.  With this in mind, seeing the key word 'airplane' in place of 'blimp' rather surprises me.

[mlorrey]

IIRC, Mars' atmosphere is about 1/100 the density of Earth's.  I would suppose that mean that the 'stall' velocity for aerodynamic lift on Mars is proportionately higher for any given lifting surface.  With this in mind, seeing the key word 'airplane' in place of 'blimp' rather surprises me.

LOL it fits actually. With such a thin atmosphere, it is far more likely that ANY flying vehicle is going to be heavier than air, even if it does use hydrogen or helium to inflate structures.

[space_man]

Such a cool idea, I always imagined a "Planet Earth" style HD movie but of the martian surface from an airplane. Would be cool to see this airplane navigate the various dryed river banks on Mars.

[Antares]

If you have an AIAA chapter, you can get one of the main guys on Mars Airplane to come as a Distinguished Speaker.  Pretty interesting stuff.  I think the details, and all of the Distinguished Speakers, are on the AIAA web site.

[rdale]

    A trade study was performed at NASA Langley Research Center under the Planetary Airplane Risk Reduction (PARR) project (2004-2005) to examine the option of using multiple, smaller thrusters in place of a single large thruster on the Mars airplane concept with the goal to reduce overall cost, schedule, and technical risk. The 5-lbf (22N) thruster is a common reaction control thruster on many satellites. Thousands of these types of thrusters have been built and flown on numerous programs, including MILSTAR and Intelsat VI. This study has examined the use of three 22N thrusters for the Mars airplane propulsion system and compared the results to those of the baseline single thruster system.

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20090013835_2009012625.pdf

[jimvela]

600 km of flight at a cost of several hundred million dollars (minimum) is not a smart application of a mission opportunity, IMO. This concept is only slightly better than the completely silly mars-plane stunt talked about for the Wright Bros. centennial. I'd be far happier with the extended science return of a balloon-borne probe.

Hell with aerial mapping, send more MRO/HiRISE type missions for that. 

I'd rather see a rover deploy a subsurface explorer at one of the cave skylights like the one found on Arsia Mons.

http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00000984/

[Ben the Space Brit]

Personally, I would design a hydrogen blimp carrying the instrument package.  Propulsion would be electric ducted fans powered by light-weight solar cells that cover the upper surface of the lift envelope.

On that note, I don't understand why we aren't fielding more MER-class rover missions. It's a proven design for both the lander and the rover.

I certainly think that, once the MERs had been operational for more than a year, funding should have been made available to build further units.  An MER 'plague' (perhaps more than a half-dozen operational units) could have been sent to the most interesting regions on the Martian surface.

Building that @#$% battleship MSL is a travesty.

MSL has a place, but only as a follow-up.  The earlier MERs could be used as a cheaper 'first wave' probe with the MSL only being sent to what orbital reconnaissance and the MERs had determined to e the highest-value region in terms of its objectives.

[deltaV]

A Mars airplane that could stay aloft indefinitely would be really cool.

One way to achieve indefinite flight would be a solar-powered airplane similar to NASA's Helios. (Mars atmospheric density at "sea level" is similar to Earth's at Helios's record altitude of 97 kft.) The Helios design seems amenable to folding, which it would need to fit in a payload fairing. An airplane cleans its solar panel whenever it flies so the dust that's the nemesis of rover solar panels wouldn't be an issue.

It's hard to have significant payload (or even non-negative payload) if you want to fly continuously day and night so it's probably better to land periodically to recharge. Landing would also allow for science activities requiring contact with the ground. Helios is quite slow (about 20 knots) but even so traditional landing gear would be problematic (the runway has rocks on it).

An alternative to traditional wheeled landing gear would be takeoff and landing using jets of compressed CO2. You'd want to insulate the tanks holding the compressed CO2 so the heat added by the compression process would be saved. The ISP of compressed CO2 is lousy (1 km/s or so) but with a delta-vee budget of only a few dozen m/s the ISP doesn't matter. These tanks would be recharged while on the ground (at the same time as the batteries). An aircraft as flexible as Helios was could shape itself to whatever terrain it wants to land on.

Edit: such an airplane could also be used for electricity generation and storage at a Mars base.

Edit: if the landing jets kick up dust that lands on the solar panels that could be a problem.

[CameronD]

Just curious: Does anyone know what happened to various NASA-funded plans for some form of aerial survey platform for deployment on Mars - in either Airplane or Blimp format??

The ARES project seemed to be quite advanced a while back:
http://marsairplane.larc.nasa.gov/index.html
despite the challenges:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=16633.0

It seems to me that something will need to be worked out eventually if humans are ever to make much progress if/when we get there...

[GregA]

Good question, I'm interested in this also.

I always thought the Entomopter was an interesting concept too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entomopter

[sghill]

I liked the balloon-with-tether aerobot concepts myself.  The "double" balloon is buoyant enough to float during the day because of solar heating, but at night it sinks to the ground, and a long tether or tail containing science packages does its work while the balloon is on the ground.  The next day, it rises up again and gets blown to a new location.  Every night a new area would get sampled, and in this fashion direct sampling of huge sample areas could take place over months or years.  It'd be the equivalent of sending thousands of mars landers to different locations on the planet.  Plus, it'd be relatively cheap for the area covered due to the passive design- it goes where the wind blows.

Archimedes is an interesting balloon explorer that was planned to launch in 2009 and then for 2018.  does anyone know what happened to it?

[Razvan]

I liked the balloon-with-tether aerobot concepts myself.  The "double" balloon is buoyant enough to float during the day because of solar heating, but at night it sinks to the ground, and a long tether or tail containing science packages does its work while the balloon is on the ground.  The next day, it rises up again and gets blown to a new location.  Every night a new area would get sampled, and in this fashion direct sampling of huge sample areas could take place over months or years.  It'd be the equivalent of sending thousands of mars landers to different locations on the planet.  Plus, it'd be relatively cheap for the area covered due to the passive design- it goes where the wind blows.

Archimedes is an interesting balloon explorer that was planned to launch in 2009 and then for 2018.  does anyone know what happened to it?

Very interesting, indeed. Have thought to the strong winds effect on the balloon, especially at night when ballon may lay down onto the ground?

[IslandPlaya]

Mars Airplane! Great film!
Yes I am serious and don't call me Shirley.
 

[sghill]

Very interesting, indeed. Have thought to the strong winds effect on the balloon, especially at night when ballon may lay down onto the ground?

Mars winds are fast, but not "strong" like we think of it. The pressure is 1% of earth's so it exerts less force.  Think of running through water versus running along the ground.

On Earth at sea level, air pressure is 1.25kg/m3.  Wind Pressure per meter of surface area in a 10 m/sec breeze is .5*1.25*102= 62.5kg/m pressure= the mass of a person.

On Mars at surface level, air pressure is 0.02kg/m3. Wind Pressure per meter of surface area in a 10 m/sec breeze is .5*0.02*102= .1kg = 100 grams= the mass of 1 apple.

[JasonAW3]

Very interesting, indeed. Have thought to the strong winds effect on the balloon, especially at night when ballon may lay down onto the ground?

Mars winds are fast, but not "strong" like we think of it. The pressure is 1% of earth's so it exerts less force.  Think of running through water versus running along the ground.

On Earth at sea level, air pressure is 1.25kg/m3.  Wind Pressure per meter of surface area in a 10 m/sec breeze is .5*1.25*102= 62.5kg/m pressure= the mass of a person.

On Mars at surface level, air pressure is 0.02kg/m3. Wind Pressure per meter of surface area in a 10 m/sec breeze is .5*0.02*102= .1kg = 100 grams= the mass of 1 apple.

    And I cannot believe that I get riddiculed for the idea of modifying the Inflatable Supersonic Decellerator into a Lifting Body Assist system.  Such a thing would allow more accurate targeted landings along with better crossrange capibility, in case of problems.  Hey, if they could get the Inflatoplane to fly, a design like this could work too.

[JulesVerneATV]

The NASA Mars helicopter’s work is not done, it turns out

https://www.digitaltrends.com/space/nasa-mars-helicopter-work-not-done/