Quote from: Rei on 05/05/2016 08:51 pmQuote from: A_M_Swallow on 05/05/2016 07:14 pmFor simplicity a base will want to use the same fuel for its rockets and for generation of electricity. Various types of engines can work at these combustion temperatures but their heat exchangers and pipes will also need to take the pressure. Such equipment will need building and testing.Fuel... for the generation of electricity? : Solar panels only work during the day. The batteries needed to keep a base going during the night are enormous - possible on Mars but not at the Moon's equator. Carbon monoxide and liquid oxygen can be kept in tanks. ... A CO/LOX system may have to use a Stirling engine converter to generate the electricity.
Quote from: A_M_Swallow on 05/05/2016 07:14 pmFor simplicity a base will want to use the same fuel for its rockets and for generation of electricity. Various types of engines can work at these combustion temperatures but their heat exchangers and pipes will also need to take the pressure. Such equipment will need building and testing.Fuel... for the generation of electricity? :
For simplicity a base will want to use the same fuel for its rockets and for generation of electricity. Various types of engines can work at these combustion temperatures but their heat exchangers and pipes will also need to take the pressure. Such equipment will need building and testing.
Fuel cells are a possibility, but concerning combustion, I can't begin to imagine that they'd choose a system that throws out 2/3rds of the energy and involves extensive use of moving parts in a hostile environment as their energy storage means of choice.
Fuel cells for space applications are both a much higher TRL and significantly more efficient.Assuming, again, that batteries aren't used, and that the power isn't nuclear.
Quote from: Robotbeat on 10/15/2012 07:22 pmIf you're making oxygen from the Martian air, you're already making carbon monoxide by default. The question is whether or not you're going to do anything with it. So does the process that will be used to make oxygen in the MOXIE experiment planned for the Mars 2020 rover produce CO as a byproduct?
If you're making oxygen from the Martian air, you're already making carbon monoxide by default. The question is whether or not you're going to do anything with it.
{snip}Assuming, again, that batteries aren't used, and that the power isn't nuclear.What exactly was your link supposed to be about?
This applies double to rovers. In 2012 NASA tested running the MMSEV manned rover from a hydrogen fuel cell. A CO/LOX system may have to use a Stirling engine converter to generate the electricity.http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2013/eposter/3097.pdf
Yes, MOXIE produces both oxygen and carbon monoxide.
BTW, you butchered your quote tags, I wasn't the one who said the above.
For example the high ISP SSME ran at a mass ratio of 6:1, but full combustion to H2O is 8:1. Lowers combustion chamber temps with a still very respectable ISP..
There is a higher performance fuel you can make out of the Martian atmosphere. It's called Cyanogen. It is however very toxic to handle.
Now this idea I rather like. What would be the performance of that, exactly?
Also, for those interested in something a bit... spicier, theres always dicyanoacetylene.
I could be mistaken, but I don't think people are generally fond of their propellants being explosive Hehe
We will not be using nuclear on man sized rovers.
The MMSEV is a prototype manned rover. The quote shows it being powered by a fuel cell.
So now we're talking about rovers?Can we be clear about what is actually being discussed here before discussing it? First it was "a base will use chemicals to power itself". Then it was "a base will use chemicals for nightime power storage". Now it's " a rover will be driven by chemicals". It's hard to make statements when the topic keeps shifting.{snip}
Try running the numbers for 4-4.2km/s delta-v. Include the energy needed to electrolyze the propellant (if you want, assume 50% electrolysis efficiency across the board as a simplifying assumption, so multiply the fuel specific energy by 2).