Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-16 (Dragon SpX-16) : December 5, 2018 - DISCUSSION  (Read 247862 times)

Offline Orbiter

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2995
  • Florida
  • Liked: 1548
  • Likes Given: 1385
This is new -- looks like SpaceX will be doing a webcast for the CRS-16 rendezvous (maybe it'll just be a rehost of the NASA stream):

KSC Engineer, astronomer, rocket photographer.

Offline pb2000

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 671
  • Calgary, AB
  • Liked: 759
  • Likes Given: 237
I've managed to crop out the detail from inside the interstage. Check out what the arrow points to.

Also really cool to finally observe, the hydraulic actuators for the fins. You can clearly see 3 of them and how they are  arranged in a push/pull configuration.
I'll have to dig up the article where I got the picture to give it proper image credit, but we've already seen inside an interstage.

Edit: image credit https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-07-26/she-launches-spaceships-sells-rockets-and-deals-with-elon-musk
« Last Edit: 12/07/2018 05:03 pm by pb2000 »
Launches attended: Worldview-4 (Atlas V 401), Iridium NEXT Flight 1 (Falcon 9 FT), PAZ+Starlink (Falcon 9 FT), Arabsat-6A (Falcon Heavy)
Pilgrimaged to: Boca Chica (09/19 & 01/22)

Offline Mike_1179

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 670
  • New Jersey
  • Liked: 383
  • Likes Given: 87
I've managed to crop out the detail from inside the interstage. Check out what the arrow points to.


That is one of the supports for the "pusher" that extends out to guide the MVac (+ nozzle extension) out of the interstage during stage separation, right?

If its the same design as the one in the picture posted above (with Shotwell in front of it) you see that support is attached to the top of the stage 1 tank. Wonder what made it buckle.
« Last Edit: 12/07/2018 05:03 pm by Mike_1179 »

Online Johnnyhinbos

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3863
  • Boston, MA
  • Liked: 8095
  • Likes Given: 943
Based on radio chatter I was thinking that they were going to haul the booster out upside down by the hold downs. However there was just mention of needing the divers to put in a "belly pan", which has eluded me...
John Hanzl. Author, action / adventure www.johnhanzl.com

Offline pb2000

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 671
  • Calgary, AB
  • Liked: 759
  • Likes Given: 237
If its the same design as the one in the picture posted above (with Shotwell in front of it) you see that support is attached to the top of the stage 1 tank. Wonder what made it buckle.
Probably the missing part of the interstage was pushed into it.
Launches attended: Worldview-4 (Atlas V 401), Iridium NEXT Flight 1 (Falcon 9 FT), PAZ+Starlink (Falcon 9 FT), Arabsat-6A (Falcon Heavy)
Pilgrimaged to: Boca Chica (09/19 & 01/22)

Offline vanoord

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 693
  • Liked: 450
  • Likes Given: 106
They can probably strip it down to bare metal tanks and octaweb, rebuild it with new electronics, engines, and pneumatics etc, and still be cheaper than a new one.

Given the potential for the tanks to have been strained in unusual ways, I don't see a future for them other than being dismantled for inspection.

Even if used for a SpaceX test flight, there's still a risk to the pad if they try to fly it again - unless it's shipped to MacGregor and used to see if they can take off with legs folded down... now there's an idea!  ;D

Offline webdan

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 235
  • Clearwater, FL
  • Liked: 252
  • Likes Given: 272
I've managed to crop out the detail from inside the interstage. Check out what the arrow points to.

Also really cool to finally observe, the hydraulic actuators for the fins. You can clearly see 3 of them and how they are  arranged in a push/pull configuration.
I'll have to dig up the article where I got the picture to give it proper image credit, but we've already seen inside an interstage.

Edit: image credit https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-07-26/she-launches-spaceships-sells-rockets-and-deals-with-elon-musk

Ah yes, missed that picture, thanks for sharing. Notice that the fin arms aren't attached yet. From that perspective you can plainly see how flat those arms are. Also someone is being crushed by the rocket :)

Offline Joffan

If its the same design as the one in the picture posted above (with Shotwell in front of it) you see that support is attached to the top of the stage 1 tank. Wonder what made it buckle.
Probably the missing part of the interstage was pushed into it.
Yes, I'm sure the flap went in first before it was dragged to its current out position. I'm not sure there's anything large part missing; we'll see today or tomorrow I guess.
Getting through max-Q for humanity becoming fully spacefaring

Offline RoboGoofers

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1006
  • NJ
  • Liked: 871
  • Likes Given: 980
Why didn't it rupture and blow up when it tipped over? From the blooper reel, it looks like the first stage blew up on all previous failed landings (even ones in the water) when it tipped over.

Forgive me if this has already been asked and answered, but I looked back through two days of posts and didn't see it.

the sea state probably has a lot to do with it.
I'd say that's the least likely factor to save the stage. I'd say the stage came in close enough to vertical that it went in fairly deep and could start its topple slowly. It may even have been helped by the fact that it had just rotated past vertical, so was slightly "pre-toppled".

Alternative non-serious hypothesis: the stage has to be spinning to survive.

i mean if it falls across a swell, like a 'backbreaker' move in wrestling.

Offline Slarty1080

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2740
  • UK
  • Liked: 1871
  • Likes Given: 814
Is there any information as to what caused this recovery failure?
My optimistic hope is that it will become cool to really think about things... rather than just doing reactive bullsh*t based on no knowledge (Brian Cox)

Offline ellindsey

  • Member
  • Posts: 66
  • New Jersey
  • Liked: 54
  • Likes Given: 10
Is there any information as to what caused this recovery failure?
Hydraulic pump motor stalled.  Which caused the grid fins to all lock in place immobile during the descent process.  The rocket was unable to navigate to the landing site, and picked up a significant spin during descent.

What caused the pump motor to stall is yet to be determined, they'll probably have to get it on land and take it apart to tell.

Offline HVM

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 748
  • Finland
  • Liked: 1202
  • Likes Given: 594
Is there any information as to what caused this recovery failure?
Hydraulic pump motor stalled.  Which caused the grid fins to all lock in place immobile during the descent process.  The rocket was unable to navigate to the landing site, and picked up a significant spin during descent.

What caused the pump motor to stall is yet to be determined, they'll probably have to get it on land and take it apart to tell.

"A leading cause of many hydraulic pump failures is hydraulic fluid contamination". In freezing condition it can be water. Maybe SpX tell us, maybe not. It's SpX internal investigation, or with NASA?

Offline deruch

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2422
  • California
  • Liked: 2006
  • Likes Given: 5634
Why didn't it rupture and blow up when it tipped over? From the blooper reel, it looks like the first stage blew up on all previous failed landings (even ones in the water) when it tipped over.

Forgive me if this has already been asked and answered, but I looked back through two days of posts and didn't see it.

Seems to actually be closer to 50/50 for soft touchdowns in the water living past tipping over.  We know from the video recovery effort that CRS-3 survived toppling.  So did GovSat-1/SES-16 (the one that got used for target practice).  I seem to recall another instance where Elon talked about sending out recovery vessels to try to pick up a soft landed core in the water which survived toppling, but that it sank before they could get to it possibly due to heavy weather/waves (maybe CRS-4?). 
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

Offline Barrie

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 474
  • Planets are a waste of space
  • Liked: 242
  • Likes Given: 3815
  It's SpX internal investigation, or with NASA?

As booster recovery isn't a NASA requirement, I assume it is a purely SpaceX investigation

Offline kevinof

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1594
  • Somewhere on the boat
  • Liked: 1869
  • Likes Given: 1262
Presume it's only SpaceX involved as Nasa have nothing to do with the landing. I also wouldn't call it an "investigation" as that sounds very formal. They will take the pump apart, find the fault and make a change to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Is there any information as to what caused this recovery failure?
Hydraulic pump motor stalled.  Which caused the grid fins to all lock in place immobile during the descent process.  The rocket was unable to navigate to the landing site, and picked up a significant spin during descent.

What caused the pump motor to stall is yet to be determined, they'll probably have to get it on land and take it apart to tell.

"A leading cause of many hydraulic pump failures is hydraulic fluid contamination". In freezing condition it can be water. Maybe SpX tell us, maybe not. It's SpX internal investigation, or with NASA?

Offline CorvusCorax

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1860
  • Germany
  • Liked: 4009
  • Likes Given: 2738
To pull it out of the water by crane they need attachment points both at bottom and top. Bottom.is obvious: hold down clamp latches.
top would usually go on that interstage crane adapter. Thats not an option, but the grid fin attachment mounts should be able to take the load, too. It might make sense to remove the grid fins first and attach some hooks to the mounts instead, them run a cable or sling through for the crane.

If they rotate the damaged part to the top, then the stage should be able to rest in the bottom half cradle of the transporter truck around the intact half of the interstage.

Not very secure, but its not that far from pier to their hangar, is it?

Offline Rocket Science

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10586
  • NASA Educator Astronaut Candidate Applicant 2002
  • Liked: 4548
  • Likes Given: 13523
I don't see any reason the could not lift around the grid-fin mount area, it is robust to take the aero loads there from them. Remove them for safe keeping and install lift pins in place...
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator

Offline MechE31

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 156
  • MELBOURNE, FL
  • Liked: 284
  • Likes Given: 1
Remember that during processing, the first stage is lifted at various stages of build flow, perhaps without an interstage.

Offline edkyle99

  • Expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15391
    • Space Launch Report
  • Liked: 8565
  • Likes Given: 1356
Long ago, SpaceX lifted the Falcon 9 proto-stage like this.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline guckyfan

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7438
  • Germany
  • Liked: 2332
  • Likes Given: 2891
I don't see any reason the could not lift around the grid-fin mount area, it is robust to take the aero loads there from them. Remove them for safe keeping and install lift pins in place...

The interstage is damaged. I would not want to lift the stage that way.

Tags: CRS-16 
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
1