Author Topic: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure  (Read 45285 times)

Offline MKremer

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #60 on: 07/27/2006 10:36 pm »
So, if that was the case, they'll need to discover whether it was a software error, or hardware failure?

Offline Cretan126

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #61 on: 07/28/2006 04:11 pm »
Quote
Jim - 27/7/2006  4:01 PM
I am talking spacelaunches, so not MM or PK and not derived.  Converted ICBM is one pulled from the hole.  Atlas E&F were the only ones that fit this.  The Titan 23G had T-II tanks taken apart, refurbed, swapped and reassembled.  So potentially, a T-23G could have tanks from 4 different vehicles.  That's why they cost so much.  Lessons learned from the Altas E&F.

BTW Coriolis was USAF, Quikscat was NASA and so was NOAA.

Jim,

Given your response, I think we agree.  Adapting all of the guidance, software, payload interfaces, etc. that was specifically designed for the ICBM application to make it a space launch vehicle is not an easy thing.  My interpretation was more aligned with Aero's response and was focused on the solid rocket motors.  They have been proven reliable over many launches and have already been paid for by the U.S. taxpayers, so we might as well use them for providing lower cost launches.

C

Offline anik

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #62 on: 07/28/2006 06:35 pm »
Extraction from the press-release of RSC Energiya - http://www.energia.ru/english/energia/news/news-2006/press_release-07-27.html

"BelKA spacecraft had been insured. The Belorussian side expressed a wish to order again the identical satellite at RSC Energia. There is a possibility of its repeated launch within next 1.5 years."

Offline Jim

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #63 on: 07/28/2006 07:09 pm »
Quote
Cretan126 - 28/7/2006  11:58 AM
Jim,

Given your response, I think we agree.  Adapting all of the guidance, software, payload interfaces, etc. that was specifically designed for the ICBM application to make it a space launch vehicle is not an easy thing.  My interpretation was more aligned with Aero's response and was focused on the solid rocket motors.  They have been proven reliable over many launches and have already been paid for by the U.S. taxpayers, so we might as well use them for providing lower cost launches.
C


I guess I should have caveated my statement by saying liquid ICBM's.   I agree with the solids.  You can mix, match and trade with your friends to get a vehicle that meets your requirements.


Offline edkyle99

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #64 on: 07/30/2006 05:36 pm »
Quote
anik - 27/7/2006  5:15 PM

Rumour from Novosti kosmonavtiki forum... The current most probable reason of yesterday's failure of Dnepr rocket is abnormal work of one of four 15L423 hydrodrives of propulsion system of first stage... The complex of command devices has given out the command for switching off the propulsion system of first stage on 73.89 seconds after liftoff after Dnepr rocket has exceeded a maximum yaw deviation...

Here's a report laying the blame on Ukraine even before the investigation has begun!

From http://en.rian.ru/russia/20060730/52028942.html

"Now a commission led by academician Nikolai Anfimov from the Russian Academy of Sciences is studying together with Ukrainian and Belarusian colleagues several versions of the crash," Igor Panarin said. "All of the versions are linked, this way or another, with the work of the rocket's equipment produced at Ukrainian enterprises."

Weren't the engines made in Russia?

 - Ed Kyle

Offline anik

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #65 on: 07/30/2006 06:43 pm »
Quote
edkyle99 - 30/7/2006  9:23 PM

Weren't the engines made in Russia?

Yes, engines for Dnepr rocket were made in Russia in 1980th years... RD-264 (see the image below from Novosti kosmonavtiki website) on the first stage was produced at Glushko NPO Energomash (Khimki, near Moscow), RD-0229 and RD-0230 on the second stage - at KBKhA (Voronezh)...

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #66 on: 07/31/2006 03:46 pm »
I've run into some conflicting information about whether Dnepr uses R-36M2 (newest type) or R-36MU series (slightly older type) missiles.  Are there any solid sources of info about this?

 - Ed Kyle

Offline Jester

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #67 on: 08/01/2006 02:17 pm »
Quote
edkyle99 - 31/7/2006  5:33 PM

I've run into some conflicting information about whether Dnepr uses R-36M2 (newest type) or R-36MU series (slightly older type) missiles.  Are there any solid sources of info about this?

 - Ed Kyle

As far as i'm aware its the R-36MU (aka R-36M UTTKh Improved Tactical and Technical Characteristics)

Industrial Code: 15A18

Offline Jester

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #68 on: 08/01/2006 03:03 pm »
Edit: sorry that statement above is WRONG ! I didn't post the complete story, hit submit too soon, here it is:


The R-36MU = R-36MUTTKh with Improved Tactical and Technical Characteristics was replaced by the R-36M2

A tactical-technical specification was issued on July 1979 for a fourth generation heavy ICBM to replace the R-36MUTTKh
The draft project was completed in June 1982 and featured uprated engines better resistant to nearby nuclear blasts
A formal decree authorising development of the entire missile was issued on 9 August 1983

Dnepr uses the approximately 150 R-36M2 ICBM's which were to be destroyed by 2007 under the START-2 treaty (Code: 15A18M2)


Offline jacqmans

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RE: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #69 on: 08/01/2006 04:25 pm »
http://www.roscosmos.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=1690

(translation below)

01-08-2006

On the elimination of the consequences of the emergency of rocket RS -20

The fall of rocket RS -20 occurred approximately in 150 kilometers south west of spaceport Baikonur in the desert locality. The nearest populated area - the settlement Of zhanakala is located in 35 kilometers to the northeast of the point of the fall of rocket. The funnel of rounded form was formed on the spot of the fall of rocket. On the edges of funnel as a result of the ejection of soil was formed the parapet by height to one-and-a-half it was meter. The fragments of rocket in the form of fragments by sizes, in essence, to 50 centimeters, were scattered at a distance to 150 it was meter from the place of the fall of rocket. The dimensions of funnel testify about the large explosive force of the samovosplamenivshikhsya components, which led to the combustion of the larger part of the propellant components.

The place of the fall of rocket was discovered by the morning on 28 July. Immediately after the detection of the place for emergency, the region of emergency was surrounded, and field laboratory with the specialists, who conducted the measurements of the concentration of harmful substances, was there delivered. The results of rapid analysis showed that the summit level of pollution by heptyl is in the center of funnel and composes 228 maximum permissible levels (PDU); with removal from the point of impact pollution level is reduced to 0,1 PDU at a distance of 50-150 it is meter. Carry ouied on 29 July in the stationary conditions sample test showed the presence of the pollution of tests from 228 to 0,1 PDU. On 29 July, together with the Kazakhstan side is carry ouied the sampling of soil in the impact area, and are also carry ouied the tests of soil and water in Zhanakala settlement. In the tests, undertaken in Zhanakala settlement, the propellant components are not discovered.

The analyses, executed by 29 and on 30 July, testify about a rapid decrease in pollution level, what occurs under the action of natural factors - as a result of the instability of heptyl to the solar radiation its decomposition during the evaporation occurs. Russian and Kazakhstan specialists develop measures for the selection of the optimum measures of the detoxication of soil. Unfortunately, in view of complexity and uniqueness of rocket-space technology, in all participating countries of mastery of outer space periodically occur the emergencies of carrier rockets. By roskosmosom and by subordinate enterprises in the field in the long period is carried out work on the modernization of the park of carrier rockets for the purpose of an increase in their reliability, minimization of damage to ecology with the emergency outcome. This work will be continued, also, subsequently. Roskosmos expressed its regret and brought apologies to Kazakhstan side and customers of launching in connection with the emergency of carrier rocket RS -20. Roskosmos will compulsorily pay off allowance for damage, substituted to the earth and the steppe vegetation of republic Kazakhstan from the emergency of rocket RS -20 as this provided by international standards and bilateral agreements.
Jacques :-)

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #70 on: 08/01/2006 06:38 pm »
Quote
Jester - 1/8/2006  9:50 AM

Edit: sorry that statement above is WRONG ! I didn't post the complete story, hit submit too soon, here it is:


The R-36MU = R-36MUTTKh with Improved Tactical and Technical Characteristics was replaced by the R-36M2

A tactical-technical specification was issued on July 1979 for a fourth generation heavy ICBM to replace the R-36MUTTKh
The draft project was completed in June 1982 and featured uprated engines better resistant to nearby nuclear blasts
A formal decree authorising development of the entire missile was issued on 9 August 1983

Dnepr uses the approximately 150 R-36M2 ICBM's which were to be destroyed by 2007 under the START-2 treaty (Code: 15A18M2)


www.astronautix.com says that Dnepr uses the R-36M2, but

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/r36muttkh.html

says:
"In 2005, Nikolay Solovtsov, the commander of the Strategic Rocket Forces, said that R-36 MUTTKh, would remain in service until 2007-2009. In the meantime, some of R-36M UTTKh rockets would be converted in space vehicles within the Dnepr program."

The following site also says that Dnepr uses R-36MU series missiles.
http://russianforces.org/blog/2006/07/everything_has_limits.shtml

My understanding is that the R-36MU missiles are being phased out by 2009, but that the R-36M2 missiles are expected to remain active until 2016-2020.  As a result, it would make sense to me that R-36MU missiles are being flown as Dneprs, allowing Russia to preserve the R-36M2 missiles for active duty.

But I'm not sure.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline jacqmans

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RE: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #71 on: 08/02/2006 01:27 pm »
http://www.roscosmos.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=1692

(Translation below)

02.08.2006

about the session of interdepartmental commission for the development of the reasons for the emergency starting of rocket RS -20 for determining the specific reason for the refusal of rocket By roskosmosom, the Defense Ministry of Russia formed "interdepartmental commission for the development of the reasons for the emergency starting of rocket RS -20 with the group KA, 26 July 2006" under the management of the Director-General OF FGUP "TSNII - CENTRAL SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH INSTITUTE of machine building" the academician OF RAN [RUSSIAN ACADEMY OF SCIENCE] of Nikolai apollonovich's Anfimova. Into the composition of commission enter representatives Of roskosmosa, space troops, RVSN, GKB "southern", INTERNATIONAL WHALING COMMISSION Of "kosmotras" and a number of other interested structures. On 4 August takes place session of the commission in On 4 August takes place session of the commission This commission must present its conclusion until 28 August, 2006.
Jacques :-)

Offline sammie

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #72 on: 08/04/2006 10:27 am »
http://www.inform.kz/showarticle.php?lang=eng&id=143749

MOSCOW. August 4, 2006. KAZINFORM - Russia will pay compensation to Kazakhstan for damage caused by the crash of the space rocket Dnepr after a size of it is assessed, the deputy chief of the Federal Space Agency (Roskosmos), Viktor Ramishevsky, said."We shall pay compensation for damage to ecology from the crash of the carrier rocket Dnepr by all means, as is stipulated by international norms and bilateral accords," he said.

Ramishevsky called "gag and an attempt to bring irritation into the relations with Kazakhstan" the reports by some of Russian mass media alleging that Russia would not pay for damage to soil and steppe vegetation caused by the fall of the Dnepr rocket.

There is no environmental disaster in the area of the fall, Ramishevsky said.

He said that "fuel components have not been found in water samples in the residential area Zhanakala, 35 kilometres south of which the carrier rocket fell".

"In the area of the explosion of the rocket and of dispersion of itsfragments, ground contamination above a maximum permissible level (MPL) has been revealed at a distance not more than 150 meters from the centre of a crater that formed as a result of the fall and explosion of the rocket. The concentration of rocket fuel in ground samples obtained from
the crater is not above 228 MPL," Roskosmos said in an official release, KAZINFORM cites Itar-Tass.

Experts noted a "tendency of fuel concentration reduction in the crater, which is explained by good evaporability of heptil in a hot weather and its low resistance to solar radiation".

An air temperature in the Zhanala area is 35 decrees centigrade tehse days.

The 15 meter deep crater 50 meters in diameter indicates a great force of the explosion of fuel components, Roskosmos said.

It said that work would be continued in the coming days to fence contour off the crater, with the monitoring of soil contamination two meters beneath the deepest part of the crater.

Russian and Kazakh specialists are considering a technique of cleaning the heptil-contaminated soil using kerosene burnout or detoxification with special agents, Ramishevsky said.

The Dnepr rocket carrying 18 satellites crashed shortly after the launch from the Baikonur cosmodrome last Thursday.

According to Roskosmos, it had 86,430 kilogrammes of fuel, including 23,990 kilogrammes of toxic heptil and 62, 438 kilogrammes of an oxidiser, nitrogen tetroxide.

The rocket's fragments were found 35 kilometres from Zhanakaly in an area located 150 kilometres from Baikonur.
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Offline edkyle99

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure Cause
« Reply #73 on: 08/12/2006 07:21 pm »
"Overheated combustion chamber caused Dnepr crash

11.08.2006, 15.15

ASTANA, August 11 (Itar-Tass) - An overheated combustion chamber caused emergency shutdown of a Dnepr engine and the subsequent crash of the booster rocket, according to a preliminary version of the accident, Director of Russia's Roskosmos Federal Space Agency Anatoly Perminov said here on Friday.

It is this malfunction that might have caused the failure of the engine of the nozzle rotator mechanism. However, "there can be numerous reasons," Perminov added."


http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=10699502&PageNum=0

 - Ed Kyle

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure Cause
« Reply #74 on: 08/17/2006 01:40 pm »
Quote
edkyle99 - 12/8/2006  2:08 PM

"Overheated combustion chamber caused Dnepr crash

11.08.2006, 15.15

ASTANA, August 11 (Itar-Tass) - An overheated combustion chamber caused emergency shutdown of a Dnepr engine and the subsequent crash of the booster rocket, according to a preliminary version of the accident, Director of Russia's Roskosmos Federal Space Agency Anatoly Perminov said here on Friday.

It is this malfunction that might have caused the failure of the engine of the nozzle rotator mechanism. However, "there can be numerous reasons," Perminov added."


http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=10699502&PageNum=0

 - Ed Kyle

Now, less than two weeks later, Itar Tass provides a different explanation!

http://www.tass.ru/eng/level2.html?NewsID=10711864&PageNum=0

"MOSCOW, August 16 (Itar-Tass) - The crash of the Dnepr booster rocket that blasted off from the Baikonur
cosmodrome on July 26, occurred because of "brief operation failure of a hydraulic pumping drive on one
of the combustion chambers of the first stage engine"...

 - Ed Kyle

Offline JoLTiy

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RE: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #75 on: 08/17/2006 01:50 pm »
On 11 August are of this year found five points of impact in the fragments of rocket “Dnepr”. In these places are undertaken the tests of soil, which are transmitted for the study by Kazakhstan and Russian scientist. To see fresh photos is possible http://kosmodrombaikonur.ru/index.php/news/full_news/poiskovie_raboti_na_meste_padeniya_raketi_nositelya_dnepr_idut_k_zaversheni/

Offline Chris Bergin

RE: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #76 on: 08/17/2006 03:54 pm »
Thanks and welcome to the site :)
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Offline anik

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #77 on: 08/18/2006 03:23 am »
Quote
anik - 28/7/2006  10:22 PM

Extraction from the press-release of RSC Energiya - http://www.energia.ru/english/energia/news/news-2006/press_release-07-27.html

"BelKA spacecraft had been insured. The Belorussian side expressed a wish to order again the identical satellite at RSC Energia. There is a possibility of its repeated launch within next 1.5 years."

Belarus To Announce Tender For New National Satellite
http://www.spacemart.com/reports/Belarus_To_Announce_Tender_For_New_National_Satellite_999.html

Offline publiusr

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #78 on: 08/18/2006 10:09 pm »
Nice links.

Offline SpacemanSpiff

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #79 on: 09/27/2006 06:23 pm »
Failure Investigation Report has been issued:

http://www.kosmotras.ru/

See the 'News' section.

Looks like Dnepr launches are on hold while they check for the problem they cite in the article. Does anyone know what they are talking about? Sounds like either a wiring problem (short circuit) or an avionics control problem...

Cheers,
SS

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