Author Topic: SpaceX Cape SLC-37 Starship launch/landing facilities  (Read 81066 times)

Online catdlr

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It has begun

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Proposed Action: Space Launch Complex (SLC)-37 at CCSFS
SpaceX would modify, reuse, or demolish the existing SLC-37 infrastructure to support Starship-Super Heavy launch and landing operations.

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PURPOSE OF THE PROPOSED ACTION
The purpose of the Action is to advance U.S. space capabilities and provide launch and landing infrastructure in furtherance of U.S. policy to ensure capabilities necessary to launch and insert DAF payloads into space (10 U.S.C. Section 2273, “Policy regarding assured access to space: national security payloads”).

NEED FOR THE PROPOSED ACTION
The need for the Action is to ensure DAF Assured Access to Space without compromising current launch capabilities and fulfill (in part) the U.S. Congress’s grant of authority to the Secretary of Defense, pursuant to 10 U.S.C. Section 2276(a), “Commercial space launch cooperation,” that the Secretary of Defense is permitted to take action to:

Maximize the use of the U.S. Department of Defense (DOD) space transportation infrastructure by the private sector in the U.S.
Maximize the effectiveness and efficiency of the space transportation infrastructure of the DOD.
Reduce the cost of services provided by the DOD related to space transportation infrastructure at launch support facilities and space recovery support facilities.
Encourage commercial space activities by enabling investment by covered entities in the space transportation infrastructure of the DOD.
Foster cooperation between the DOD and covered entities.

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ABOUT THE PROJECT
The U.S. Department of the Air Force (DAF) is preparing an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) to assess the potential environmental impacts of this project. The National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) requires federal agencies to assess the anticipated environmental impacts of their proposed actions, disclose their findings to the public, and solicit public input on their proposals. The EIS will:

Describe the affected environment

Evaluate potential impacts from the proposed action and alternatives

Propose mitigation to avoid, minimize, or reduce the potential for adverse impacts


SOURCE WEB SITE (NO DOCUMENTS)

Annoiuncement - Main Home Page

Proposed Action

Public Meetings

Public Comments






Edit updates: Polish up link names, fixed link tags, and added addition extracts to quotes.
« Last Edit: 02/16/2024 01:58 pm by catdlr »
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Online catdlr

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Re: SpaceX Cape SLC-37 Starship launch/landing facilities
« Reply #1 on: 02/16/2024 01:47 pm »
Confirmed by Alex

https://twitter.com/Alexphysics13/status/1758462685690151151

https://twitter.com/Alexphysics13/status/1758462690467467356

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SpaceX is seeking to build a Starship Launch and Landing complex at the Cape Canaveral Space Force Station. The launch pad's environmental study process is already underway

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Under the proposed plan, SpaceX would take over Space Launch Complex 37 currently in use by ULA for the Delta IV Heavy rocket. This rocket has one launch left so after that, the pad will remain vacant.

An alternative to this is building a new launch complex called SLC-50
« Last Edit: 02/16/2024 01:50 pm by catdlr »
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Online catdlr

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Re: SpaceX Cape SLC-37 Starship launch/landing facilities
« Reply #2 on: 02/16/2024 02:08 pm »
https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1758480053166334294

Quote
Taking SLC-37 - which is not a surprise after the LC-49 plan never materialized - would be fascinating, given SpaceX has already entered a lease agreement for the other former Delta pad at SLC-6 in California.
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Offline edzieba

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Re: SpaceX Cape SLC-37 Starship launch/landing facilities
« Reply #3 on: 02/16/2024 02:16 pm »
Quote
Proposed Action: Space Launch Complex (SLC)-37 at CCSFS
SpaceX would modify, reuse, or demolish the existing SLC-37 infrastructure to support Starship-Super Heavy launch and landing operations.

Alternative 1: SLC-50 at CCSFS
SpaceX would construct infrastructure to support Starship-Super Heavy launch and landing operations on a site that is currently undeveloped. SLC-50 would become a new SLC between SLC-40 and SLC-37.
Since it will be a few months before an EIS and a proper site map, here's the proposed primary and alternative locations.

Offline Craigles

I'm confused as to who publishes and updates https://spaceforcestarshipeis.com/ .
For example, is this website from the Space Force, SpaceX, a journalist, or an environmental group, etc?
I'd rather be here now

Offline Herb Schaltegger

I'm confused as to who publishes and updates https://spaceforcestarshipeis.com/ .
For example, is this website from the Space Force, SpaceX, a journalist, or an environmental group, etc?

I asked the same thing on FB and Alex didn't answer. It honestly seems like some kind of attempt to look official with the use of a USAF logo, but the domain name refers to "Space Force," yet it's not a .gov or .mil site. I did a whois lookup and it dead-ended with some domain name anonymization/proxy company in Arizona.
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Online catdlr

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Re: SpaceX Cape SLC-37 Starship launch/landing facilities
« Reply #6 on: 02/16/2024 08:59 pm »
I'm confused as to who publishes and updates https://spaceforcestarshipeis.com/ .
For example, is this website from the Space Force, SpaceX, a journalist, or an environmental group, etc?

try contacting them here:  [email protected]

snail mail:  U.S. Postal Mail to: CCSFS Starship EIS c/o Jacobs, 5401 W. Kennedy Blvd #300, Tampa, Florida 33609

call 813 954 5608
VIRTUAL MEETING LINK COMING SOON
A virtual meeting will be available March 12 through March 22, 2024. It will feature a narrated slideshow showcasing the exhibit boards presented during the in-person meetings.

VIRTUAL Meeting
DATE Tuesday, March 12, 2024
TIME 6:00 p.m.

WHO WE ARE
Our website address is: https://spaceforcestarshipeis.com.

COMMENTS
When visitors leave comments on the site we collect the data shown in the comments form. All comments along with names will become part of the public record.

MEDIA
If you upload images to the website, you should avoid uploading images with embedded location data (EXIF GPS) included. Visitors to the website can download and extract any location data from images on the website.
« Last Edit: 02/16/2024 09:07 pm by catdlr »
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Offline Herb Schaltegger

To update my earlier post, Emre Kelly replied to my question on FB and confirmed the site is legit. Good to know.
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Offline EL_DIABLO

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Re: SpaceX Cape SLC-37 Starship launch/landing facilities
« Reply #8 on: 02/17/2024 08:32 pm »
They should build it on SLC-48. Going to take forever for the SPMTs to get to SLC-37.

Offline edzieba

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Re: SpaceX Cape SLC-37 Starship launch/landing facilities
« Reply #9 on: 02/17/2024 09:38 pm »
They should build it on SLC-48. Going to take forever for the SPMTs to get to SLC-37.
That's on KSC land, which misses the purpose of having a launch site in CCSFS.

Space News article on this. Also the fact that the DOD/Space Force is heading this up feeds into all of the interest in Starship from the military for future purposes. Will see how this plays into NSSL Phase 3, if it does at all.

https://spacenews.com/space-force-to-study-cape-canaveral-launch-sites-for-starship/[Feb 17]

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WASHINGTON — The U.S. Space Force is preparing to kick off environmental studies that could lead to SpaceX Starship launches from either the Cape Canaveral facility used by the Delta 4 or a new complex.


Offline Herb Schaltegger

Space News article on this. Also the fact that the DOD/Space Force is heading this up feeds into all of the interest in Starship from the military for future purposes. Will see how this plays into NSSL Phase 3, if it does at all.


Yeah, but ... the reality is that this is, in essence, the Starship/SH version of SLC-40. Space Force is taking the lead in this because the land is on CCSFS. Sure, DOD will find plenty of uses for Starship-sized payloads eventually. But it'll be a good while (years) before Starship/SH qualifies for NatSec payloads. There aren't even that many that require SH (and those fly just fine from the civilian side at LC-39A).
« Last Edit: 02/18/2024 12:29 am by Herb Schaltegger »
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Offline DanClemmensen

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Re: SpaceX Cape SLC-37 Starship launch/landing facilities
« Reply #12 on: 02/18/2024 12:57 am »
Space News article on this. Also the fact that the DOD/Space Force is heading this up feeds into all of the interest in Starship from the military for future purposes. Will see how this plays into NSSL Phase 3, if it does at all.


Yeah, but ... the reality is that this is, in essence, the Starship/SH version of SLC-40. Space Force is taking the lead in this because the land is on CCSFS. Sure, DOD will find plenty of uses for Starship-sized payloads eventually. But it'll be a good while (years) before Starship/SH qualifies for NatSec payloads. There aren't even that many that require SH (and those fly just fine from the civilian side at LC-39A).
To qualify for NSSL, Starship must first successfully fly two non-NSSL missions. I don't think that will take "years". An NSSL mission can use Starship even if it does not "require" Starship. Once a Starship mission is cheaper than an F9 mission, SpaceX will propose it.

Of course, we still do not know when SpaceX will actually develop a generic cargo version.

Offline Alexphysics

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Re: SpaceX Cape SLC-37 Starship launch/landing facilities
« Reply #13 on: 02/18/2024 01:06 am »
Space News article on this. Also the fact that the DOD/Space Force is heading this up feeds into all of the interest in Starship from the military for future purposes. Will see how this plays into NSSL Phase 3, if it does at all.

https://spacenews.com/space-force-to-study-cape-canaveral-launch-sites-for-starship/[Feb 17]

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WASHINGTON — The U.S. Space Force is preparing to kick off environmental studies that could lead to SpaceX Starship launches from either the Cape Canaveral facility used by the Delta 4 or a new complex.

The Space Force is the one doing it because they're the operators of that spaceport. They're involved in all environmental processes for all launchpads within CCSFS.

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: SpaceX Cape SLC-37 Starship launch/landing facilities
« Reply #14 on: 02/18/2024 02:39 am »
<snip>
... the reality is that this is, in essence, the Starship/SH version of SLC-40. Space Force is taking the lead in this because the land is on CCSFS. Sure, DOD will find plenty of uses for Starship-sized payloads eventually. But it'll be a good while (years) before Starship/SH qualifies for NatSec payloads. There aren't even that many that require SH (and those fly just fine from the civilian side at LC-39A).

The NRO/USSF don't want to be confined to a single Florida launch pad for the Starship, IMO. Especially a pad that is sharing the launch complex with another pad.

We had a chicken and egg issue regarding payloads requiring a Starship stack. AIUI there wasn't payloads of that size proposed previously due to the lack of launcher availability. Inversely there was no launcher with 100+ tonne payload capacity developed due to the lack of payloads.

If SpaceX offers the Starship to NRO/USSF at a lower price then the Falcon 9 after being qualified for NatSec payloads. The NRO/USSF will fly just about everything in the Starship regardless of the payload size. Since the price is the same for launching a SmallSat or something that is sized for the Vulcan Centaur long payload fairing.
 

Offline EL_DIABLO

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Re: SpaceX Cape SLC-37 Starship launch/landing facilities
« Reply #15 on: 02/18/2024 12:40 pm »
They should build it on SLC-48. Going to take forever for the SPMTs to get to SLC-37.
That's on KSC land, which misses the purpose of having a launch site in CCSFS.

What's the reasoning?

Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX Cape SLC-37 Starship launch/landing facilities
« Reply #16 on: 02/18/2024 01:49 pm »
Space News article on this. Also the fact that the DOD/Space Force is heading this up feeds into all of the interest in Starship from the military for future purposes. Will see how this plays into NSSL Phase 3, if it does at all.

https://spacenews.com/space-force-to-study-cape-canaveral-launch-sites-for-starship/[Feb 17]

Quote
WASHINGTON — The U.S. Space Force is preparing to kick off environmental studies that could lead to SpaceX Starship launches from either the Cape Canaveral facility used by the Delta 4 or a new complex.


No, not really.  They have to do this for any new launch vehicle flying from the Cape or Vandenberg.

Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX Cape SLC-37 Starship launch/landing facilities
« Reply #17 on: 02/18/2024 01:51 pm »
They should build it on SLC-48. Going to take forever for the SPMTs to get to SLC-37.
That's on KSC land, which misses the purpose of having a launch site in CCSFS.

What's the reasoning?

Also, too big for that area.

Offline Emmettvonbrown

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Re: SpaceX Cape SLC-37 Starship launch/landing facilities
« Reply #18 on: 02/18/2024 02:21 pm »
I have to ask... with SH-Starship being so much larger than even Delta IV Heavy, do they have to enlarge the safe areas in case of explosion ?
Does Starship needs a "safe explosion area" as large as LC-39s, since it is closer in size from a Saturn V than a Titan III or Delta IV Heavy ?



Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX Cape SLC-37 Starship launch/landing facilities
« Reply #19 on: 02/19/2024 01:19 pm »
I have to ask... with SH-Starship being so much larger than even Delta IV Heavy, do they have to enlarge the safe areas in case of explosion ?
Does Starship needs a "safe explosion area" as large as LC-39s, since it is closer in size from a Saturn V than a Titan III or Delta IV Heavy ?


Pad physical boundaries and acreage are not specifically safety related and certainly not to the size of the rocket.  Just a keep out zone for security.  It doubles as a clear zone for some local safety clears like lifting a loaded spacecraft on the rocket.  Pad spacing is based on the size of the vehicle.

BDA and LDA - Blast and Launch Danger Areas are not permanent physical boundaries.  But they are used during tanking and launch ops and security sets up road blocks per the defined area.  These are based on the propellant load of the vehicle

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