Quote from: Danderman on 10/11/2011 05:51 pmQuote from: Jim on 10/10/2011 11:39 pmQuote from: Danderman on 10/10/2011 11:34 pmQuote from: Jim on 10/10/2011 07:04 pmRegardless of what NASA did, it still wouldn't have mattered. There was no future for MirCorp. Just a bunch of sore losers trying to rewrite history and not make them look bad. Given that Space Adventures more or less executed the MirCorp business plan for space tourism, I don't agree. No, the flaw in the plan was the use of MirYou are suggesting that Energia could not have made money transporting space tourists to Mir at $20 million a pop? no, you have to include Mir O&M. That is where it is not the same as Space Adventures and there was no future.
Quote from: Jim on 10/10/2011 11:39 pmQuote from: Danderman on 10/10/2011 11:34 pmQuote from: Jim on 10/10/2011 07:04 pmRegardless of what NASA did, it still wouldn't have mattered. There was no future for MirCorp. Just a bunch of sore losers trying to rewrite history and not make them look bad. Given that Space Adventures more or less executed the MirCorp business plan for space tourism, I don't agree. No, the flaw in the plan was the use of MirYou are suggesting that Energia could not have made money transporting space tourists to Mir at $20 million a pop?
Quote from: Danderman on 10/10/2011 11:34 pmQuote from: Jim on 10/10/2011 07:04 pmRegardless of what NASA did, it still wouldn't have mattered. There was no future for MirCorp. Just a bunch of sore losers trying to rewrite history and not make them look bad. Given that Space Adventures more or less executed the MirCorp business plan for space tourism, I don't agree. No, the flaw in the plan was the use of Mir
Quote from: Jim on 10/10/2011 07:04 pmRegardless of what NASA did, it still wouldn't have mattered. There was no future for MirCorp. Just a bunch of sore losers trying to rewrite history and not make them look bad. Given that Space Adventures more or less executed the MirCorp business plan for space tourism, I don't agree.
Regardless of what NASA did, it still wouldn't have mattered. There was no future for MirCorp. Just a bunch of sore losers trying to rewrite history and not make them look bad.
There is a big difference between claiming that MirCorp failed because the chief was a crook, and stating that MirCorp failed because of their public statements.
Jim: Interestingly enough, Manber seems to share a similar attitude as you do. His work doesn't read as if he's rewriting history and he's distinctly pessimistic about MirCorp, both during and after the events described.Danderman: Thanks for the link, I'd recommend for other people to check the book out. Especially in light of the move towards commercial procurement services, which is really what Manber was pushing for a lot of the time. Did you know he owns Nanoracks? I only found out by visiting his website.The book states that NASA did a variety of shady acts to work against MirCorp/Dennis Tito, from pressuring foreign companies to not operate with them to sabotaging the State department export license process. Normally I wouldn't give such claims much credibility, but after hearing some horror stories from the DIRECT team about NASA I'm more unsure.
Quote from: Diagoras on 10/11/2011 08:24 pmI've read much the same thing in Greg Klerx book "Lost in Space"... Manber laid out much of the same issues regarding MirCorp and NASA doing everything they could to undercut and pressure companies any way they could to do NASA's bidding... and the VEHEMENT opposition and stunts Goldin pulled to try to prevent Tito's flight to ISS... Also covered some of the stuff that transpired with the man-tended orbital manufacturing facility or whatever (became SpaceLab?) as well (the book is on the shelf behind the Christmas tree so I can't get to it right now to look the stuff up and get the direct quotes). Basically Klerkx lays out that NASA did pretty much everything they could to torpedo commercial activities throughout at least Goldin's tenure at the very least... including torpedoing DC-X in favor of X-33 despite much better promise and a much better results for the funding levels on DC-X versus the "past the bleeding edge of technology" X-33, which ultimately proved it's undoing... As to the veracity of the claims... who knows... but it's certainly in more than this one book... Later! OL JR Sounds like another book to look up then. Had watched one of the House Committee meetings recently, and this point on the DC-X was brought up. Something in history that I wanted to confirm.
I've read much the same thing in Greg Klerx book "Lost in Space"... Manber laid out much of the same issues regarding MirCorp and NASA doing everything they could to undercut and pressure companies any way they could to do NASA's bidding... and the VEHEMENT opposition and stunts Goldin pulled to try to prevent Tito's flight to ISS... Also covered some of the stuff that transpired with the man-tended orbital manufacturing facility or whatever (became SpaceLab?) as well (the book is on the shelf behind the Christmas tree so I can't get to it right now to look the stuff up and get the direct quotes). Basically Klerkx lays out that NASA did pretty much everything they could to torpedo commercial activities throughout at least Goldin's tenure at the very least... including torpedoing DC-X in favor of X-33 despite much better promise and a much better results for the funding levels on DC-X versus the "past the bleeding edge of technology" X-33, which ultimately proved it's undoing... As to the veracity of the claims... who knows... but it's certainly in more than this one book... Later! OL JR
As to the veracity of the claims... who knows... but it's certainly in more than this one book...