Author Topic: China launchers Q&A  (Read 128442 times)

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #80 on: 11/11/2020 11:43 pm »
Taiyuan Satellite Launch Center (TSLC). New launch pad. For which missiles?
Next generation liquid likely CZ-6,7,8 families excluding initial version of CZ-6. They are planned to serve all SLC's with goal of dual pads at all. Existing pads might get converted for versions with no boosters or serve DF-ZF and other DF programmes.

Note there are many construction sites in the photos some of which looks like the beginnings of additional pads and infrastructure.
« Last Edit: 11/12/2020 04:08 pm by russianhalo117 »

Offline limen4

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Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #81 on: 11/12/2020 11:30 am »
The launch pad for the CZ-2E is no. 91 ?

https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_lau_det/cz-2fg.htm
You are right. It is No.91. My confusion because the pad is sometimes named after project 921, the launchpad was assigned to. No.92 also exists but 8km SW of No.91.

Offline Fmedici

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Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #82 on: 05/06/2021 10:26 pm »
Which is the logic behind the release of launch patchese for chinese launches? Why there are always patches if the launcher is for example a Long March 4C and there are never ones if the launcher if for example a Long March 3B or a 2C? I know it's a stupid question but I've been asking myself this since I noticed the weird pattern.

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Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #83 on: 05/19/2021 01:19 pm »
Which is the logic behind the release of launch patchese for chinese launches? Why there are always patches if the launcher is for example a Long March 4C and there are never ones if the launcher if for example a Long March 3B or a 2C? I know it's a stupid question but I've been asking myself this since I noticed the weird pattern.

There are 2 main CASC institutes that make rockets - CALT in Beijing/Tianjin and SAST in Shanghai. It's SAST (which makes the LM-2D, 4B and 4C in full and parts of others) that gives out these launch patches lately.
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Offline ZachS09

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Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #84 on: 06/03/2021 01:26 pm »
I always rely on Norbert Brgge's website when it comes to rocket specifications.
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Offline spaceflight101com

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Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #85 on: 06/20/2021 02:15 am »
If Im still able to post here, please let me apologize Ive deleted three of my own posts in this thread, because I do no-longer consider them factually sound.

The first was about the current specifications of the Long March YF-24-powered stage, the second posted the burn times of the two vehicles and the third was questioning the variants of the CZ-1 vehicle.

At least one of those posts included a draft that I do no-longer consider factually sound, so I decided to delete my posts.

Apologies for any confusion!

Offline Alexander Tli

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Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #86 on: 11/06/2021 11:56 am »
Does anyone have any information about this mechanism? Or the source of that image?

https://twitter.com/kedrskie/status/1364539209554350083?s=21

Offline Closer to Space

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Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #87 on: 12/10/2021 08:47 pm »
I was trying to get my Chinese launchers files sorted out, and I wanted to try to identify the serial numbers used by each of the FB-1 flights, and the corresponding pictures. After some research on Baidu, I found several posts that claim three serial numbers (2703X for the first orbital flight, 8701 and 1802 for the last two). I found this satisfactory, until I compared it with the photos I had. And of course, the serial numbers that these sites attributed to the Shijian-2 flights don't match to those that were on the rockets.

I tried to compile everything I could determine here on this small diagram. I hoped I would understand all that better, but it only made me question the few information I thought were right.

I also found a serial number on an FB-1 that I don't understand at all, "XCZ-1 1802". 1802 is a serial number I had found for the last orbital flight (which is not the case considering the JSSW on top), but what is XCZ-1? It's not a CZ-1, nor even the same missile... A provisional name before FB-1 is adopted? This would potentially be one of the first FB-1 flights?

So if someone understands anything about this, or has information about the launchers and their serial numbers, don't hesitate to reply, the early days of the Chinese space history are even more confusing than the current period...

Offline mikezang

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Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #88 on: 12/10/2021 09:41 pm »
I was trying to get my Chinese launchers files sorted out, and I wanted to try to identify the serial numbers used by each of the FB-1 flights, and the corresponding pictures. After some research on Baidu, I found several posts that claim three serial numbers (2703X for the first orbital flight, 8701 and 1802 for the last two). I found this satisfactory, until I compared it with the photos I had. And of course, the serial numbers that these sites attributed to the Shijian-2 flights don't match to those that were on the rockets.

I tried to compile everything I could determine here on this small diagram. I hoped I would understand all that better, but it only made me question the few information I thought were right.

I also found a serial number on an FB-1 that I don't understand at all, "XCZ-1 1802". 1802 is a serial number I had found for the last orbital flight (which is not the case considering the JSSW on top), but what is XCZ-1? It's not a CZ-1, nor even the same missile... A provisional name before FB-1 is adopted? This would potentially be one of the first FB-1 flights?

So if someone understands anything about this, or has information about the launchers and their serial numbers, don't hesitate to reply, the early days of the Chinese space history are even more confusing than the current period...
The XCZ is XinChangZheng means New Long March.
Quote
風暴一號火箭,又名新长征一号,由上海市第二機電工業局(今上海航天技术研究院)設計,布局与长征二号丙基本相同,1969年8月开始研制,於1972年8月首次進行遙測試驗火箭發射,取得了成功;在1973年9月18日和1974年7月12日的兩次發射科學實驗衛星時遭到失敗;1975年7月該火箭成功將中國第一顆質量超過1噸的衛星送上太空;1981年9月該火箭「一箭三星」成功發射实践二号、实践二号甲、实践二号乙,這是中國首次用一枚火箭同時發射3顆衛星。風暴一號火箭在中國酒泉衛星發射中心共進行了11次飛行,取得了7次成功,共發射了6顆低軌道衛星和成功地進行了兩次低彈道發射實驗。該火箭於1982年停用。在風暴一號的技術基礎上,發展了長征四號系列運載火箭。

Offline Liss

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Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #89 on: 04/08/2022 10:14 am »
After some research on Baidu, I found several posts that claim three serial numbers (2703X for the first orbital flight, 8701 and 1802 for the last two).

I also found a serial number on an FB-1 that I don't understand at all, "XCZ-1 1802". 1802 is a serial number I had found for the last orbital flight (which is not the case considering the JSSW on top), but what is XCZ-1?
1702Y = 1972.08.10
2703X = 1973.09.18
8701 = 1979.07.28
1802 = 1981.09.20
First two digits point to the year of production: 17 = 1971, 27 = 1972, 87 = 1978, 18 = 1981.
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline Rondaz

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Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #90 on: 05/24/2022 01:55 pm »
Long March 8R rocket landing gear deployment test.

https://twitter.com/SpaceNosey/status/1529060514541846529

Offline Rondaz

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Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #91 on: 12/13/2022 12:00 am »
My latest video which recaps all proposed versions of the Long March 9 so far, Check it out! And give us a thumbs-up, the animations took many hours to make..

https://twitter.com/DongFangHour/status/1592114202017402880


Offline Satori

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Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #92 on: 03/22/2023 03:42 pm »
I would like to have your opinion on this?

In another forum about China space flight, there was a post regarding the different launch sites at Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center.

The poster says the following...

There are a total of eight launchpads, with six being active and two retired:

– LC-90: for launching CZ-2F;
– LC-94: for launching CZ-2C/2D/4B/4C;
– LC-95A/B: for launching CZ-11, KZ-1A, KZ-11, KT-2, CERES-1, SQX-1, etc.;
– LC-96: for launching ZQ-2 rockets from the private launch company LandSpace;
– LC-130: for launching rockets from the private launch provider Zhongke;
– LC-138: for launching CZ-2/2C/2D;
– LC-5020: built for launching the now long-retired CZ-1 and China's first satellite (Dongfanghong-1).

138 and 5020 are now deactivated.

How should we write the designations of the launch complexes? I have been using, for example, LC43/94 for the launch pad for CZ-2C/2D/4B/4C. Do you think this is correct, or should we only use LC-94?

Using LC43/94 is similar with the notation used for Russian launches, like LC31/6 (LC31 PU-6) for the Soyuz launch pad at Baikonur.

Also, for years, I used the LC43/91 designation for the CZ-2F. Is this correct, or is LC-90 as the poster says?

Feedbacks are welcomed!

Mod edit corrected typo
« Last Edit: 03/22/2023 10:37 pm by russianhalo117 »

Offline limen4

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Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #93 on: 03/22/2023 08:35 pm »
Thank you Rui for your effort to clear the situation.
The numbering system of the various sites and buildings at JSLC is very confusing. But there seems to be a certain system.
The various sites at JSLC are numbered from 1 to at least 130. Sites 1 to 30 and some more are meanwhile well known. For instance, the launch site where the retired complexes 138 and 5020 are situated is called Site 2. Every building on every site has an individual number. For site 2 some numbers are known but unfortunately not for the launch towers. As far as I know the designations 138 and 5020 are not the corresponding numbers but have been the project names under which the towers have been built.
At site 94 (the one where CZ-2C/2D/4B/4C are launched now) the launch tower has the number 9401 and some other buildings/objects (for instance camera positions) have a number of the kind 94xx. The same way of numbering is also used at site 90, i.e the launch tower has very likely the number 9001 and so on.
Site 43 seems to be the site, which houses various assembly buildings near sites 90 and 94.
At site 95 additional characters were used for the various TEL positions.
To sum up - my proposal is to use your designations like LC-90, LC-94 further on. For LC-138 and LC-5020 I would prefer LC-2(138) and LC-2(5020).

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #94 on: 03/22/2023 10:30 pm »
I would like to have your opinion on this?

In another forum about China space flight, there was a post regarding the different launch sites at Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center.

The poster says the following...

There are a total of eight launchpads, with six being active and two retired:

– LC-90: for launching CZ-2F;
– LC-94: for launching CZ-2C/2D/4B/4C;
– LC-95A/B: for launching CZ-11, KZ-1A, KZ-11, KT-2, CERES-1, SQX-1, etc.;
– LC-96: for launching ZQ-2 rockets from the private launch company LandSpace;
– LC-130: for launching rockets from the private launch provider Zhongke;
– LC-138: for launching CZ-2/2C/2D;
– LC-5020: built for launching the now long-retired CZ-1 and China's first satellite (Dongfanghong-1).

130 and 5020 are now deactivated.

How should we write the designations of the launch complexes? I have been using, for example, LC43/94 for the launch pad for CZ-2C/2D/4B/4C. Do you think this is correct, or should we only use LC-94?

Using LC43/94 is similar with the notation used for Russian launches, like LC31/6 (LC31 PU-6) for the Soyuz launch pad at Baikonur.

Also, for years, I used the LC43/91 designation for the CZ-2F. Is this correct, or is LC-90 as the poster says?

Feedbacks are welcomed!
They adopted the Soviet designation system so historically legacy entries are correct. Only JSLC seems to follow this legacy system. The other launch sites seemed to use a more Western and US designation system the most recent example is LC-9A and upcoming LC-9B at TSLC. We know that all Orbital launchers are in a fenced area known as Site 43 given there used to be linked pictures of many different gate houses with an area sign labelled 43. NK forum still retains the legacy system in their schedules last time I looked several years ago. Also note that I see the alternating LC90 and LC91 every now and then and originates from when a second pad was planned when thaey thought about bringing CZ-2E and the CZ-3 family to JSLC. The ML Pedestal transfer railway has provisions for installing a switch but has straight rails installed indefinitely to date.
« Last Edit: 03/23/2023 01:22 am by russianhalo117 »

Offline Fmedici

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Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #95 on: 03/31/2023 01:53 pm »
I would like to have your opinion on this?

In another forum about China space flight, there was a post regarding the different launch sites at Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center.

The poster says the following...

There are a total of eight launchpads, with six being active and two retired:

LC-90: for launching CZ-2F;
LC-94: for launching CZ-2C/2D/4B/4C;
LC-95A/B: for launching CZ-11, KZ-1A, KZ-11, KT-2, CERES-1, SQX-1, etc.;
LC-96: for launching ZQ-2 rockets from the private launch company LandSpace;
LC-130: for launching rockets from the private launch provider Zhongke;
LC-138: for launching CZ-2/2C/2D;
LC-5020: built for launching the now long-retired CZ-1 and China's first satellite (Dongfanghong-1).

138 and 5020 are now deactivated.

How should we write the designations of the launch complexes? I have been using, for example, LC43/94 for the launch pad for CZ-2C/2D/4B/4C. Do you think this is correct, or should we only use LC-94?

Using LC43/94 is similar with the notation used for Russian launches, like LC31/6 (LC31 PU-6) for the Soyuz launch pad at Baikonur.

Also, for years, I used the LC43/91 designation for the CZ-2F. Is this correct, or is LC-90 as the poster says?

Feedbacks are welcomed!

Mod edit corrected typo

Great summary! I would like to use this information to update the Wikipedia pages about the Jiuquan site, but I'm having problems in finding all the correspondences. As of now on Wikipedia the launch sites are grouped into three different areas. Launch Area 2 (the one containing LC-138 and LC-5020) and Launch Area 4 (corresponding to Site 43) are already aknowledged in your summary, but there's also a Launch Area 3 in the list described as containing 2 launch pads for DF-1, DF-2 and R-2 rockets (at coordinates 41.283190N, 100.304706E and 41.280457N, 100.304582E). Are those two pads officially considered part of JSLC? And how would those fit into the notation used in your summary?

Also a couple of further questions, are the newly built commercial pads (LC-95, 96, 130 and the Tianlong-2 one) considered as part of Site 43? And is the designation of the Tianlong-2 pad known?

Offline limen4

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Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #96 on: 03/31/2023 05:00 pm »

Great summary! I would like to use this information to update the Wikipedia pages about the Jiuquan site, but I'm having problems in finding all the correspondences. As of now on Wikipedia the launch sites are grouped into three different areas. Launch Area 2 (the one containing LC-138 and LC-5020) and Launch Area 4 (corresponding to Site 43) are already aknowledged in your summary, but there's also a Launch Area 3 in the list described as containing 2 launch pads for DF-1, DF-2 and R-2 rockets (at coordinates 41.283190N, 100.304706E and 41.280457N, 100.304582E). Are those two pads officially considered part of JSLC? And how would those fit into the notation used in your summary?

Also a couple of further questions, are the newly built commercial pads (LC-95, 96, 130 and the Tianlong-2 one) considered as part of Site 43? And is the designation of the Tianlong-2 pad known?

I attach an image containing the JSLC site numbers as of 1980. You can see that site 4 do not correspond to a missile launch area but to a former tracking facility near site 3.
Site 3 itself consists of 2 separate truck serviced launch areas.
For completion site 1 is the northern most launch area which was used for cruise missiles at the beginning.
It is a good question which sites belong to JSLC. As far as I understand all sites (including the supporting facilities) for launching SSM, SAM and orbital missions belong to JSLC. It is the same situation as for TSLC where most of the launch areas are used for launching ballistic missiles and only few for satellite missions but nevertheless the whole area is called Taiyuan Satellite Launch Center.
I would recommend to shift the discussion now to the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center thread.

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #97 on: 03/31/2023 06:18 pm »
I would like to have your opinion on this?

In another forum about China space flight, there was a post regarding the different launch sites at Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center.

The poster says the following...

There are a total of eight launchpads, with six being active and two retired:

LC-90: for launching CZ-2F;
LC-94: for launching CZ-2C/2D/4B/4C;
LC-95A/B: for launching CZ-11, KZ-1A, KZ-11, KT-2, CERES-1, SQX-1, etc.;
LC-96: for launching ZQ-2 rockets from the private launch company LandSpace;
LC-130: for launching rockets from the private launch provider Zhongke;
LC-138: for launching CZ-2/2C/2D;
LC-5020: built for launching the now long-retired CZ-1 and China's first satellite (Dongfanghong-1).

138 and 5020 are now deactivated.

How should we write the designations of the launch complexes? I have been using, for example, LC43/94 for the launch pad for CZ-2C/2D/4B/4C. Do you think this is correct, or should we only use LC-94?

Using LC43/94 is similar with the notation used for Russian launches, like LC31/6 (LC31 PU-6) for the Soyuz launch pad at Baikonur.

Also, for years, I used the LC43/91 designation for the CZ-2F. Is this correct, or is LC-90 as the poster says?

Feedbacks are welcomed!

Mod edit corrected typo

Great summary! I would like to use this information to update the Wikipedia pages about the Jiuquan site, but I'm having problems in finding all the correspondences. As of now on Wikipedia the launch sites are grouped into three different areas. Launch Area 2 (the one containing LC-138 and LC-5020) and Launch Area 4 (corresponding to Site 43) are already aknowledged in your summary, but there's also a Launch Area 3 in the list described as containing 2 launch pads for DF-1, DF-2 and R-2 rockets (at coordinates 41.283190N, 100.304706E and 41.280457N, 100.304582E). Are those two pads officially considered part of JSLC? And how would those fit into the notation used in your summary?

Also a couple of further questions, are the newly built commercial pads (LC-95, 96, 130 and the Tianlong-2 one) considered as part of Site 43? And is the designation of the Tianlong-2 pad known?
Q): Are those two pads officially considered part of JSLC? And how would those fit into the notation used in your summary?
A):
Yes they do.
Reference the other Soviet built cosmodromes, YET the whole cosmodrome is also a part of a larger test and impact range. The latter covers auxiliary bases and airports which report to JSLC control centers.

Online Alter Sachse

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Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #98 on: 04/02/2023 08:43 am »
There is a lot of information about the use of the respective versions of the CZ-3B G2 and -G3. Unfortunately, the publications in this forum are not always exact or they are missing entirely. Together with my hobby friends Andreas from Leipzig and Olaf from Rees, Germany, I checked the many details by means of photo measurements and came to these results (see Excel lists).

By the CZ-3B G2 we mean the more powerful version of the CZ-3B, also the CZ-3BE with the 4,000F payload fairing. The CZ-3B G3 has the 4,200F fairing. The difference in fairings can be seen especially on the lower cone, the angles are noticeably different.

Photo sources are above all the wonderful start reports here in the forum, formerly also the information from 9ifly. And materials on Chinese launchers that were available at the Le Bourget and Berlin trade fairs.

I would be very grateful for any comments or corrections.

source drawing: LM-3A Series Launch Vehicle User's Manual, Issue 2011,Chapter 4
Payload Fairing
One day you're a hero  next day you're a clown  there's nothing that is in between
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Online Galactic Penguin SST

Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #99 on: 11/16/2023 05:02 am »
Per the semi-official China Space News, the Long March 2C "currently has 2 active variants - the basic one and one with the YZ-1S upper stage". This means the earlier 2C/SMA variant with the solid fuel SMA upper stage has been retired.
Astronomy & spaceflight geek penguin. In a relationship w/ Space Shuttle Discovery. Current Priority: Chasing the Chinese Spaceflight Wonder Egg & A Certain Chinese Mars Rover

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