### Author Topic: China launchers Q&A  (Read 128494 times)

#### Galactic Penguin SST

##### Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #40 on: 01/28/2012 02:20 pm »
This is what I believe the correct pairings of stages for the current versions of Chinese launchers (as of 2012). Note that I'm using the notation first used on the Ariane family to describe the amount of propellant on each stage when fully fueled. The items in bold are those that are uncertain. Any comments?

1st stage of CZ-2C/CZ-3A/CZ-3B(original)/CZ-3C = L172
1st stage of  CZ-3B/E / CZ-2F = L186
1st stage of  CZ-2D / CZ-4B / CZ-4C = L183
2nd stage of CZ-3A = L30
2nd stage of CZ-4B / CZ-4C = L35
2nd stage of CZ-3B / CZ-3B/E / CZ-3C = L45
2nd stage of CZ-2C / CZ-2D = L55
2nd stage of CZ-2F = L86
3rd stage of CZ-3A / CZ-3B / CZ-3B/E / CZ-3C = H18
3rd stage of CZ-4B / CZ-4C = L12
Booster stage of CZ-3B/E / CZ-2F (pre-TG-1) / CZ-3C (with propellant offload?)= L40
Booster stage of CZ-3B (original) = L38
Booster stage of CZ-2F (2011 version) = L4?
« Last Edit: 01/28/2012 03:17 pm by Galactic Penguin SST »
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#### Galactic Penguin SST

##### Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #41 on: 01/29/2012 09:57 am »
This is what I believe the correct pairings of stages for the current versions of Chinese launchers (as of 2012). Note that I'm using the notation first used on the Ariane family to describe the amount of propellant on each stage when fully fueled. The items in bold are those that are uncertain. Any comments?

1st stage of CZ-2C/CZ-3A/CZ-3B(original)/CZ-3C = L172
1st stage of  CZ-3B/E / CZ-2F = L186
1st stage of  CZ-2D / CZ-4B / CZ-4C = L183
2nd stage of CZ-3A = L30
2nd stage of CZ-4B / CZ-4C = L35
2nd stage of CZ-3B / CZ-3B/E / CZ-3C = L45
2nd stage of CZ-2C / CZ-2D = L55
2nd stage of CZ-2F = L86
3rd stage of CZ-3A / CZ-3B / CZ-3B/E / CZ-3C = H18
3rd stage of CZ-4B / CZ-4C = L12
Booster stage of CZ-3B/E / CZ-2F (pre-TG-1) / CZ-3C (with propellant offload?)= L40
Booster stage of CZ-3B (original) = L38
Booster stage of CZ-2F (2011 version) = L4?

Following my earlier post, I've asked the same question on a Chinese forum. Here's the answer:

CZ-2C (since 2004): L172+L55
CZ-2D (since 2003): L182+L53
CZ-2F (since 1999): 4xL41+L186+L84
CZ-2F/G (since 2011): 4xL45+L186+L84
CZ-3A: L172+L30+H18
CZ-3B (since 1996): 4xL38+L172+L45+H18
CZ-3B/E (since 2007): 4xL41+L186+L45+H18
CZ-3C (original design): 2xL38+L172+L45+H18
CZ-3C (since 2008): 2xL41+L186+L45+H18
CZ-4B/CZ-4C: L182+L34+L14

Source
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#### Satori

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##### Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #42 on: 01/29/2012 12:17 pm »
Very interesting! Thank you Galactic!

#### Victory O

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##### Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #43 on: 02/01/2012 08:12 am »
significant progress made on CZ-5 project within the first week of Chinese Lunar Calendar Year of Dragon......Although low quality screen shots from CNTV again......
« Last Edit: 02/01/2012 08:14 am by Victory O »

#### vill

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##### Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #44 on: 02/16/2012 04:31 am »
significant progress made on CZ-5 project within the first week of Chinese Lunar Calendar Year of Dragon......Although low quality screen shots from CNTV again......

Here is link on similar report - maybe same, dont know(somewhat shortened and without graphics)
http://newscontent.cctv.com/news.jsp?fileId=129307

Also, is the rocket on the right (on infographics) LM-5? I think so, according to numbers, but not sure. Will it use liquid propellant boosters, or not yet known?

#### Galactic Penguin SST

##### Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #45 on: 10/07/2013 04:19 am »
Someone has posted a Chinese paper that resolves all configuration discrepancies between the different rockets of the CZ-3A series.

Basically:

CZ-3A - just the one sub-variant
CZ-3B:
standard version - the original CZ-3B as flown in 1996, with standard length first stage and boosters, uses the 4.0 m diameter 4000F fairing
CZ-3B/G1 - standard version CZ-3B with the 3.7 m diameter 3700Z dual-payload fairing, only used for the dual COMPASS MEO launches in 2012
CZ-3B/G2 - the original enhanced CZ-3B, with lengthened first stage and boosters, uses the 4.0 m diameter 4000F fairing, first flown in 2007
CZ-3B/G3 - enhanced CZ-3B with the 4.2 diameter 4200F fairing
CZ-3B/G2 and G3 corresponds to what we call the "CZ-3B/E".

CZ-3C - currently just the one sub-variant, with standard length first stage and boosters, uses the 4.0 m diameter 4000F fairing (contradictory to what I said earlier, the CZ-3C as flown today do not use the lengthened first stage and boosters , but see below)

The problems with the different stage configurations (e.g. the pad at Xichang requires mating/de-mating of electric cables and gas ducts on the umbilical arms every time between launches of a CZ-3B/E and a CZ-3C) means that there's a need to standardize the launcher configurations. The "standard length" boosters will be phased out in the near future, leaving these mainstay sub-variants:

CZ-3B/G2 (GTO capability 5.5 tonnes)
CZ-3B/G3 (GTO capability 5.4 tonnes)
CZ-3C/G2 ("CZ-3C/E", or CZ-3B/G2 minus two boosters)  (GTO capability 3.9 tonnes)

plus these special variants:

CZ-3B/G3Z - enhanced CZ-3B with the 4.2 m diameter 4200Z fairing and extra RCS tanks and thrusters on the 3rd stage, probably for extra-long coast missions. May debut on the Chang'e 3 launch later this year. GTO capability 5.2 tonnes.
CZ-3C/G3Z - CZ-3B/G2 minus two boosters. GTO capability 3.7 tonnes.
CZ-3B/YZ-1 - enhanced CZ-3B with the 4.2 m diameter 4200Z fairing and the planned GEO direct insertion upper stage (probably the one using RP-1/H2O2 fuel as exhibited in various aerospace exhibits over the past several years), will be used for future COMPASS system launches
CZ-3C/YZ-1 - CZ-3B/YZ-1 minus two boosters, will be used for future COMPASS system launches

Maybe someone can help to check which launch uses the sub-variants as described above?

Astronomy & spaceflight geek penguin. In a relationship w/ Space Shuttle Discovery. Current Priority: Chasing the Chinese Spaceflight Wonder Egg & A Certain Chinese Mars Rover

#### russianhalo117

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##### Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #46 on: 10/08/2013 03:18 pm »
Someone has posted a Chinese paper that resolves all configuration discrepancies between the different rockets of the CZ-3A series.

Basically:

CZ-3A - just the one sub-variant
CZ-3B:
standard version - the original CZ-3B as flown in 1996, with standard length first stage and boosters, uses the 4.0 m diameter 4000F fairing
CZ-3B/G1 - standard version CZ-3B with the 3.7 m diameter 3700Z dual-payload fairing, only used for the dual COMPASS MEO launches in 2012
CZ-3B/G2 - the original enhanced CZ-3B, with lengthened first stage and boosters, uses the 4.0 m diameter 4000F fairing, first flown in 2007
CZ-3B/G3 - enhanced CZ-3B with the 4.2 diameter 4200F fairing
CZ-3B/G2 and G3 corresponds to what we call the "CZ-3B/E".

CZ-3C - currently just the one sub-variant, with standard length first stage and boosters, uses the 4.0 m diameter 4000F fairing (contradictory to what I said earlier, the CZ-3C as flown today do not use the lengthened first stage and boosters , but see below)

The problems with the different stage configurations (e.g. the pad at Xichang requires mating/de-mating of electric cables and gas ducts on the umbilical arms every time between launches of a CZ-3B/E and a CZ-3C) means that there's a need to standardize the launcher configurations. The "standard length" boosters will be phased out in the near future, leaving these mainstay sub-variants:

CZ-3B/G2 (GTO capability 5.5 tonnes)
CZ-3B/G3 (GTO capability 5.4 tonnes)
CZ-3C/G2 ("CZ-3C/E", or CZ-3B/G2 minus two boosters)  (GTO capability 3.9 tonnes)

plus these special variants:

CZ-3B/G3Z - enhanced CZ-3B with the 4.2 m diameter 4200Z fairing and extra RCS tanks and thrusters on the 3rd stage, probably for extra-long coast missions. May debut on the Chang'e 3 launch later this year. GTO capability 5.2 tonnes.
CZ-3C/G3Z - CZ-3B/G2 minus two boosters. GTO capability 3.7 tonnes.
CZ-3B/YZ-1 - enhanced CZ-3B with the 4.2 m diameter 4200Z fairing and the planned GEO direct insertion upper stage (probably the one using RP-1/H2O2 fuel as exhibited in various aerospace exhibits over the past several years), will be used for future COMPASS system launches
CZ-3C/YZ-1 - CZ-3B/YZ-1 minus two boosters, will be used for future COMPASS system launches

Maybe someone can help to check which launch uses the sub-variants as described above?
We should create a pinned topic that lists all of China's launchers (Past, Present, and Future) with their associated launch pads so that way people do not have to keep asking in a new topic every time everyone forgets that one exists.

#### Satori

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##### Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #47 on: 10/08/2013 06:35 pm »
Someone has posted a Chinese paper that resolves all configuration discrepancies between the different rockets of the CZ-3A series.

Basically:

CZ-3A - just the one sub-variant
CZ-3B:
standard version - the original CZ-3B as flown in 1996, with standard length first stage and boosters, uses the 4.0 m diameter 4000F fairing
CZ-3B/G1 - standard version CZ-3B with the 3.7 m diameter 3700Z dual-payload fairing, only used for the dual COMPASS MEO launches in 2012
CZ-3B/G2 - the original enhanced CZ-3B, with lengthened first stage and boosters, uses the 4.0 m diameter 4000F fairing, first flown in 2007
CZ-3B/G3 - enhanced CZ-3B with the 4.2 diameter 4200F fairing
CZ-3B/G2 and G3 corresponds to what we call the "CZ-3B/E".

CZ-3C - currently just the one sub-variant, with standard length first stage and boosters, uses the 4.0 m diameter 4000F fairing (contradictory to what I said earlier, the CZ-3C as flown today do not use the lengthened first stage and boosters , but see below)

The problems with the different stage configurations (e.g. the pad at Xichang requires mating/de-mating of electric cables and gas ducts on the umbilical arms every time between launches of a CZ-3B/E and a CZ-3C) means that there's a need to standardize the launcher configurations. The "standard length" boosters will be phased out in the near future, leaving these mainstay sub-variants:

CZ-3B/G2 (GTO capability 5.5 tonnes)
CZ-3B/G3 (GTO capability 5.4 tonnes)
CZ-3C/G2 ("CZ-3C/E", or CZ-3B/G2 minus two boosters)  (GTO capability 3.9 tonnes)

plus these special variants:

CZ-3B/G3Z - enhanced CZ-3B with the 4.2 m diameter 4200Z fairing and extra RCS tanks and thrusters on the 3rd stage, probably for extra-long coast missions. May debut on the Chang'e 3 launch later this year. GTO capability 5.2 tonnes.
CZ-3C/G3Z - CZ-3B/G2 minus two boosters. GTO capability 3.7 tonnes.
CZ-3B/YZ-1 - enhanced CZ-3B with the 4.2 m diameter 4200Z fairing and the planned GEO direct insertion upper stage (probably the one using RP-1/H2O2 fuel as exhibited in various aerospace exhibits over the past several years), will be used for future COMPASS system launches
CZ-3C/YZ-1 - CZ-3B/YZ-1 minus two boosters, will be used for future COMPASS system launches

Maybe someone can help to check which launch uses the sub-variants as described above?
We should create a pinned topic that lists all of China's launchers (Past, Present, and Future) with their associated launch pads so that way people do not have to keep asking in a new topic every time everyone forgets that one exists.

Copy that! That's a good idea! I'll work on it. All help will be welcomed!

#### Dante80

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##### Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #48 on: 11/03/2016 02:48 pm »
With the second LM-11 launch possibly coming in this month, I wanted to look up some more information about the LV. The result was pitiful. Could the limited publicity have anything to do with the LV possibly having technology and part commonalities with the DF-41 ballistic missile which is still under active development?
« Last Edit: 11/03/2016 02:49 pm by Dante80 »

#### edkyle99

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##### Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #49 on: 11/03/2016 03:03 pm »
With the second LM-11 launch possibly coming in this month, I wanted to look up some more information about the LV. The result was pitiful. Could the limited publicity have anything to do with the LV possibly having technology and part commonalities with the DF-41 ballistic missile which is still under active development?
I believe that CZ-11 may be based on the DF-31 series solid fuel ballistic missile already in China's inventory.  The canister used to launch CZ-11 was similar to launch canisters used by the road-mobile DF-31A.
http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/cz11.html

- Ed Kyle

#### Dante80

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##### Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #50 on: 11/03/2016 03:57 pm »
That was my first thought too (DF-41 is also much bigger than it). Thanks for the prompt reply.

#### jcm

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##### Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #51 on: 12/18/2016 07:22 am »
http://build.whir.net/htkg/index_23.aspx  shows the new KZ-11 rocket (there's even a putative link to a user
The rocket is 2.2m diameter, the same as the DF-3/CZ-1 and as the CZ-7 strapons. But those are CALT products I believe, and I expected the KZ-11 to be a CASIC product (as opposed to CALT's CZ-11) since the marketer Expace is a CASIC subsidiary.

Anyone got an idea what the KZ-11 is based on?

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#### plutogno

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##### Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #52 on: 12/18/2016 12:36 pm »
it took me a while, but I managed to download the KZ-1 user manual
« Last Edit: 12/18/2016 01:20 pm by plutogno »

#### Galactic Penguin SST

##### Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #53 on: 12/18/2016 12:39 pm »
http://build.whir.net/htkg/index_23.aspx  shows the new KZ-11 rocket (there's even a putative link to a user
The rocket is 2.2m diameter, the same as the DF-3/CZ-1 and as the CZ-7 strapons. But those are CALT products I believe, and I expected the KZ-11 to be a CASIC product (as opposed to CALT's CZ-11) since the marketer Expace is a CASIC subsidiary.

Anyone got an idea what the KZ-11 is based on?

......and I believe KZ-11 is all solid as well so nothing to do with the rockets above.
Astronomy & spaceflight geek penguin. In a relationship w/ Space Shuttle Discovery. Current Priority: Chasing the Chinese Spaceflight Wonder Egg & A Certain Chinese Mars Rover

#### jcm

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##### Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #54 on: 12/18/2016 03:18 pm »
http://build.whir.net/htkg/index_23.aspx  shows the new KZ-11 rocket (there's even a putative link to a user
The rocket is 2.2m diameter, the same as the DF-3/CZ-1 and as the CZ-7 strapons. But those are CALT products I believe, and I expected the KZ-11 to be a CASIC product (as opposed to CALT's CZ-11) since the marketer Expace is a CASIC subsidiary.

Anyone got an idea what the KZ-11 is based on?

......and I believe KZ-11 is all solid as well so nothing to do with the rockets above.

Ah, good point. So to rephrase the question, it seems unlikely that a 2.2m-diameter all-solid launch vehicle ISN'T
based on a military missile. But I'm not aware of a comparable diameter Chinese solid missile except DF-31/DF-41
which I understand is a CALT/ARMT product.
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#### Galactic Penguin SST

##### Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #55 on: 12/18/2016 03:44 pm »
http://build.whir.net/htkg/index_23.aspx  shows the new KZ-11 rocket (there's even a putative link to a user
The rocket is 2.2m diameter, the same as the DF-3/CZ-1 and as the CZ-7 strapons. But those are CALT products I believe, and I expected the KZ-11 to be a CASIC product (as opposed to CALT's CZ-11) since the marketer Expace is a CASIC subsidiary.

Anyone got an idea what the KZ-11 is based on?

......and I believe KZ-11 is all solid as well so nothing to do with the rockets above.

Ah, good point. So to rephrase the question, it seems unlikely that a 2.2m-diameter all-solid launch vehicle ISN'T
based on a military missile. But I'm not aware of a comparable diameter Chinese solid missile except DF-31/DF-41
which I understand is a CALT/ARMT product.

It's probably a new design, especially since IIRC it uses carbon fiber casings (which reminds me that I need to translate all relevant materials on the KZ series to here soon....sigh).
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#### zotiraki

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##### Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #56 on: 01/17/2017 02:56 pm »
I'm looking for cost data on Chinese launch vehicles.  Anybody have some reputable numbers or a good source?  I have a 2012 source from this forum
and a 2013 cost of \$70M for a CZ-3B (SpaceNews website, "China Great Wall Reaffirms Commitment to \$70 Million Long March Launches").
Also have a \$10M target cost for KZ-11 from https://www.chinaspaceflight.com/rocket/KZ-11/KZ-11.html
The rest eludes me.  Any help would be appreciated.

#### zzabur

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##### Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #57 on: 01/18/2017 07:11 am »

The second author (Long Lehao) was the chief designer of CZ-5, so information here is very credible.

#### Galactic Penguin SST

##### Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #58 on: 01/18/2017 08:52 am »

The second author (Long Lehao) was the chief designer of CZ-5, so information here is very credible.

Heh, I saw that yesterday and I still don't have time to summarize it! I'll do that later today.
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#### Moon Rabbit

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##### Re: China launchers Q&A
« Reply #59 on: 10/19/2017 03:35 am »
Need help with regards to reading the thread in the sticky https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=30673.0

There is a list of orbital launches there. Figured out most of the fields (please correct me if wrong) except the two fields coloured red. What does those two fields represent? I guess the second one is the launch timing, but what is the format...can't figure it out.

<sequence> <(99-99)> - <launch vehicle> <(factory serial no.)> - <launch date> <(9999:99.999)> - <launch site>, <launch pad> - <payload>

Btw, the (factory serial no.) is something i just made up. Another thread describe this as a factory number/serial number. What would be the correct descriptor for this number?

.
.
2015

205 (07-63) - CZ-3C/YZ-1 (Y11/Y1) - March 30 (1352:30.598) - XSLC, LC2 - Beidou-3 I1 (BDS I1-S)
206 (05-46) - CZ-4C (Y30) - June 26 (0622:043.731) - TSLC, LC9 - GF-8
207 (07-64) - CZ-3B/YZ-1 (Y26/Y2) - July 25 (1229:04.411) - XSLC, LC2 - Beidou-3 M1-S (Beidou-18); Beidou-3 M2-S (Beidou-19)
208 (07-66) - CZ-3B/G2 (Y32) - September 12 (1542:04.418) - XSLC, LC2 - Tongxin Jishu Shiyan Weixing-1
209 - CZ-2D (Y21) - September 14 (0442) - JSLC, LC43/603 - Gaofen-9

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