Author Topic: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3  (Read 749213 times)

Offline dglow

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1862
  • Liked: 2092
  • Likes Given: 4009
Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #3360 on: 09/12/2022 09:24 pm »
Another problem is that the Orion for A2 doesn't have a docking system installed, something that is needed for Artemis 3 but not for Artemis 2. It would be a waste of a docking system to use the Orion for A3 on A2.

Why? Pull it off and reuse it, just like the avionics.  ;D

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36058
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 20395
  • Likes Given: 10572
Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #3361 on: 09/12/2022 09:35 pm »
Ugh, the lack of a docking system is super annoying as it reduces contingency options and alternative launch options.

They need a new docking system each mission because I think it gets cooked During reentry, unlike Dragon’s which is protected by the nose cone.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline whitelancer64

Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #3362 on: 09/12/2022 10:49 pm »
Ugh, the lack of a docking system is super annoying as it reduces contingency options and alternative launch options.

They need a new docking system each mission because I think it gets cooked During reentry, unlike Dragon’s which is protected by the nose cone.

There's no contingency for a docking system to be used. There's nothing where Artemis 2 is going that it could dock to.

CRS-11 and CRS-13 to 20 were all flown with reused Dragons. It had no reentry protection for the berthing system. Were the berthing hatches on these Cargo Dragons replaced? Granted, reentry from LEO and from the Moon are different beasts.

Obviously, having some heat shielding would make it easier to refurbish, but I don't think we can say they'd be entirely replaced. NASA / LM probably won't be able to make that call until after they get a good look at how the docking system fared after Artemis 3 returns to Earth.
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Online yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15656
  • Liked: 5957
  • Likes Given: 2635
Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #3363 on: 09/13/2022 04:13 am »
See below, Artemis was discussed throughout the various speeches:

https://twitter.com/NASA/status/1569354757466214401


« Last Edit: 09/13/2022 04:23 am by yg1968 »

Online yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15656
  • Liked: 5957
  • Likes Given: 2635

Online yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15656
  • Liked: 5957
  • Likes Given: 2635
Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #3365 on: 09/20/2022 09:51 pm »
See below:

I didn't realize this but it seems that Susie could fly to lunar orbit:

https://twitter.com/SPACEdotcom/status/1572317608271028226

Online haywoodfloyd

  • Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 635
  • Ottawa, Ontario CANADA
  • Liked: 174
  • Likes Given: 16
Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #3366 on: 09/21/2022 02:09 pm »
Hydrogen leak detected in Tail Service Mast Umbilical at 7% concentration.
Stop flow reduced the concentration.
Will try warming procedure.

« Last Edit: 09/21/2022 02:11 pm by haywoodfloyd »

Online haywoodfloyd

  • Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 635
  • Ottawa, Ontario CANADA
  • Liked: 174
  • Likes Given: 16
Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #3367 on: 09/21/2022 03:12 pm »
New plan: Warm-up completed.
Will attempt to restart fill at a lower pressure.

Online haywoodfloyd

  • Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 635
  • Ottawa, Ontario CANADA
  • Liked: 174
  • Likes Given: 16
Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #3368 on: 09/21/2022 05:21 pm »
Core Stage is at Stable Replenish on both Oxygen and Hydrogen.
Upper Stage loading next.
« Last Edit: 09/21/2022 05:24 pm by haywoodfloyd »

Online FutureSpaceTourist

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30661
  • UK
    • Plan 28
  • Liked: 55127
  • Likes Given: 24291
Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #3369 on: 10/03/2022 06:39 pm »
https://www.nasa.gov/exploration/systems/sls/artemis-ii-rocket-engines-arrive-at-nasa-s-michoud-assembly-facility.html

Quote
Sep 29, 2022

Artemis II Rocket Engines Arrive at NASA’s Michoud Assembly Facility
 
Teams have delivered the four RS-25 engines that will help power Artemis II, the first crewed mission of NASA’s Artemis missions and second flight of the Space Launch System (SLS) rocket, to NASA’s Michoud Assembly Facility in New Orleans. Later this fall, the engines will be installed into the Artemis II core stage, which is in the final phase of assembly at Michoud where it was manufactured. Trucks transported the engines in special containers from NASA’s Stennis Space Center near Bay St. Louis, Mississippi, where they were upgraded with new controllers.

Together, the four RS-25 engines will produce more than 2 million pounds of thrust during ascent to help send Artemis II astronauts beyond Earth’s orbit to lunar orbit. Technicians from NASA and Aerojet Rocketdyne, the prime contractor for the engines, will store the engines at Michoud and prepare them for integration into the engine section at the bottom of the rocket’s 212-foot-tall core stage. They will use a pathfinder engine to practice the intricate process of installing each engine on the stage prior to installing the flight engines.

The first engine – Engine E2047 -- of the flight set flew on 15 space shuttle missions, including the final shuttle mission STS-135. The second engine of the set – Engine E2059 -- previously flew on five shuttle missions. The third and fourth engines – E2062 and E2063 – are new engines that include some previously flown hardware.

With the Artemis missions, NASA will land the first woman and the first person of color on the Moon and establish long-term exploration in preparation for missions to Mars. SLS and NASA’s Orion spacecraft, along with the commercial human landing system and the Gateway in orbit around the Moon, are NASA’s backbone for deep space exploration. SLS is the only rocket that can send Orion, astronauts, and supplies to the Moon in a single mission.

Image Credit: NASA/ Michael DeMocker

Last Updated: Sep 29, 2022
Editor: Lee Mohon
Tags:  Artemis, Moon to Mars, Space Launch System

Online FutureSpaceTourist

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30661
  • UK
    • Plan 28
  • Liked: 55127
  • Likes Given: 24291
Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #3370 on: 10/03/2022 09:02 pm »
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/nasa-to-practice-artemis-moonwalking-roving-operations-in-arizona-desert

Quote
Oct 3, 2022

NASA to Practice Artemis Moonwalking, Roving Operations in Arizona Desert

To prepare for the Artemis era of research on the Moon, NASA will conduct two, multi-week field tests near Flagstaff, Arizona with astronauts, engineers, and scientists to practice mission scenarios for Artemis astronauts in a simulated lunar surface environment.

The Arizona desert possesses many characteristics that are analogous to a lunar environment including challenging terrain, interesting geology, and minimal communications infrastructure, all of which astronauts will experience near the lunar South Pole during Artemis missions.

The two analog missions scheduled for Oct. 2022 – the Joint Extravehicular Activity and Human Surface Mobility Program Test Team (JETT) Field Test #3 and Desert Research and Technology Studies (D-RATS) – will provide crucial data and lessons learned as teams conduct operations in a simulated lunar environment to practice for the real event.

JETT3: Understanding Lunar South Pole Lighting Conditions for Moonwalks
First in the series of missions is JETT3. JETT3 will consist of four simulated moonwalks that follow operations planned for Artemis III, the first of the Artemis missions to land astronauts on the lunar surface. The primary focus of this analog mission is to help NASA gain an understanding of the requirements for the unique lighting conditions at the lunar South Pole region.

The mission is planned for Oct. 4-9 near the S P Crater, which is about 40 miles North of Flagstaff, Arizona. JETT3 is the final test in the 2022 JETT series, which is a broader mission scale test to ensure successful surface operations and technology development for Artemis III.

To replicate the proper lighting conditions, the JETT3 simulated moonwalks will occur at night, and a simulated sun will produce lighting and shadows in the field.

Two NASA astronauts, Drew Feustel and Zena Cardman, will serve as the crewmembers for all four moonwalks and will traverse within an approximate one-mile circle wearing mockup spacesuit systems. While wearing the mockups that simulate fully pressurized spacesuits, they will use a variety of moonwalking tools and techniques to collect samples including raking, hammering, and coring.

A flight control team will lead the simulated moonwalks from the Mission Control Center at NASA’s Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas, and will be joined by a science team that will analyze the astronauts’ simulated moonwalks in real-time.

At the end of each day and at the conclusion of the simulated mission, the science team, flight control team, crewmembers, and field experts will come together to discuss and record lessons learned. NASA will take these lessons and apply them to developing technologies and planning operations for Artemis missions.

D-RATS: Testing Pressurized Rovers
D-RATS will practice operations for future missions beyond Artemis III and will consist of three mission runs scheduled for Oct. 11-22 at Black Point Lava Flow, near S P Crater. The mission will primarily focus on conducting pressurized rover operations, which is a key element of future Artemis missions starting with Artemis VII in 2030.

Pressurized rovers are like recreational vehicles, commonly known as RVs, safely housing astronauts for weeks at a time, complete with all the air, water, food, hygiene equipment, and tools they need on their trek across the lunar surface. Astronauts can live and work comfortably inside the rover, exiting the vehicle to collect samples or deploy experiments.

Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) will join NASA for D-RATS as part of a study agreement that supports JAXA’s ability to potentially provide a pressurized rover for Artemis. JAXA astronauts and engineers will have an opportunity to experience living and working from within NASA’s prototype pressurized rover in an operational environment.

JAXA astronauts Akihiko Hoshide and Norishige Kanai, and JAXA expert Naofumi Ikeda will join NASA astronauts Jessica Meir and Stan Love and NASA engineer Sarah Shull, in driving a pressurized rover over the course of three days. Crews of two will rotate through living and operating out of the pressurized rover, including conducting simulated moonwalks.

Throughout D-RATS, NASA and JAXA will gather data about the pressurized rover’s design, cabin configuration, driving modes, timeline constraints, and mission operations to support potential design concepts for future pressurized rovers.

A team of NASA and JAXA flight controllers, astronauts, and scientists will lead the analog mission from the Mission Control Center. This team, together with crewmembers and field experts, will work together to record data for potential technology and operations development for a pressurized rover.

Through Artemis, NASA will land the first woman and the first person of color on the Moon, paving the way for a long-term, sustainable lunar presence and serving as a steppingstone for future astronaut missions to Mars. Analog missions help prepare humans for the challenges of deep space exploration and journeying farther into the cosmos.

Learn more about NASA’s analog missions:

https://www.nasa.gov/analogs/what-are-analog-missions

Last Updated: Oct 3, 2022
Editor: Erin Mahoney
Tags:  Artemis, Johnson Space Center, Moon to Mars

Image caption:

Quote
Oct 3, 2022

Astronaut Scott Tingle takes a closer look at rock formations at Black Point Lava Flow, Arizona during a simulated spacewalk on day 5 of NASA’s Desert Research and Technology Studies (D-RATS) in 2011. The upcoming DRATS mission is a reboot of a program that conducted analog missions from 1997-2012.
Credits: NASA/Regan Geeseman

Online FutureSpaceTourist

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30661
  • UK
    • Plan 28
  • Liked: 55127
  • Likes Given: 24291
Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #3371 on: 10/04/2022 11:06 pm »
https://twitter.com/nasa_marshall/status/1577433383382179840

Quote
Testing a component that will fly on #Artemis IV!

The interstage simulator special test equipment will be used during Green Run testing of the new Exploration Upper Stage (EUS) at @NASAStennis.

Learn more HERE>> https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/stennis-begins-work-on-key-testing-component


Online yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15656
  • Liked: 5957
  • Likes Given: 2635
Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #3372 on: 10/07/2022 03:31 pm »
Here is a recent quote from Norm Augustine:

Quote from: Norm Augustine
Q: What issues should a hypothetical 2022 commission consider?

A: One is certainly the balance between robotic and human exploration. One is the $3 billion budget shortfall. One is going to the moon but not bogging down there. I still think Mars is a very important goal for NASA and the nation. Another is that NASA is going to have to start planning for the enormous budget crunch that you can see coming and could see coming for the last decade. That is going to put pressure on the Defense Department and NASA unlike any they’ve ever seen before.

https://aerospaceamerica.aiaa.org/departments/the-thought-leaders-thought-leader/

I can't say that I agree with Augustine. I don't see the danger of NASA getting bogged down on the Moon. My own view is that we should have continuous presence on the Moon before even thinking about Mars.
« Last Edit: 10/07/2022 03:32 pm by yg1968 »

Offline Athelstane

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 239
  • Washington, D.C.
  • Liked: 232
  • Likes Given: 540
Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #3373 on: 10/07/2022 04:35 pm »
Here is a recent quote from Norm Augustine:

Quote from: Norm Augustine
Q: What issues should a hypothetical 2022 commission consider?

A: One is certainly the balance between robotic and human exploration. One is the $3 billion budget shortfall. One is going to the moon but not bogging down there. I still think Mars is a very important goal for NASA and the nation. Another is that NASA is going to have to start planning for the enormous budget crunch that you can see coming and could see coming for the last decade. That is going to put pressure on the Defense Department and NASA unlike any they’ve ever seen before.


https://aerospaceamerica.aiaa.org/departments/the-thought-leaders-thought-leader/

I can't say that I agree with Augustine. I don't see the danger of NASA getting bogged down on the Moon. My own view is that we should have continuous presence on the Moon before even thinking about Mars.

For once, you and I are in agreement!
« Last Edit: 10/08/2022 10:18 pm by Athelstane »

Offline mike robel

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2266
  • Merritt Island, FL
  • Liked: 340
  • Likes Given: 177
Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #3374 on: 10/08/2022 04:54 pm »
Q: You’ve chaired two national commissions on space, the 1990 advisory committee on the future of the American space program and the 2009 review of human spaceflight plans. What’s changed, and what’s remained similar?

A: When you talk about things that have changed, certainly the technology has changed immensely over that period. The date of the first commission was exactly when the Soviet Union was coming unglued. The Russian issue would change vastly, and the Chinese picture was just beginning to emerge. Then there are other important things where we had discovered water ice on some of the most important places that we’d like to have humans go. And that of course is a big deal in terms of providing oxygen and energy and water. What stayed the same? Certainly, one thing that jumps out at me is that in my life working with NASA, for which I have great respect, NASA has always had about $3 billion a year more programs or goals than it’s had money. It’s very important that NASA get its appetite and its pocketbook somewhat attached to each other.

I think this is the 'money' quote of the Augustine Interview cited.

Online ddspaceman

Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #3375 on: 10/11/2022 03:19 am »
GT: From the Johnson Space Center in Houston to the Arizona desert, pressurized rover testing resumes.

Starting tomorrow, JAXA/NASA crews will take turns conducting various field tests on a 3-day, 2-night mission.

https://twitter.com/Astro_Kanai/status/1579664057208287232


Online yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15656
  • Liked: 5957
  • Likes Given: 2635
Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #3376 on: 10/11/2022 01:42 pm »
Here is a recent quote from Norm Augustine:

Quote from: Norm Augustine
Q: What issues should a hypothetical 2022 commission consider?

A: One is certainly the balance between robotic and human exploration. One is the $3 billion budget shortfall. One is going to the moon but not bogging down there. I still think Mars is a very important goal for NASA and the nation. Another is that NASA is going to have to start planning for the enormous budget crunch that you can see coming and could see coming for the last decade. That is going to put pressure on the Defense Department and NASA unlike any they’ve ever seen before.


https://aerospaceamerica.aiaa.org/departments/the-thought-leaders-thought-leader/

I can't say that I agree with Augustine. I don't see the danger of NASA getting bogged down on the Moon. My own view is that we should have continuous presence on the Moon before even thinking about Mars.

For once, you and I are in agreement!

We don't disagree as much as you think we do. I just acknowledge that SLS is a political reality. I would prefer a commercial HLV but I don't expect that it will happen any time soon. The best case scenario from a political point of view would be to have a commercial HLV in addition to SLS in order to be able to have 2 crewed lunar missions per year (but even that will be hard to sell to Congress). I hope that once that we return to the Moon with Artemis III, we realize that we never should have left the Moon and decide to stay this time.
« Last Edit: 10/11/2022 01:56 pm by yg1968 »

Online AnalogMan

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3348
  • Cambridge, UK
  • Liked: 1445
  • Likes Given: 44
Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #3377 on: 10/13/2022 11:49 am »
NASA has posted the Justification for Other than Full and Open Competition (JOFOC) for the Exploration Production Operations Contract (EPOC) & Transition Plans Contract (TPC).  Deep Space Transport LLC will provide launch services for Artemis, covering Artemis V to IX, with options for Artemis X to XIV.

The JOFOC has current value of contracts with Boeing (Core Stage & EUS), Aerojet Rocketdyne (RS-25 & RL10) and Northrop Grumman (SRBs).

https://sam.gov/opp/2292b3ecbd4846c08e8671ce3f34089b/view

(Copy of JOFOC and original Pre-Solicitation Synopsis are attached)
« Last Edit: 10/13/2022 12:52 pm by AnalogMan »

Offline Hog

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2602
  • Woodstock
  • Liked: 1500
  • Likes Given: 5489
Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #3378 on: 10/13/2022 03:31 pm »
Wow, talk of Artemis-XIV(14). That's 14 Core Stages, 28 SRBs and 56 RS25s all in the drink.  That's more RS25s than were built for the entire Space Shuttle program.
Paul

Online yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15656
  • Liked: 5957
  • Likes Given: 2635
Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #3379 on: 10/13/2022 03:44 pm »
Wow, talk of Artemis-XIV(14). That's 14 Core Stages, 28 SRBs and 56 RS25s all in the drink.  That's more RS25s than were built for the entire Space Shuttle program.

Artemis V to IX are baselined but Artemis X to XIV are options. See page 3 (the second page of the PDF) of the JOFOC document.

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement SkyTale Software GmbH
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
1