Quote from: Star One on 07/28/2015 07:49 pmQuote from: Chrochne on 07/28/2015 07:37 pmInternet is really getting wild about the latest development about the EmDrive. I see a lot of new posts. Only few are sceptical so far.I found one post today that already have 26 thousand shares just today. It usually triples in two more days. http://www.sciencealert.com/independent-scientists-confirm-that-the-impossible-em-drive-produces-thrustThis actually may hit major news. Dr. BagelBites dont get eaten by the newspaper guys there. We would surely miss you.Here is that sceptical article. It is sceptical but actualy have over 18 thousands shares already and 2 thousand plus visitors just this hour. http://io9.com/no-german-scientists-have-not-confirmed-the-impossibl-1720573809Great just what we don't need an invasion of the believers & sceptics again.I hear you there Mr. Star One Sean Caroll reaction to latest development http://www.outerplaces.com/science/item/9455-impossible-and-controversial-em-drive-can-get-us-to-the-moon-in-four-hours“My insight is that the EMDrive is complete crap and a waste of time,” said Carroll. “Right there in the abstract this paper says, ‘Our test campaign can not confirm or refute the claims of the EMDrive’, so I’m not sure what the news is. I’m going to spend my time thinking about ideas that don’t violate conservation of momentum.”
Quote from: Chrochne on 07/28/2015 07:37 pmInternet is really getting wild about the latest development about the EmDrive. I see a lot of new posts. Only few are sceptical so far.I found one post today that already have 26 thousand shares just today. It usually triples in two more days. http://www.sciencealert.com/independent-scientists-confirm-that-the-impossible-em-drive-produces-thrustThis actually may hit major news. Dr. BagelBites dont get eaten by the newspaper guys there. We would surely miss you.Here is that sceptical article. It is sceptical but actualy have over 18 thousands shares already and 2 thousand plus visitors just this hour. http://io9.com/no-german-scientists-have-not-confirmed-the-impossibl-1720573809Great just what we don't need an invasion of the believers & sceptics again.
Internet is really getting wild about the latest development about the EmDrive. I see a lot of new posts. Only few are sceptical so far.I found one post today that already have 26 thousand shares just today. It usually triples in two more days. http://www.sciencealert.com/independent-scientists-confirm-that-the-impossible-em-drive-produces-thrustThis actually may hit major news. Dr. BagelBites dont get eaten by the newspaper guys there. We would surely miss you.Here is that sceptical article. It is sceptical but actualy have over 18 thousands shares already and 2 thousand plus visitors just this hour. http://io9.com/no-german-scientists-have-not-confirmed-the-impossibl-1720573809
Quote from: Star One on 07/28/2015 07:49 pmQuote from: Chrochne on 07/28/2015 07:37 pm...Here is that sceptical article. It is sceptical but actualy have over 18 thousands shares already and 2 thousand plus visitors just this hour. http://io9.com/no-german-scientists-have-not-confirmed-the-impossibl-1720573809Great just what we don't need an invasion of the believers & sceptics again.I hear you there Mr. Star One Sean Caroll reaction to latest development http://www.outerplaces.com/science/item/9455-impossible-and-controversial-em-drive-can-get-us-to-the-moon-in-four-hours“My insight is that the EMDrive is complete crap and a waste of time,” said Carroll. “Right there in the abstract this paper says, ‘Our test campaign can not confirm or refute the claims of the EMDrive’, so I’m not sure what the news is. I’m going to spend my time thinking about ideas that don’t violate conservation of momentum.”
Quote from: Chrochne on 07/28/2015 07:37 pm...Here is that sceptical article. It is sceptical but actualy have over 18 thousands shares already and 2 thousand plus visitors just this hour. http://io9.com/no-german-scientists-have-not-confirmed-the-impossibl-1720573809Great just what we don't need an invasion of the believers & sceptics again.
...Here is that sceptical article. It is sceptical but actualy have over 18 thousands shares already and 2 thousand plus visitors just this hour. http://io9.com/no-german-scientists-have-not-confirmed-the-impossibl-1720573809
...I'll just throw this idea out, as I have several times before: Why not try mounting heating coils inside the waveguide and cavity then apply a few hundred Watts of DC power to them. Is a force detected? Does it continue after the power is turned off? I am sorry if I am starting to sound like a broken record. but has anyone done this?
Quote from: SeeShells on 07/28/2015 07:23 pmQuote from: X_RaY on 07/28/2015 07:09 pmQuote from: SeeShells on 07/28/2015 06:39 pmQuote from: X_RaY on 07/28/2015 06:10 pm@Rodal1.Thanks for verification (picture Tajmar device yesterday @4,556GHz).My calculation was verry close 2. impressing picture of the fractal antennas... like thatBut for what is that good in the frustrum? This type of antenna will be use to get large bandwide, for multiband mobilephones for example. We don't need large BW.What is need is ~constand impedance match in the possible drift BW if a high Q is recommend like discussed before? 3."3) We also verified that one cannot excite Transverse Electric (TE) modes with a dipole antenna, regardless of orientation or placement in the truncated cone, the mode excited by a dipole antenna is a Transverse Magnetic (TM) mode."At the center it doesn't work.I remember that is possible to get TE resonance with a simple dipole:(rfmwguy posted something similar / plans for his frustrum...) It's most simple for TE01p. At this mode there are currents in Phi vector inside the metallic endplate, the strongest at the radius who the besselfunktion is maximal.Place a dipole at this radius close to the plate, E-field vector in Phi direction(tangetial to the radius).The result will be the correct mode if the cone has the correct length to catch that eigenfrequence.Something similar is possible at the sidewall, one have to activate currents in the right direction for the mode in the wall..of course one need a full 3D modelvery interesting posts today too much to read all after long day full of work Very nice post X_Ray. I was thinking of potentially using a 1/10 wave loop (like the square one I posted as it could be modeled) to excite a TE mode center in either center plate. The bandwidth should be around 20-30 mhz. Thoughts?Also won't a loop on the side wall excite either mode depending on orientation? Would love your feedback.Shellgarbage wording.Can you repost a link to your setup please?I'm a little tired today, don't wanna search...I think up to a quater wavelength will work like you want without bigger problems.couple the end of the loop direct to the copper( matching capacitor will also work between loops end and copper)Picture:In general,pace the antenna in one of the positions like in the sketch.Mode Shape TE012 Length 0.24 big diameter 0.201 small diameter 0.1492 cone 1/2 angle 6.159 In MetersGet something cold with ice, prop you feet up and relax. Sounds like a yucky day. Thanks for doing this after a hard day.ShellI get 2,449GHz for TE012 with this dimensions(flat end plates) surface conductivity is lower in your case(perforated copper), the antenna also cause a tiny frequency shift, it will be a little less than the eigenfrequency ~10...100MHz lower is possible i thinkTry it, we will see. Can you measure S11 when your build is done? I'm curious about the data. 2,4490862069GHz
Quote from: X_RaY on 07/28/2015 07:09 pmQuote from: SeeShells on 07/28/2015 06:39 pmQuote from: X_RaY on 07/28/2015 06:10 pm@Rodal1.Thanks for verification (picture Tajmar device yesterday @4,556GHz).My calculation was verry close 2. impressing picture of the fractal antennas... like thatBut for what is that good in the frustrum? This type of antenna will be use to get large bandwide, for multiband mobilephones for example. We don't need large BW.What is need is ~constand impedance match in the possible drift BW if a high Q is recommend like discussed before? 3."3) We also verified that one cannot excite Transverse Electric (TE) modes with a dipole antenna, regardless of orientation or placement in the truncated cone, the mode excited by a dipole antenna is a Transverse Magnetic (TM) mode."At the center it doesn't work.I remember that is possible to get TE resonance with a simple dipole:(rfmwguy posted something similar / plans for his frustrum...) It's most simple for TE01p. At this mode there are currents in Phi vector inside the metallic endplate, the strongest at the radius who the besselfunktion is maximal.Place a dipole at this radius close to the plate, E-field vector in Phi direction(tangetial to the radius).The result will be the correct mode if the cone has the correct length to catch that eigenfrequence.Something similar is possible at the sidewall, one have to activate currents in the right direction for the mode in the wall..of course one need a full 3D modelvery interesting posts today too much to read all after long day full of work Very nice post X_Ray. I was thinking of potentially using a 1/10 wave loop (like the square one I posted as it could be modeled) to excite a TE mode center in either center plate. The bandwidth should be around 20-30 mhz. Thoughts?Also won't a loop on the side wall excite either mode depending on orientation? Would love your feedback.Shellgarbage wording.Can you repost a link to your setup please?I'm a little tired today, don't wanna search...I think up to a quater wavelength will work like you want without bigger problems.couple the end of the loop direct to the copper( matching capacitor will also work between loops end and copper)Picture:In general,pace the antenna in one of the positions like in the sketch.Mode Shape TE012 Length 0.24 big diameter 0.201 small diameter 0.1492 cone 1/2 angle 6.159 In MetersGet something cold with ice, prop you feet up and relax. Sounds like a yucky day. Thanks for doing this after a hard day.Shell
Quote from: SeeShells on 07/28/2015 06:39 pmQuote from: X_RaY on 07/28/2015 06:10 pm@Rodal1.Thanks for verification (picture Tajmar device yesterday @4,556GHz).My calculation was verry close 2. impressing picture of the fractal antennas... like thatBut for what is that good in the frustrum? This type of antenna will be use to get large bandwide, for multiband mobilephones for example. We don't need large BW.What is need is ~constand impedance match in the possible drift BW if a high Q is recommend like discussed before? 3."3) We also verified that one cannot excite Transverse Electric (TE) modes with a dipole antenna, regardless of orientation or placement in the truncated cone, the mode excited by a dipole antenna is a Transverse Magnetic (TM) mode."At the center it doesn't work.I remember that is possible to get TE resonance with a simple dipole:(rfmwguy posted something similar / plans for his frustrum...) It's most simple for TE01p. At this mode there are currents in Phi vector inside the metallic endplate, the strongest at the radius who the besselfunktion is maximal.Place a dipole at this radius close to the plate, E-field vector in Phi direction(tangetial to the radius).The result will be the correct mode if the cone has the correct length to catch that eigenfrequence.Something similar is possible at the sidewall, one have to activate currents in the right direction for the mode in the wall..of course one need a full 3D modelvery interesting posts today too much to read all after long day full of work Very nice post X_Ray. I was thinking of potentially using a 1/10 wave loop (like the square one I posted as it could be modeled) to excite a TE mode center in either center plate. The bandwidth should be around 20-30 mhz. Thoughts?Also won't a loop on the side wall excite either mode depending on orientation? Would love your feedback.Shellgarbage wording.Can you repost a link to your setup please?I'm a little tired today, don't wanna search...I think up to a quater wavelength will work like you want without bigger problems.couple the end of the loop direct to the copper( matching capacitor will also work between loops end and copper)Picture:In general,pace the antenna in one of the positions like in the sketch.
Quote from: X_RaY on 07/28/2015 06:10 pm@Rodal1.Thanks for verification (picture Tajmar device yesterday @4,556GHz).My calculation was verry close 2. impressing picture of the fractal antennas... like thatBut for what is that good in the frustrum? This type of antenna will be use to get large bandwide, for multiband mobilephones for example. We don't need large BW.What is need is ~constand impedance match in the possible drift BW if a high Q is recommend like discussed before? 3."3) We also verified that one cannot excite Transverse Electric (TE) modes with a dipole antenna, regardless of orientation or placement in the truncated cone, the mode excited by a dipole antenna is a Transverse Magnetic (TM) mode."At the center it doesn't work.I remember that is possible to get TE resonance with a simple dipole:(rfmwguy posted something similar / plans for his frustrum...) It's most simple for TE01p. At this mode there are currents in Phi vector inside the metallic endplate, the strongest at the radius who the besselfunktion is maximal.Place a dipole at this radius close to the plate, E-field vector in Phi direction(tangetial to the radius).The result will be the correct mode if the cone has the correct length to catch that eigenfrequence.Something similar is possible at the sidewall, one have to activate currents in the right direction for the mode in the wall..of course one need a full 3D modelvery interesting posts today too much to read all after long day full of work Very nice post X_Ray. I was thinking of potentially using a 1/10 wave loop (like the square one I posted as it could be modeled) to excite a TE mode center in either center plate. The bandwidth should be around 20-30 mhz. Thoughts?Also won't a loop on the side wall excite either mode depending on orientation? Would love your feedback.Shellgarbage wording.
@Rodal1.Thanks for verification (picture Tajmar device yesterday @4,556GHz).My calculation was verry close 2. impressing picture of the fractal antennas... like thatBut for what is that good in the frustrum? This type of antenna will be use to get large bandwide, for multiband mobilephones for example. We don't need large BW.What is need is ~constand impedance match in the possible drift BW if a high Q is recommend like discussed before? 3."3) We also verified that one cannot excite Transverse Electric (TE) modes with a dipole antenna, regardless of orientation or placement in the truncated cone, the mode excited by a dipole antenna is a Transverse Magnetic (TM) mode."At the center it doesn't work.I remember that is possible to get TE resonance with a simple dipole:(rfmwguy posted something similar / plans for his frustrum...) It's most simple for TE01p. At this mode there are currents in Phi vector inside the metallic endplate, the strongest at the radius who the besselfunktion is maximal.Place a dipole at this radius close to the plate, E-field vector in Phi direction(tangetial to the radius).The result will be the correct mode if the cone has the correct length to catch that eigenfrequence.Something similar is possible at the sidewall, one have to activate currents in the right direction for the mode in the wall..of course one need a full 3D modelvery interesting posts today too much to read all after long day full of work
Quote from: zen-in on 07/28/2015 08:00 pm...I'll just throw this idea out, as I have several times before: Why not try mounting heating coils inside the waveguide and cavity then apply a few hundred Watts of DC power to them. Is a force detected? Does it continue after the power is turned off? I am sorry if I am starting to sound like a broken record. but has anyone done this?This is a good idea.Yang did something like that but just to measure temperatures. To my knowledge he did not report any forces (or report putting it in the force measuring device like that)SeeShells: could you try this idea in your experiment ?
In case anyone was unaware (like me!), there is a livesteam available:http://livestream.com/AIAAvideo/PropEnergy2015
Quote from: Chrochne on 07/28/2015 07:53 pmQuote from: Star One on 07/28/2015 07:49 pmQuote from: Chrochne on 07/28/2015 07:37 pm...Here is that sceptical article. It is sceptical but actualy have over 18 thousands shares already and 2 thousand plus visitors just this hour. http://io9.com/no-german-scientists-have-not-confirmed-the-impossibl-1720573809Great just what we don't need an invasion of the believers & sceptics again.I hear you there Mr. Star One Sean Caroll reaction to latest development http://www.outerplaces.com/science/item/9455-impossible-and-controversial-em-drive-can-get-us-to-the-moon-in-four-hours“My insight is that the EMDrive is complete crap and a waste of time,” said Carroll. “Right there in the abstract this paper says, ‘Our test campaign can not confirm or refute the claims of the EMDrive’, so I’m not sure what the news is. I’m going to spend my time thinking about ideas that don’t violate conservation of momentum.”I'll just throw this idea out, as I have several times before: Why not try mounting heating coils inside the waveguide and cavity then apply a few hundred Watts of DC power to them. Is a force detected? Does it continue after the power is turned off? I am sorry if I am starting to sound like a broken record. but has anyone done this?
Quote from: Left Field on 07/28/2015 08:07 pmIn case anyone was unaware (like me!), there is a livesteam available:http://livestream.com/AIAAvideo/PropEnergy2015Does not apply to Tajmar's and Fearn's sessions, unfortunately, I believe.
So Tajmar previously NULLIFIED the claims of Prof. Woodward according to this quote ?:QuoteMartin Tajmar did an independent series of replication experiments on work performed by James Woodward (the ‘Woodward effect’), while working at the Austrian Research Center’s department of electric propulsion physics. While that work produced a null result,
Martin Tajmar did an independent series of replication experiments on work performed by James Woodward (the ‘Woodward effect’), while working at the Austrian Research Center’s department of electric propulsion physics. While that work produced a null result,
Quote from: X_RaY on 07/28/2015 07:39 pmQuote from: SeeShells on 07/28/2015 07:23 pmQuote from: X_RaY on 07/28/2015 07:09 pmQuote from: SeeShells on 07/28/2015 06:39 pmQuote from: X_RaY on 07/28/2015 06:10 pm@Rodal1.Thanks for verification (picture Tajmar device yesterday @4,556GHz).My calculation was verry close 2. impressing picture of the fractal antennas... like thatBut for what is that good in the frustrum? This type of antenna will be use to get large bandwide, for multiband mobilephones for example. We don't need large BW.What is need is ~constand impedance match in the possible drift BW if a high Q is recommend like discussed before? 3."3) We also verified that one cannot excite Transverse Electric (TE) modes with a dipole antenna, regardless of orientation or placement in the truncated cone, the mode excited by a dipole antenna is a Transverse Magnetic (TM) mode."At the center it doesn't work.I remember that is possible to get TE resonance with a simple dipole:(rfmwguy posted something similar / plans for his frustrum...) It's most simple for TE01p. At this mode there are currents in Phi vector inside the metallic endplate, the strongest at the radius who the besselfunktion is maximal.Place a dipole at this radius close to the plate, E-field vector in Phi direction(tangetial to the radius).The result will be the correct mode if the cone has the correct length to catch that eigenfrequence.Something similar is possible at the sidewall, one have to activate currents in the right direction for the mode in the wall..of course one need a full 3D modelvery interesting posts today too much to read all after long day full of work Very nice post X_Ray. I was thinking of potentially using a 1/10 wave loop (like the square one I posted as it could be modeled) to excite a TE mode center in either center plate. The bandwidth should be around 20-30 mhz. Thoughts?Also won't a loop on the side wall excite either mode depending on orientation? Would love your feedback.Shellgarbage wording.Can you repost a link to your setup please?I'm a little tired today, don't wanna search...I think up to a quater wavelength will work like you want without bigger problems.couple the end of the loop direct to the copper( matching capacitor will also work between loops end and copper)Picture:In general,pace the antenna in one of the positions like in the sketch.Mode Shape TE012 Length 0.24 big diameter 0.201 small diameter 0.1492 cone 1/2 angle 6.159 In MetersGet something cold with ice, prop you feet up and relax. Sounds like a yucky day. Thanks for doing this after a hard day.ShellI get 2,449GHz for TE012 with this dimensions(flat end plates) surface conductivity is lower in your case(perforated copper), the antenna also cause a tiny frequency shift, it will be a little less than the eigenfrequency ~10...100MHz lower is possible i thinkTry it, we will see. Can you measure S11 when your build is done? I'm curious about the data. 2,4490862069GHzYes, I have a VNA and a neat little 3Ghz SA that's also a USB. I plan on posting pictures and data for everyone to pick over and comment.