Sorry it is really depressing to read these statements. Dark matter and inflation theory are the opposite of supporting that assertion. They highlight exactly that scientists do not just curve fit and then ignore the search for an underlying explanation. This is precisely why they are major topics. Only MOD conspiracy theorists think of science that way. "Oh, they just called it dark matter because they don't want to think about it any more."
Maybe you guys have just not understood the context. The context is could astrophysicists see aliens and think they are just seeing physics? Just tweek their understanding of what they expect to see and call it nature?This misses the fantastic effort that physicists make to confirm that physics works the same everywhere, that the behaviour of stars across space and observable history matches physics that can be confirmed right here on earth.
This misses the absurdity of physicists, not only being incurious of the inconsistency with physics on earth, also being incurious of their tweeks not being uniform across space and time, but having an origin at a specific point and a specific time after the universe had produced the elements necessary for chemistry, and then radiated outward from there.
No, apart from aliens as god, existing before atoms and everywhere after, physicists absolutely would NOT observe alien anomalies and just tweek physics to accept them.
Or has cosmology already proved advanced alien civs do not exist, in which case we can cancel SETI?
The whole "we should be able to see type II civilizations" thing is sooooo 20th century. Even the argument for Dyson spheres seems weird when you imagine working nuclear fusion. Why bother with bottling a star if you can engineer an artificial one that is better?
Quote from: KelvinZero on 04/13/2018 03:12 pmSorry it is really depressing to read these statements. Dark matter and inflation theory are the opposite of supporting that assertion. They highlight exactly that scientists do not just curve fit and then ignore the search for an underlying explanation. This is precisely why they are major topics. Only MOD conspiracy theorists think of science that way. "Oh, they just called it dark matter because they don't want to think about it any more."I have had discussions with "MOD conspiracy theorists" and the like in the new physics section. The people on this thread are not in any way making comments like those people. Your comparison is unfair at the minimum. Your assertions go beyond what is actually known and take current best guesses as gospel in areas where physicists who study those areas will clearly admit we aren't 100% sure what is going on.
You apparently don't understand the context. They have found things that vary with time that are also difficult to explain why they vary with time. That is what accelerating expansion of the universe is. You are making unsupported assumptions about what alien presence would look like, including whether it would be detectable at all. These assumptions are the most unscientific part of this entire conversation.
Quote from: meberbs on 04/13/2018 03:45 pmQuote from: KelvinZero on 04/13/2018 03:12 pmSorry it is really depressing to read these statements. Dark matter and inflation theory are the opposite of supporting that assertion. They highlight exactly that scientists do not just curve fit and then ignore the search for an underlying explanation. This is precisely why they are major topics. Only MOD conspiracy theorists think of science that way. "Oh, they just called it dark matter because they don't want to think about it any more."I have had discussions with "MOD conspiracy theorists" and the like in the new physics section. The people on this thread are not in any way making comments like those people. Your comparison is unfair at the minimum. Your assertions go beyond what is actually known and take current best guesses as gospel in areas where physicists who study those areas will clearly admit we aren't 100% sure what is going on.I have been careful in my claims and explanations.
Postulating superior power sources only increases the potential of exponential expansion to make it's presence blatantly obvious, increasing the problem of the Dyson Dilemma.
You haven't given me points I can address. You have not dealt with any of my points. You are asserting the onus is on me to prove a universe full of aliens could not happen to exactly match and empty one. This implies a total lack of context.
This is the context of what I am arguing:* The Dyson Dilemma does not rest on the assumption that solar power is likely.
* Scientists are highly unlikely to accidentally fold evidence of aliens into a tweeked physics.. and dark matter and inflation are examples of NOT dismissing unknowns, but FOCUSING on them.
Im prepared to strongly argue that aliens would almost certainly vary parameters, that a universe that merely appears empty would be like rolling snake eyes 100 times in a row, but the wording here suggests you think the context is a claim that aliens can be disproven.
The context is that the Dyson Dilemma is not based on the assumption of solar power.. and surely never was. That would be expecting many decently intelligent people to show zero common sense.
Why exactly do aliens need this level of power? If Someone here figured out how to build a zero point energy source out of banana peels and an old toaster tomorrow, what would we do with it?