Author Topic: Perigee Aerospace  (Read 20162 times)

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Perigee Aerospace
« on: 09/30/2019 12:16 pm »
This is a South Korean small launch vehicle developer that has pretty much flown under the radar. Unfortunately, their web site is not working for me.

https://www.rocketpunch.com/companies/perigeeaerospace
https://www.linkedin.com/in/yoonshin0725/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/perigee-rocket-llc/about/
http://perigee.cc/

Today it was announced that Perigee Aerospace will be flying their vehicle, Blue Whale 1, from a facility to be built by Southern Launch at Whaler's Bay here in South Australia. Their vehicle is only 8.5 m long, 1.8 t launch mass and carries a 48.5 kg payload to SSO. Launch price is $2.3M or $47,400/kg. First launch is scheduled for the end of 2020. The vehicle has two stages using liquid propellant. The first stage engine uses a staged combustion cycle. Construction is carbon fibre. The engine performance curve shows two curves, one with a sea level Isp of 2480 m/s and 2840 m/s vacuum and the other with a sea level Isp of 3020 m/s and 3260 m/s vacuum. Although the propellant combination has not been announced, the second set of numbers is indicative of staged combustion hydrogen peroxide with a high performance fuel, e.g., C10H16 Syntin. From pixel counting, I estimate the vehicle diameter to be 0.764 m, or likely 0.75 m. They have major funding from Samsung Venture Investments and LB Investment (a subsidiary of LG).

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/breaking-news/deal-signed-for-sa-rocket-launches/news-story/920584fe877fd39599054ac48fdb9671
https://southernlaunch.space/news

Hah! Their video from May this year showed they had already picked South Australia for the launch site!

« Last Edit: 09/30/2019 12:54 pm by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline PM3

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #1 on: 10/24/2019 12:05 am »
https://spacenews.com/backed-by-samsung-south-korean-startup-perigee-aims-for-2020-maiden-launch/

Quote
A little-known Korean startup backed by Samsung is preparing to launch a small orbital rocket in July.
...
Blue Whale 1’s maiden flight will carry a dummy payload to prove the two-stage rocket works, Shin said. The next launch will send a 50-kilogram payload into orbit in early 2021 if not sooner, he said. The company is offering launches for $2 million.

Perigee Aerospace plans to launch from the upcoming Whalers Way Orbital Launch Complex that another company, Southern Launch, is building on Australia’s southern coastline. Shin said the launch site will be ready in time for Blue Whale 1’s July debut.

So two launches announced for the "Blue Whale 1" from Southern Launch:

- test flight in July 2020
- operational launch NLT early 2021
"Never, never be afraid of the truth." -- Jim Bridenstine

Offline CameronD

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #2 on: 10/24/2019 12:12 am »
https://spacenews.com/backed-by-samsung-south-korean-startup-perigee-aims-for-2020-maiden-launch/

Quote
A little-known Korean startup backed by Samsung is preparing to launch a small orbital rocket in July.
...
Blue Whale 1’s maiden flight will carry a dummy payload to prove the two-stage rocket works, Shin said. The next launch will send a 50-kilogram payload into orbit in early 2021 if not sooner, he said. The company is offering launches for $2 million.

Perigee Aerospace plans to launch from the upcoming Whalers Way Orbital Launch Complex that another company, Southern Launch, is building on Australia’s southern coastline. Shin said the launch site will be ready in time for Blue Whale 1’s July debut.

So two launches announced for the "Blue Whale 1" from Southern Launch:

- test flight in July 2020
- operational launch NLT early 2021

Unfortunately, as Yoon Shin says, whether or not the timetable is realistic is kinda out of the hands of either company given the pile of regulatory hurdles to be overcome.
« Last Edit: 10/24/2019 12:14 am by CameronD »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #3 on: 01/31/2020 12:44 am »
Perigee Aerospace will have a table at the next South Australian Space Forum on 19 February. Some performance data on their stage 1 vehicle. Engine uses oxidiser rich staged combustion to achieve 348 s Isp in vacuum! Whaler's Bay launch site allows inclinations from 58°. Dry mass is only 80 kg.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline vaporcobra

Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #4 on: 01/31/2020 01:18 am »
Perigee Aerospace will have a table at the next South Australian Space Forum on 19 February. Some performance data on their stage 1 vehicle. Engine uses oxidiser rich staged combustion to achieve 348 s Isp in vacuum! Whaler's Bay launch site allows inclinations from 58°. Dry mass is only 80 kg.

Full image via their (extremely sparse but functioning) website :)

Offline gmbnz

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #5 on: 02/01/2020 01:49 am »
Length = 1.8m
Width = 0.76m?
That can't be right, the aspect ratio is crazy.

And a s1 dry mas of 80kg?
Electron has 3 times the payload but has a s1 dry mass of 950kg: https://www.spacelaunchreport.com/electron.html#components

Something doesn't add up!

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #6 on: 02/01/2020 01:57 am »
Length = 1.8m
Width = 0.76m?
That can't be right, the aspect ratio is crazy.

I think that's the length of the payload fairing.
« Last Edit: 02/01/2020 01:59 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline jbenton

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #7 on: 02/01/2020 02:01 am »
Length = 1.8m
Width = 0.76m?
That can't be right, the aspect ratio is crazy.

I think that's the length of the payload fairing.

It has to be. The rocket in the picture you posted is much longer - maybe 10m? I'm not sure that I'm "eyeballing it" very well.

Offline CameronD

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #8 on: 02/21/2020 12:21 am »
Length = 1.8m
Width = 0.76m?
That can't be right, the aspect ratio is crazy.

I think that's the length of the payload fairing.

It has to be. The rocket in the picture you posted is much longer - maybe 10m? I'm not sure that I'm "eyeballing it" very well.

Perigee had a 1:1 scale banner showing the full-size rocket hanging from the ceiling right next to their stand at the Adelaide Space Forum.  Even  though it's a "small" rocket, it certainly looks impressive when seen like that!

From the specs handed out on the day it is:
Length = 8.5m
Width = 0.76m
Gross takeoff mass = 1,790kg
Payload to 500km SSO = 50kg
Payload to 500km LEO = 63kg

With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline gmbnz

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #9 on: 02/21/2020 09:30 am »
Length = 1.8m
Width = 0.76m?
That can't be right, the aspect ratio is crazy.

I think that's the length of the payload fairing.

It has to be. The rocket in the picture you posted is much longer - maybe 10m? I'm not sure that I'm "eyeballing it" very well.

Perigee had a 1:1 scale banner showing the full-size rocket hanging from the ceiling right next to their stand at the Adelaide Space Forum.  Even  though it's a "small" rocket, it certainly looks impressive when seen like that!

From the specs handed out on the day it is:
Length = 8.5m
Width = 0.76m
Gross takeoff mass = 1,790kg
Payload to 500km SSO = 50kg
Payload to 500km LEO = 63kg

Ah yes I see. The slides do also mention the 8.5m length.

However... the payload doesn't make much sense.
Falcon 9: 23T payload and 550T mass: ratio is 4.2% (that's for Full Thrust version, V1 was 3.1%)
Minataur I: 580kg and 36200 - 1.6% (solid)
Electron: 225kg and 12,500kg: ratio is 1.8%
SS-520-5: 4kg and 2600kg - 0.15% (solid)
In other words small rockets are of course worse than big rockets since things like avionics are just as heavy, not to mention the whole volume vs surface area -> mass thing.

I'll admit there are fewer small rockets to compare, but if you look at the Shavit, Safir, Diamant, or Scout - which are at least at the smaller end of the market - their payload mass fractions are still pretty poor. Of course quite a few of them are ICBMs painted in civilian colours but still: what magic do Perigee have up their sleeves which will give them a 3.5% payload mass fraction, especially considering they are so much lighter than the others? Seems pretty optimistic...

Slightly off topic, but there's a great breakdown of the SS-520-5 here
https://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4120&context=smallsat

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #10 on: 02/22/2020 03:21 am »
The reason for the high mass fraction of 3.5% is because they are using LOX/LNG which has higher Isp than those other vehicles and that they are using staged combustion on their engines!
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline ncb1397

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #11 on: 02/22/2020 06:48 am »
Length = 1.8m
Width = 0.76m?
That can't be right, the aspect ratio is crazy.

I think that's the length of the payload fairing.

It has to be. The rocket in the picture you posted is much longer - maybe 10m? I'm not sure that I'm "eyeballing it" very well.

Perigee had a 1:1 scale banner showing the full-size rocket hanging from the ceiling right next to their stand at the Adelaide Space Forum.  Even  though it's a "small" rocket, it certainly looks impressive when seen like that!

From the specs handed out on the day it is:
Length = 8.5m
Width = 0.76m
Gross takeoff mass = 1,790kg
Payload to 500km SSO = 50kg
Payload to 500km LEO = 63kg

Ah yes I see. The slides do also mention the 8.5m length.

However... the payload doesn't make much sense.
Falcon 9: 23T payload and 550T mass: ratio is 4.2% (that's for Full Thrust version, V1 was 3.1%)
Minataur I: 580kg and 36200 - 1.6% (solid)
Electron: 225kg and 12,500kg: ratio is 1.8%
SS-520-5: 4kg and 2600kg - 0.15% (solid)
In other words small rockets are of course worse than big rockets since things like avionics are just as heavy, not to mention the whole volume vs surface area -> mass thing.

I'll admit there are fewer small rockets to compare, but if you look at the Shavit, Safir, Diamant, or Scout - which are at least at the smaller end of the market - their payload mass fractions are still pretty poor. Of course quite a few of them are ICBMs painted in civilian colours but still: what magic do Perigee have up their sleeves which will give them a 3.5% payload mass fraction, especially considering they are so much lighter than the others? Seems pretty optimistic...

Slightly off topic, but there's a great breakdown of the SS-520-5 here
https://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4120&context=smallsat

They could have thinner structural margins. Electron is pretty darn reliable and that was a priority for Rocket Lab. Of course, that is a trade off. The thinner your structural margins, the worse your structural reliability will be.

Offline john smith 19

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #12 on: 02/22/2020 08:39 am »
The reason for the high mass fraction of 3.5% is because they are using LOX/LNG which has higher Isp than those other vehicles and that they are using staged combustion on their engines!
LOX/LNG certainly increases the Isp. But an SC cycle at this scale is also very sporty.

That sounds pretty tough.
MCT ITS BFR SS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFSC engined CFRP SS structure A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of Earth & Mars atmospheric flight.First flight to Mars by end of 2022 TBC. T&C apply. Trust nothing. Run your own #s "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" R. Simberg."Competitve" means cheaper ¬cheap SCramjet proposed 1956. First +ve thrust 2004. US R&D spend to date > $10Bn. #deployed designs. Zero.

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #13 on: 02/23/2020 09:11 am »
Even considering LOxCH4 their GLOW mass is off by a factor of 10.
I think I can prove this with a back of the envelope calculation.
Let's try to calculate propellant mass inside a cylinder.
Let's assume: tank diameter 0,75m, Tank length 6m, LOxCH4 density 0,82 mT/M3.
Mprop=(D^2.0,25.pi.H).d  (0,75^2.0,25.pi.6).0,82 = 2,17mT.
 :-[ I forgot the 0.25 factor. I've changed the calculation.
With a tank length of 4,5m I get a propellant mass of 1,63mT, this leaves 160kg for the 50kg payload and rocket. They claim really low stage empty mass, thus their mf is very low. Still I think they are off by a factor of 2-4.
« Last Edit: 02/23/2020 10:58 am by Rik ISS-fan »

Offline Skyrocket

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #14 on: 06/01/2021 07:40 am »
Does anyone know, if Perigee Aerospace still exists? I haven't heard anything from them for about a year or so. And their website only returns "Error 503".

Online Fmedici

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #15 on: 06/01/2021 11:28 am »
Does anyone know, if Perigee Aerospace still exists? I haven't heard anything from them for about a year or so. And their website only returns "Error 503".

The link on Wikipedia no longer works but their website still exists. I don't know about the company per se though.

Offline space_snap828

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #16 on: 06/01/2021 12:00 pm »
Does anyone know, if Perigee Aerospace still exists? I haven't heard anything from them for about a year or so. And their website only returns "Error 503".

The link on Wikipedia no longer works but their website still exists. I don't know about the company per se though.
I'm in Korea and I'll be at KAIST in a couple of weeks. Looks like they have a test facility there, I can try and check it out!

Offline Mahurora

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #17 on: 06/05/2021 03:37 pm »
They do still exist and actually have secured their series A (around $10 million) in 2019 from Korea Development Bank(gov.), Samsung VC Investment, Mirae Asset VC Investment (Mirae Asset, one of the biggest finance company in Korea), etc. (Some news also talks about them securing series B as well but their own update doesn't mention it)

Also expanding their engineering staff rn. Currently there are just short of 40 staff members.

They had their first successful ignition test, sustained thrust test (time unspecified) and turbopump test last year
« Last Edit: 06/05/2021 03:53 pm by Mahurora »

Online Fmedici

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #18 on: 06/05/2021 05:31 pm »
They do still exist and actually have secured their series A (around $10 million) in 2019 from Korea Development Bank(gov.), Samsung VC Investment, Mirae Asset VC Investment (Mirae Asset, one of the biggest finance company in Korea), etc. (Some news also talks about them securing series B as well but their own update doesn't mention it)

Also expanding their engineering staff rn. Currently there are just short of 40 staff members.

They had their first successful ignition test, sustained thrust test (time unspecified) and turbopump test last year

Any estimate about when their Blue Whale 1 will have its maiden flight? The only news about that date back to 2019 and talked about an "early 2021" maiden flight, but I haven't find anything more recent about that

Offline Mahurora

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #19 on: 06/05/2021 09:06 pm »
It's been delayed to the 2nd half of this year. Some sources claim July to be the date of maiden launch but I've gotta doubt that.

Also, digging more about their recent infos I've found that they've secured additional funding from KDB and others last december as well.

Offline Mahurora

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #20 on: 11/03/2021 11:38 pm »
https://www.joongang.co.kr/article/24095584#home

Several news from July.

Perigee is cooperating deeply with KAIST and is using their combustion testing facilities since last year.

First launch of test vehicle by the end of this year, within Korea as opposed to what was known before(launching from Southern Launch's WWOLC in South Australia). 3 test launches planned before entering service.

36 employees, majority from KAIST and some from KAI. KARI and KAIST engineers regarding rocket engines are on advisory role.



fotos of the facility and the engine test.
« Last Edit: 11/04/2021 12:26 am by Mahurora »

Offline Yiosie

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #21 on: 11/04/2021 08:18 pm »
New Science Observation Rocket Set to be Tested on Jeju by Year’s End [dated Oct. 27]

Quote
Following the launch of South Korea’s first homegrown space rocket Nuri, another challenge for space will be made on Jeju Island.

Jeju’s provincial government said Tuesday that the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology (KAIST) will test the launch of a science observation rocket in Hangyeong-myeon township on the island to commemorate its 50th anniversary by the end of this year.

The test is aimed at tracing the trajectory flight of a small liquid-propelled rocket with a length of 3 meters and a diameter of 20 centimeters.

Hankyeong-myeon is an ideal site for rocket launches since it is located outside the airspace of private airports and military bases.

This is confirmed to be Perigee's suborbital test rocket:

‘누리호’만 있나? 제주서 연내 민간 우주로켓 1호 쏜다 (Is there only 'Nuri-ho'? Jeju to launch civilian space rocket 1 within this year) [dated Oct. 24]

Google translate (bolds mine):

Quote
As the Korean launch vehicle Nuri (KSLV-II), made with pure domestic technology, achieved 'half success', while foreign media are paying attention to our rapid development of space science and technology, the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology (KAIST), together with Perigee Aerospace (hereinafter referred to as Perigee), a rocket-making startup created by undergraduate students, is planning to launch a rocket from Jeju in December to mark the 50th anniversary of the school's opening this year.

<snip>

Dowa and KAIST selected Yongsu-ri, Hangyeong-myeon, Jeju-si as the launch site, and completed discussions with residents.

Researchers from the Department of Aerospace Engineering at KAIST are stationed in Yongsu-ri Village to prepare for launch. The final launch test is expected in early December.

Perigee is a start-up company that aims to develop an ultra-small space launch vehicle. CEO Shin Dong-yoon is a 24-year-old fourth-year undergraduate, but he has already been in business for 6 years.

This launch is an experiment in ballistic flight of a small liquid-propelled rocket 3m in length and 20cm in diameter. Ultimately, the first liquid methane-based test projectile will be launched into space at an altitude of 100 km or higher.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #22 on: 11/05/2021 05:03 am »
Here's some images of the sounding rocket.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline CameronD

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #23 on: 01/09/2022 10:33 pm »
Posted by Yoon Shin on LinkedIn:
Quote
2021.12.29.  Blue Whale 0.1 launch @ Jeju Island
Perigee Aerospace Inc.

Rocket failed to follow an intented flight trajectory due to strong wind, and an on-board AFTS terminated the flight.

It was an unsuccessful attempt but the team was able to test important hardware to be used on our upcoming orbital launch vehicle (engine, cryo valves, flight computer, telemetry, ground software… etc.)

Whilst they may not have reached the altitude they were targeting, successfully leaving the launch tower on the first try marks really good progress!
« Last Edit: 01/09/2022 10:39 pm by CameronD »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline Yiosie

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #24 on: 01/09/2022 11:17 pm »
More information on the Blue Whale 0.1 launch:

Sudden gust of winds foils launch of sounding rocket built by rocket start-up [dated Dec. 29, 2021]

Quote
In a remote coastal area on the southern resort island of Jeju on December 29, Perigee Aerospace launched a test rocket with a length of 3.2 meters, a diameter of 19 centimeters, and a weight of 51 kilograms, using ethanol and liquid oxygen as fuel. It was aimed at building experience and checking the combustion of a liquid propulsion engine and the performance of pre-set flight and trajectory, communication, and navigation devices.

After flying for several seconds, the suborbital rocket called "Blue Whale 0.1" came down drawing a trajectory like a shell and fell into the sea with its parachute open. After the rocket was recovered by a civilian fishing boat, Perigee Aerospace CEO Shin Dong-yoon admitted failure, saying the rocket lost its track due to a gust of wind that activated the rocket's automatic flight suspension system.

"At the moment the rocket took off, there was a much stronger gust than expected," Shin told reporters. "The wind sent it flying off course and the automatic flight suspension system stopped its engine." However, Shin was not totally disappointed, saying the failed launch conducted in collaboration with the Korea Advanced Institute of Science & Technology (KAIST provided a good experience.

Offline Kryten

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #25 on: 01/10/2022 04:27 pm »
 It superficially looks a lot like Interstellar Technology's Momo.

Offline CameronD

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #26 on: 02/11/2022 03:58 am »
From LinkedIn:
Quote
Perigee LOX-LNG upper stage engine prototypes being test fired at rocket development facility in Daejeon, Republic of Korea.

Here, two different test configurations are shown:
First one is a copper calorimeteric chamber to characterize injector and propellant supply performance.
The second one is a flight-like ablative chamber to characterize long duration performance and temperature variations.

Note the plume shapes are different between the two, as the ablative version has a larger nozzle exit angle to connect a nozzle extension.
« Last Edit: 02/11/2022 03:59 am by CameronD »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline CameronD

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #27 on: 03/03/2022 12:23 am »
Sparks fly!  From LinkedIn:
Quote
With static fire completed, we're now preparing for the 3rd and the last flight of the BW-0.1.
Quote
Additionally, this BW0.1v3 vehicle is run by an upgraded flight software with an improved aerodynamic model.
« Last Edit: 03/03/2022 12:24 am by CameronD »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Online Fmedici

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #28 on: 03/03/2022 07:08 am »
I counted only one launch so far, when was the second?

Offline Bean Kenobi

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #29 on: 03/03/2022 08:28 pm »
I counted only one launch so far, when was the second?

Their Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/perigeespace) says Dec. 29th, 2021 was their second launch, not the first one.

Quote
Second flight of the Blue Whale 0.1 🚀
— December 29, 2021.
Rocket failed to follow an intented flight trajectory due to strong wind, and an on-board AFTS terminated the flight.
It was an unsuccessful attempt, but the team was able to test some important hardware for our next test vehicle.

Their Youtube page says their first launch was on Dec. 5th, 2021.



Quote
First flight of the sounding rocket — Dec. 05, 2021.
Jeju launch center, Jeju, Korea
« Last Edit: 03/03/2022 08:34 pm by Bean Kenobi »

Offline CameronD

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #30 on: 04/07/2022 02:12 am »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #31 on: 04/16/2022 07:06 am »
Third flight was launched on 24 March. The video says the first launch was on 9 December 2021.

« Last Edit: 04/16/2022 07:09 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline CameronD

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #32 on: 05/27/2022 07:28 am »
Recently on LinkedIn:

Quote
The perfect propellant tank doesn't exi-

Perigee structure team is testing the propellant tank for the BW-1 upper stage at cryogenic temperature and a maximum expected operating pressure (MEOP).

The upper stage engine is pressure-fed for a simple and robust design. So, the tanks should supply propellants to the engine inlets at about 20 bar (290 psi).

Normally, this kind of high pressure can only be dealt with by a thick-walled pressure vessel. Not to mention they are soooooooooo heavy for launch vehicles.

To reduce the mass, the BW-1 propellant tanks are made of carbon fiber composites. And as the result, the upper stage propellant tank weighs just 20 kg.

There are, however, some technical problems when using CFRP for rocket fuel tanks.

Firstly, the cryogenic temperature of rocket propellants makes most materials brittle and easy to break at a relatively weak shock and vibration. Therefore, it is essential to keep the resin system somewhat “ductile” even at cryogenic temperature.

Secondly, the CFRP (Carbon Fiber Reinforced Plastic) sounds cool but is literally a plastic and even a small shock can trigger fierce combustion in an oxygen-rich environment. To prevent the propellant tanks from becoming a hybrid rocket grain during the flight, special additives were added to increase the activation energy of the wall matrix.

Lastly, joining metallic parts was extremely difficult due to CTE difference between CFRP and metals. A special bonding agent that remains elastic over a wide range of temperature (and should also be LOX-compatible) was developed to attach upper and lower bosses, a common dome, and a LOX transfer tube submerged inside the LNG tank.
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline Senex

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #33 on: 05/28/2022 03:06 pm »
I very much appreciate the video showing the "failures" along the way.  I find the "arc of progress" at least as exciting as the successes!  Congratulations for having the confidence to show a glimpse behind the curtain!

Offline Mahurora

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #34 on: 06/06/2023 09:34 pm »
Hey, another set of updates regarding Perigee. They're now a much proper business with normal accountance and management team as well as investor relations and have expanded to more than 50 staffs of late.

Talking about their SLV development, the Blue Whale 1, seems like its performance goals were greatly revised... guess forum members who were casting doubts about their numbers were indeed right afterall ;)

The earlier Blue Whale 1 performance figures used to be 50kg to 500km SSO with ca. 1.8t of takeoff mass, the takeoff mass being way too small for intended payload mass. They were aiming for the market for the world's smallest and cheapest launcher, but there probably was and now is even less business case for such a niche launcher, considering current launch service market as well as general satellite market trend. Also there's enough competition in this weight class as well lately. Most importantly Innospace's first SLV is supposed to be in this exact payload class so they might want to avoid domestic competition as well.

So now the new BW1 has grown way larger into a 20t SLV able to launch 170kg to 500km SSO, while being able to be reused pad-to-pad ala Falcon 9. Now the question is if they will be able to offer their launch service as cost competitive compared to the likes of Electron and others LVs in the class. They're in the dilemma that their proposed launcher is way more realistic but the cost competitiveness even less certain. They are aiming for $ 3 million launch cost figure, a $ 1 million increase from their initial figures but still around half that of Electron's cheapest offer. Personally, I'm very doubtful if that would be possible even with successful demonstration and application of reusability. The proposed revised-BW1 is already few hundread kilograms heavier dry and significantly heavier in terms of launch mass since it is going to land on its own. I'd say they've got a very tough job to make it cheaper than Rocket Lab's mid-air delivery ignoring other factos in favor of Rocket Lab.

Maybe there's a business case specifically in emerging Asian market since there's a chance that lower launch cost could be possible considering the logistics of satellite transportation to the US or NZ compared to launching them from Korea. Regional competition only comes from Japan's Interstellar Technologies and from Chinese private launchers. The former seems to be at around the same ballpark or a bit ahead in terms of their main engine development progress, whereas with the latter there's a growing geopolitical concerns going forward. Also, Chinese private launchers will have capacity problems considering there's going to be enough domestic demands.

Also, apart from Jeju they've contracted with Esrange Space Center in Sweden as their second launch port. I wonder what went wrong between them and Southern Launch in Whalers Way. I'd guess Southern Launch teaming up with TiSpace to establish ATSpace has to do something with it; they were the first intended customer of Southern Launch afterall. Performance difference betweeen the possible launch from Jeju and Esrange are as below.

For the revised BW1, the new schedules state a test campaign starting from next year and a commercial flight from 2025. We'll see if they'll be able to keep their words.
« Last Edit: 06/07/2023 08:38 pm by Mahurora »

Offline Mahurora

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #35 on: 06/06/2023 09:36 pm »
The new BW1 looks like a mini Falcon 9

Offline Mahurora

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #36 on: 06/06/2023 09:46 pm »
https://www.facebook.com/reel/474801641282189

BW-0.3 hover test. Will be followed by the development of upper stage named BW-0.4 and first stage named BW-0.6.

Offline Mahurora

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #37 on: 06/06/2023 09:49 pm »
They're also building a sea-launch platform called Cetacea 1. From their launch simulations, it seems like they want to go further south into the East China Sea so that they could fly their LV between Miyakojima and Okinawa and avoid further maneuvering.

Offline trimeta

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #38 on: 06/06/2023 09:58 pm »
Their numbers in the table seem to be a bit confused, I don't understand how the rocket could carry 170kg to SSO but only 150kg to unspecified "LEO." Since elsewhere on the site it's said that the rocket carries 150kg to LEO, I'm going to assume the numbers were just swapped in the table and it should be 170kg to "LEO."

Also, while IANARS and I sometimes have gotten in trouble for looking too closely at numbers, I don't understand how the upper-stage engine has just 4.3kN of thrust. For comparison, Electron's vacuum Rutherford has 25.8kN, six times as much. Sure, that's the uprated Electron which carries 33% more payload to SSO, but unless the first stage is doing significantly more of the work, I don't see how the second stage gets the job done.

And if the first stage is doing significantly more of the work...then that's an interesting design decision and I'd be curious what the community thinks about it.

Offline Mahurora

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #39 on: 06/06/2023 10:38 pm »
Their numbers in the table seem to be a bit confused, I don't understand how the rocket could carry 170kg to SSO but only 150kg to unspecified "LEO." Since elsewhere on the site it's said that the rocket carries 150kg to LEO, I'm going to assume the numbers were just swapped in the table and it should be 170kg to "LEO."

Also, while IANARS and I sometimes have gotten in trouble for looking too closely at numbers, I don't understand how the upper-stage engine has just 4.3kN of thrust. For comparison, Electron's vacuum Rutherford has 25.8kN, six times as much. Sure, that's the uprated Electron which carries 33% more payload to SSO, but unless the first stage is doing significantly more of the work, I don't see how the second stage gets the job done.

And if the first stage is doing significantly more of the work...then that's an interesting design decision and I'd be curious what the community thinks about it.
Yeah, I think they (and as a result I) made a mistake on that part.

Talking about 2nd stage thrust, maybe it's a design choice primarily due to cost reasons. Only the first stage is reusable afterall and their second stage is pressure fed. The first stage of BW-1.0 is meant to be more powerful than updated Electron by quite a margin as well. Though, equipped with Blue 1S with less ISP, I'm not sure how that exactly would be possible as well. There's a chance that the second stage dry mass will be lighter but I don't think that the mass difference between Rutherford vacuum and Skyblue will be that great for instance. We'll see if they'll change their LV specification figures
« Last Edit: 06/06/2023 10:48 pm by Mahurora »

Offline Dmitry_V_home

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #40 on: 06/07/2023 05:44 am »
The small thrust of the second stage is probably due to the fact that the payload is launched into orbit by one (but not two) engine actuations. In this case, the optimal thrust of the second stage may be ten times smaller than the thrust of the first stage.

Offline trimeta

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #41 on: 06/07/2023 06:39 pm »
The small thrust of the second stage is probably due to the fact that the payload is launched into orbit by one (but not two) engine actuations. In this case, the optimal thrust of the second stage may be ten times smaller than the thrust of the first stage.
They list first-stage thrust variously as 260kN (in a table saying "Thrust At Liftoff"), 270kN (9 times 30kN, given as their first stage engine thrust in the text), and 306kN (9 times 34kN, the first stage engine's vacuum thrust as given a table). Even for the smallest number, one would expect a second stage thrust of at least 26kN, not 4.3kN (the value they list for second stage vacuum thrust in the table).

Now, it's important to note that their first stage has considerably more thrust than Electron, despite less payload capacity. So my bit about "the first stage doing more of the work" may be the actual answer. But it still seems like an unusual ratio of first to second stage thrust, to me.

Offline Dmitry_V_home

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #42 on: 06/07/2023 07:25 pm »
This is the result of TWR optimization. I've been involved in micro-launcher projects. For them, the optimal ratio of vacuum rods of the first and second stages is usually (30... 40): 1 with a single start of the second stage engine.
When turned on twice, this ratio can be within 10... 20

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #43 on: 06/10/2023 05:04 am »
BW-0.3 hover test. Will be followed by the development of upper stage named BW-0.4 and first stage named BW-0.6.

Was there a Blue Whale 0.2?
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Mahurora

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #44 on: 06/10/2023 11:32 am »
BW-0.3 hover test. Will be followed by the development of upper stage named BW-0.4 and first stage named BW-0.6.

Was there a Blue Whale 0.2?

Their small scale (rather crude) attitude control test rig powered with gas turbine was named BW-0.2

Online catdlr

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #45 on: 11/20/2023 10:59 am »
Cross-post, there is a NOTAM out for a suborbital launch for South Korea, anything to do with this company?

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=59910.msg2542125#msg2542125
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Offline tankat0208

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #46 on: 02/21/2024 01:24 am »

They have released the launch animation of Blue Whale 1, their launch vehicle

Offline CameronD

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Re: Perigee Aerospace
« Reply #47 on: 02/22/2024 10:21 pm »
They have released the launch animation of Blue Whale 1, their launch vehicle

A smaller version of Falcon 9, complete with grid fins and landing legs, but launching and landing on jack-up barges and with the fairings staying with the booster!

Nice!  8)

With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

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