Author Topic: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings  (Read 344420 times)

Offline su27k

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #440 on: 05/18/2022 12:24 pm »
May 13 SpaceX meeting with FCC International Bureau discussing Gen2: https://licensing.fcc.gov/myibfs/download.do?attachment_key=15990507

Interesting things:
1. For the current constellation: "200 Mbps (improving to 1 Gbps)"
2. For Gen2: "Aluminum is equivalent to previous space operations that did not have negative effects. For instance, the aluminum in the Gen2 system is comparable to what Space Shuttle injected over its life."

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #441 on: 05/20/2022 04:17 am »
Some places are already seeing over 300Mbps on Starlink.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline su27k

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #442 on: 05/20/2022 01:50 pm »
https://www.pcmag.com/news/high-performance-dish-for-likely-starlink-business-tier-gets-fcc-approval

Quote
SpaceX seems to have finally secured regulatory approval to sell the premium Starlink Business dish to customers in the US.

On Monday, the FCC granted(Opens in a new window) a license for a “high-performance” end-user terminal for Starlink that can emit a more powerful signal. The same terminal has also been “ruggedized” to better withstand harsh environments.

In its application to the FCC, SpaceX didn’t reveal much about the technical specs for the high-performance user terminal. But the license is most likely for the Starlink Business dish, which SpaceX first introduced in February. The premium dish is designed to receive download speeds at 150Mbps to 500Mbps, far higher than the 50-200Mbps download speeds of the consumer-focused Starlink dish.

Link to FCC application

Offline gongora

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #443 on: 05/20/2022 05:34 pm »
SAT-STA-20220516-00051

Space Exploration Holdings, LLC (“SpaceX”), pursuant to Section 25.120 of the
Commission’s rules, hereby requests Special Temporary Authority (“STA”) for its first-generation
non-geostationary orbit (“NGSO”) satellites to communicate with its user terminals operated by
its sister company, SpaceX Services, Inc. (“SpaceX Services”) in the polar regions of the United
States.
...
This application requests carefully limited, temporary authority solely to authorize
communications between SpaceX satellites and user terminals at elevation angles no less than 10
degrees in polar regions — i.e., at latitudes above 53 degrees.
...
This stop-gap operation will enable SpaceX to speed deployment of its high-speed,
low-latency service to the polar regions of the United States in the interim period before SpaceX’s
system is sufficiently deployed to provide polar service at its already authorized 25-degree
minimum elevation angle.

Online DanClemmensen

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #444 on: 05/20/2022 05:55 pm »
SAT-STA-20220516-00051

Space Exploration Holdings, LLC (“SpaceX”), pursuant to Section 25.120 of the
Commission’s rules, hereby requests Special Temporary Authority (“STA”) for its first-generation
non-geostationary orbit (“NGSO”) satellites to communicate with its user terminals operated by
its sister company, SpaceX Services, Inc. (“SpaceX Services”) in the polar regions of the United
States.
...
This application requests carefully limited, temporary authority solely to authorize
communications between SpaceX satellites and user terminals at elevation angles no less than 10
degrees in polar regions — i.e., at latitudes above 53 degrees.
...
This stop-gap operation will enable SpaceX to speed deployment of its high-speed,
low-latency service to the polar regions of the United States in the interim period before SpaceX’s
system is sufficiently deployed to provide polar service at its already authorized 25-degree
minimum elevation angle.
Well that's going to be fun. The way the planes work the satellites are tightly bunched at 53 degrees latitude, so they need less than a third of them to provide the "normal" beam footprint pattern that is more or less centered on satellite nadir.  The other satellites can then "tilt" to center their footprints to the north, which allows the terminals up there to stare to the south near the horizon to see these satellites. Probably increases the uncorrected error rate so retransmissions will reduce the effective aggregate throughput, but that's OK because there are multiple satellites and a small population. You also need to ensure that the terminals are not pointing at GEO, but I think the geometry works out for that.
I'm not sure this speculation is correct, and I don't know how they will "tilt" the beams, but probably by using their reaction wheels.

Offline gongora

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #445 on: 05/20/2022 06:04 pm »
This could also be to support the new shells as they start launching and bringing them into service.

Offline markbike528cbx

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #446 on: 05/20/2022 06:32 pm »
Is there any action or information on Starlink V-band application?

Re FCC-CIRC1811-04 IBFS File No. SAT-LOA-20170301-00027   Oct2018

and the most recent (Nov  5 2021) filings.

https://spacenews.com/connecting-the-dots-addressing-the-v-band-disconnect/    --Feb 2022

http://www.parabolicarc.com/2021/11/08/planned-comsat-constellations-now-exceed-94000-satellites/  --Nov 8 2021


Offline pyromatter

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Offline gemmy0I

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #448 on: 05/23/2022 06:33 pm »
Quote from: pbdes tweet
Forever busy: @SpaceX Starlink's German subsidiary files 2 new satellite constellations with @ITU, in Ku- & Ka-band. Mars-K3: 3,192 sats, 86 planes at 522.5 & 540 km. Mars-K4: 2,992 sats, 132 planes at 522.5, 540, 560 & 570 km. Germany's @bnetza becoming a hub for NGSO filings.
Trying to parse this very terse tweet...does anyone have an idea what this means from a big-picture standpoint?

Is this for Starlink 2.0?

Are "Mars-K3" and "Mars-K4" simply convenience/code names for particular constellation shells, or are we finally seeing rumblings of a Starlink constellation in orbit of Mars to support future SpaceX and NASA missions there? Given that SpaceX isn't expecting to launch actual Starships to Mars until at least 2024, sending some Starlinks now-ish would be a great way to not let the 2022 planetary alignment window go to waste. After all, SpaceX will need/want to have Starlink assets in place before the first Starship arrives, so they can stream high-bandwidth telemetry back; the painfully limited capacity of NASA's DSN is not really up to par with SpaceX's "blow stuff up and get as much data as possible on every conceivable metric" modus operandi. And besides, NASA would certainly love to have (and pay for) additional communication bandwidth at Mars even if SpaceX isn't yet ready to use it itself (e.g. if Starship-to-Mars suffers further delays).

And what is the significance of filing these through Germany instead of the U.S.? I can imagine that different countries may have more or less efficient bureaucracy for making filings with the ITU, so now that SpaceX has subsidiaries around the globe it may be easier to route filings through an easier country. But I'm not very familiar with how ITU filings fit into the grand scheme of satisfying both national and supranational regulations for providing Starlink service on Earth. Is ITU compliance something SpaceX has to satisfy as a prerequisite before they can even think about filing with national authorities (e.g. the U.S. FCC) to provide service to customers in those countries? Or does this filing suggest this is specifically in relation to providing service in Germany? Or perhaps, service on Mars that needs to be filed with the ITU merely for the purposes of frequency coordination with other exploration stakeholders at Mars and/or for backhaul links to Earth?

Offline JayWee

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #449 on: 05/23/2022 07:50 pm »
Sending 3192 sats to Mars would feel a bit excessive tho. Besides, do you have to register with ITU on Mars?

Offline gongora

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #450 on: 05/24/2022 12:25 am »
The filings are for Earth orbit and most of the Starlink filings have been made outside the U.S.

Offline gongora

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #451 on: 05/24/2022 02:46 am »
Those new filings are for 53 and/or 53.2 degrees inclination

Offline gongora

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #452 on: 05/24/2022 02:49 am »
Is there any action or information on Starlink V-band application?

The V-band only sats are extremely unlikely to happen, and I'm not sure adding a V-band payload to the other sats for which it has been authorized is terribly likely either.

Offline su27k

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #453 on: 05/25/2022 01:56 am »
From new filing regarding 12GHz:

Quote
Serves 48 U.S. states and over 400,000 subscribers worldwide

Quote
Will connect even more people and places with its next-generation user terminals

Offline su27k

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #454 on: 06/03/2022 03:17 pm »
This reddit post summarized this pretty well so I'm just going to quote it: DISH is complaining about unauthorized use of Starlink in motion to the FCC

Quote
DISH is mostly complaining about the statements Starlink and Musk made.

Quote from: DISH
Mr. Musk recently tweeted: “Starlink does work on vehicles in motion, including planes, but not yet reliably.” In the same vein, SpaceX tweeted: “Starlink for RVs is available now wherever Starlink has coverage, and users can check the availability map for service areas before hitting the road.” Mr. Musk was not sharing these thoughts with an intimate circle of confidantes and associates. He was sharing them with his 95 million Twitter followers, fully aware of the potential for many retweets. Nor did he qualify them by saying that the advertised availability is an illegal act. And, sure enough, he did not specify that the service is available only to parked or incapacitated RVs, or only to planes at the airport or at the hangar. In fact, he explicitly referred to “vehicles in motion.”

[pages of arguing omitted, see the whole filing at the bottom].

DISH argues prohibition of use in motion in the ToS is not good enough. It claims
Quote from: DISH
"the moving earth stations will generate requests for service, triggering Starlink satellite beams to make transmissions that would otherwise not have happened; they could thus cause interference into DBS dishes that otherwise would experience none."

They also refer to a reddit thread:
Quote from: DISH
These encouragements to unlawfulness have had exactly the intended results. Citing to one of the above tweets from Mr. Musk, a user on the Starlink Reddit forum posted, “Starlink works in motion.”

and to a video a Canadian Starlink user /u/MikeOnSpace posted:
Quote from: DISH
A Starlink customer has even posted a video testing the system while driving entitled “DRIVING with Starlink - MOBILE ROAMING at 80 MPH!”

I'm surprised they didn't find more examples.

At the end they demand
Quote from: DISH
"SpaceX and its CEO must therefore place a notice on their Twitter feeds and on https://www.starlink.com/rv stating that ESIM use is explicitly not authorized. SpaceX must also state that any prior statements to the contrary were in error and are being rescinded. Similarly, SpaceX must explain what steps it is currently taking to monitor and limit unauthorized mobile vehicle operations. For example, what systems does Starlink have in place to monitor mobile use by customers? Is SpaceX actively checking for such use? How many customers have received warnings or account terminations for unauthorized mobile use?"

Filing: https://licensing.fcc.gov/myibfs/download.do?attachment_key=16192409
« Last Edit: 06/03/2022 03:22 pm by su27k »

Online DanClemmensen

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #455 on: 06/03/2022 03:54 pm »
I guess the "real" question is whether it's even technically possible to prevent operation-during-motion.
Yes it is technically possible, since the Starlink terminal software is proprietary.  The Software has to know where the terminal is and how it is oriented in order to operate at all, therefore the software can detect motion and stop transmitting when in motion, for any software-defined definition of motion the programmer chooses. If the software can be hacked, this fails, but then motion is the least of your worries as far as interference is concerned.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #456 on: 06/03/2022 05:38 pm »
Dish’s claims can be dismissed out of hand. Musk was referring to technical possibility, not permission, and he was 100% correct. Should he lie about it?
« Last Edit: 06/03/2022 05:38 pm by Robotbeat »
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline su27k

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #457 on: 06/13/2022 02:11 pm »
From May 17th: SpaceX requesting temporary authority to use elevation angles >= 10 degrees in US polar regions

Quote
This application requests carefully limited, temporary authority solely to authorize
communications between SpaceX satellites and user terminals at elevation angles no less than 10
degrees in polar regions — i.e., at latitudes above 53 degrees. This application does not seek
authority to deploy any additional satellites or earth stations. It also does not seek any change in
the technical or operating characteristics of the satellites and earth stations the Commission has
already authorized, except for this narrow change to the minimum elevation angle observed in
polar regions. This stop-gap operation will enable SpaceX to speed deployment of its high-speed,
low-latency service to the polar regions of the United States in the interim period before SpaceX’s
system is sufficiently deployed to provide polar service at its already authorized 25-degree
minimum elevation angle. This operation would take place throughout the 10.7-12.7 GHz
(downlink) and 14.0-14.5 GHz (uplink) bands.

Offline su27k

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #458 on: 06/22/2022 04:57 am »
SpaceX warns 5G plan would deny Starlink to most Americans

Quote from: SpaceNews
SpaceX warned June 21 that its Starlink broadband network would become unusable for most Americans if a proposal to use the 12 GHz band for terrestrial 5G is approved.

U.S.-based satellite broadcaster Dish Network is seeking permission to operate a high-power mobile service in the 12 GHz band, which is part of the Ku-band spectrum that Starlink, OneWeb and other satellite operators use to connect with user terminals.

In a letter to the Federal Communications Commission, SpaceX said tests it conducted in Las Vegas shows how the proposed network would cause Starlink users to “experience harmful interference” more than 77% of the time.

Starlink would be “subjected to total outage of service 74% of the time,” wrote David Goldman, SpaceX senior director of satellite policy.

Offline su27k

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #459 on: 06/30/2022 03:23 am »
SpaceX Urges Starlink Users to Petition FCC in Spectrum Battle With Dish

Quote from: pcmag.com
SpaceX is escalating a regulatory battle against Dish Network for rights over the 12GHz band by calling on Starlink subscribers to petition the FCC in the company’s favor.

On Tuesday, SpaceX sent out a message to US-based Starlink customers, asking them to sign a petition(Opens in a new window), which is designed to be sent to both the FCC and US lawmakers. 

“Today we ask for your support in ending a lobbying campaign that threatens to make Starlink unusable for you and the vast majority of our American customers,” SpaceX wrote in the message, according(Opens in a new window) to Starlink users on Reddit and Facebook.

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