Author Topic: The Buran Thread (Read 809992 times)

Dmitry_V_home · « **Reply #1120 on:** 08/02/2023 06:02 pm »

Buran's "paper" predecessors

Vahe231991 · « **Reply #1121 on:** 08/03/2023 03:39 pm »

I found an NBC article discussing how the KGB and VPK infiltrated US institutions to get technical knowledge of the American space shuttle for eventual application to development of the Buran space shuttle:
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna18686090

JAFO · « **Reply #1122 on:** 08/23/2023 07:21 pm »

One thing I've always been curious about was why Buran located the nose gear so far back compared to the US shuttle.

Dmitry_V_home · « **Reply #1123 on:** 08/26/2023 02:14 pm »

Quote from: JAFO on 08/23/2023 07:21 pm

One thing I've always been curious about was why Buran located the nose gear so far back compared to the US shuttle.

The nose landing gear was located near the power structure of the front communication unit with the rocket. This is rational, in terms of the weight of the structure.
In addition, the compartment under the floor of the Buran flight deck was occupied by equipment.
Finally, reducing the chassis base improves maneuvering on the ground.
http://www.buran.ru/htm/kompon.htm

JAFO · « **Reply #1124 on:** 08/26/2023 11:36 pm »

Kwel, thanks for the website.

Plus of that location is less impact load on derotation during landing, Minus would be in case of emergency extension it would be fighting the slipstream. Wonder if there was an extension blow-down/assist of some kind, or if it was just heavy enough to extend on it's own in time without.

FutureSpaceTourist · « **Reply #1125 on:** 11/15/2023 08:26 am »

FutureSpaceTourist · « **Reply #1126 on:** 11/15/2023 08:28 am »

https://twitter.com/nasaspaceflight/status/1724639242251272429

Quote

At this time in 1988, the Soviet Space Shuttle Buran launched on her one and only flight, uncrewed.

Overview:

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/11/remembering-buran-shuttles-estranged-soviet-cousin/

A clip from one of the several long vids we acquired in L2:

catdlr · « **Reply #1127 on:** 11/15/2023 10:08 am »

Like the Buran Movie thread, it is only one of the oldest running and favorite threads, consistently updated since 10/17/2005.

Dmitry_V_home · « **Reply #1128 on:** 11/16/2023 06:40 pm »

On the 35th anniversary of Buran's first flight, some materials were declassified.
https://rgantd.ru/virtual/kosmos/buran-rozhdenie-proekta-k-35-letiyu-zapuska/
https://www.roscosmos.ru/39897/

Blackstar · « **Reply #1129 on:** 11/16/2023 08:50 pm »

gtae07 · « **Reply #1130 on:** 11/30/2023 08:11 pm »

Well that's interesting... was reading an AW&ST article on the Russian Superjet and ran across a pic halfway down that appears to have, of all things, a Buran vertical tail...

https://aviationweek.com/mro/aircraft-propulsion/russias-superjet-fleet-faces-growing-sustainment-issues

It appears to be a stock photo but still, what's that doing there?

Zero-G · « **Reply #1131 on:** 12/01/2023 01:12 am »

That photo is from Chaplygin Siberian Scientific Research Institute of Aviation (SIBNIA).
During the development of Buran, SIBNIA was involved with testing components and assemblies of Buran.
This vertical tail assembly was used for tests of the thermal protection system.

Blackstar · « **Reply #1132 on:** 12/02/2023 11:36 am »

https://medium.com/@energiaburan/energia-buran-frame-stitches-242599ea7709

Jer · « **Reply #1133 on:** 01/29/2024 10:46 pm »

Sorry if this has been answered before, but was a reason ever given as to why Energia was hydrolox powered? I mean, they changed plenty of things from STS, but why was arguably the "worst' part of it, the main stage being hydrolox powered (especially when the USSR had basically no experience with hydrolox engines too) wasn't changed?

edzieba · « **Reply #1134 on:** 01/30/2024 02:33 pm »

Quote from: Jer on 01/29/2024 10:46 pm

Sorry if this has been answered before, but was a reason ever given as to why Energia was hydrolox powered? I mean, they changed plenty of things from STS, but why was arguably the "worst' part of it, the main stage being hydrolox powered (especially when the USSR had basically no experience with hydrolox engines too) wasn't changed?

A hydrolox upper stage is not unusual, and Buran's (kerolox, later forming the Zenit first stage) side boosters are more of a first stage than the central core. Burning from the surface is unusual for serial staging but not for parallel staging. If Energia had stuck the side boosters underneath for a traditional tall narrow vehicle, the choice of a hydrolox upper stage would not be unusual at all.
As for why Buran/Energia specifically chose Hydrolox: the project stemmed from "the Americans have a shuttle, there must be a reason for the Shuttle, we need a Shuttle too!" so anything that matched that was easier to get approval for than deviations (though there were plenty of those where it proved more viable, e.g. not building up a capability for manufacturing massive solid motors), and 'Kosberg would like to make a huge hydrolox engine' would at least be a factor in maintaining a hydrolox stage somewhere in the mix.
tl;dr requirements with poor justification, used as an excuse for funded R&D

TheKutKu · « **Reply #1135 on:** 01/30/2024 05:26 pm »

Quote from: Jer on 01/29/2024 10:46 pm

Sorry if this has been answered before, but was a reason ever given as to why Energia was hydrolox powered? I mean, they changed plenty of things from STS, but why was arguably the "worst' part of it, the main stage being hydrolox powered (especially when the USSR had basically no experience with hydrolox engines too) wasn't changed?

Sergey Afanasyev, Minister of General Machine Building, Chertok's diaries vol 4.
"The Ministry of Defence does not agree with this approach - they want development of Lox/Hydrogen systems such as the Americans have."

I think that's the gist of it, The army wanted it, one can find similar reasoning and funding for Hydrolox propulsion in the Chinese and French spaceflight history which both flew Hydrolox engines in the late 70s/early 80s.

However, if I had to comment

USSR had quite a bit of experience with hydrolox developing and testing low to medium thrust hydrolox engines for the N1, they just had never flown. There also were already advanced studies of large closed cycle hydrolox engines from the 60s. However, There indeed probably was some political justification for why KbKhA got the engine development contract. They definitely didn't come from nowhere.

Furthermore...

A Hydrogen+Kerolox sustainer-booster rocket is just a great architecture for launching payloads to low earth orbit, enabling large fairing diameter or large, unaerodynamic side loads, optimised S1/S2 size ratio, ignition of all engines at liftoff; easy parachute recovery and rail transportation of the first stages, commonality of the first stage with other launchers.

Emmettvonbrown · « **Reply #1136 on:** 01/30/2024 05:53 pm »

N-1F and others variants indeed were to have LH2 high energy stages 3, 4, 5 and beyond (too many stages !)
Lyulka RD-54 / RD-57
Isaiev RD-56
(sorry if I butcher the russian names)

JetProp · « **Reply #1137 on:** 01/31/2024 03:40 pm »

Quote from: TheKutKu on 01/30/2024 05:26 pm

There indeed probably was some political justification for why KbKhA got the engine development contract. They definitely didn't come from nowhere.

It is not politic, it is only technic: KBHA has a great experiance of work with liquid hydrogen - they made 11B91, nuclear thermal rocket engine.

Targeteer · « **Reply #1138 on:** 03/25/2024 03:28 am »

Hopefully this fits here. https://twitter.com/11K25_Energia/status/1772021430563021044/photo/1

hoku · « **Reply #1139 on:** 08/12/2024 04:56 pm »

Quote from: JAFO on 03/09/2022 05:05 am

"Several followers sent me a link to the article which said that a Buran hull, transported by truck, was spotted near Moscow this Saturday. Looks like that this is #Buran 2.01 was moved from Zhukovsky airport to private Zadorozhny's Museum of Technics. https://virtualbrest.ru/news101853.php"

Here she is. Sat at Zhukovsky Airfield partially painted, for ten years.
— Space Shuttle Almanac (@ShuttleAlmanac) March 9, 2022

A week ago "Buran 2.01" arrived at the UMMC Museum Complex in Verkhnyaya Pyshma, and now finally sits upright again. They plan to restore it, and ultimately to build a special "Energia-Buran" pavilion.

https://rg.ru/2024/08/05/reg-urfo/v-verhniuiu-pyshmu-privezli-kosmicheskij-korabl-buran.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMMC_Museum_Complex