Author Topic: Vandenberg Shuttle Facilities  (Read 56269 times)

Offline Hog

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Re: Vandenberg Shuttle Facilities.
« Reply #20 on: 04/14/2023 09:11 pm »
OMCF=Orbiter Maintenance Checkout Facility

attachments (courtesy USAF)
a)SLC-6
b)SLC-6
c)SLC-6 from the South
Paul

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Vandenberg Shuttle Facilities.
« Reply #21 on: 10/09/2024 10:48 pm »
I just acquired a bunch of concept art (1978-1980) for VAFB shuttle facilities, so I'm going to write a short article to show off the art.

Before I open up Jenkins' big shuttle book to look, I have a couple of questions that maybe people here know off the top of their head.

Where can I find the annual launch rate for VAFB/VSFB for the past two decades? I know that it increased a lot in the past two years with Falcon 9 launches, but I'd like to get an understanding of what it was this century.

What was the expected VAFB shuttle launch rate as of 1980? I am sure that there is a projected manifest somewhere that predicted X number of Florida launches and Y number of Vandenberg launches. Anybody have any tips?


Offline Blackstar

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Re: Vandenberg Shuttle Facilities
« Reply #22 on: 10/10/2024 03:20 am »
Okay, I have a partial answer to my question above.

The original plan was for 20 launches a year from VAFB with a two-shuttle fleet assigned to Vandenberg. This may have required a second pad.

This was later revised down to about 17 launches per year, and then further to 13 launches per year. That's discussed in the attached 1977 Government Accounting Office document. I assume that by 1980, the number dropped a bit more, probably to around 8-10 a year.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Vandenberg Shuttle Facilities
« Reply #23 on: 10/10/2024 03:24 am »
Well, maybe I wrote that too soon. This 1978 GAO report indicates that the military launch model by 1978 required only four shuttle launches per year from Vandenberg.

I'll keep digging.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Vandenberg Shuttle Facilities
« Reply #24 on: 10/10/2024 03:41 am »
This GAO report from October 1986 indicates that they were considering two possible Vandenberg shuttle launch requirements--four launches per year and one launch per year. So it looks that by 1978 the expected number was four and this stayed constant over time. It is possible it went up a bit. I wrote about DAMON and that would have required several shuttle launches per year. But DAMON was canceled not much after it had started.


Offline zubenelgenubi

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Re: Vandenberg Shuttle Facilities
« Reply #25 on: 10/10/2024 12:41 pm »
<snip>
The original plan was for 20 launches a year from VAFB with a two-shuttle fleet assigned to Vandenberg. This may have required a second pad.
<snip>
That would explain the the two launch pads on the map in Jim's OP.
[map]
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Offline Blackstar

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Re: Vandenberg Shuttle Facilities
« Reply #26 on: 10/10/2024 01:11 pm »
That would explain the the two launch pads on the map in Jim's OP.

According to one of the GAO documents I posted above, as of 1977, the plan was for the first pad to be available by 1982, and a decision to be made by the early 1980s if the second pad was necessary, with a goal of having it ready by 1986. Of course, SLC-6 was not ready until 1986, and was shut down only a few months before completion.




Offline Blackstar

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Re: Vandenberg Shuttle Facilities
« Reply #27 on: 10/10/2024 01:17 pm »
It is not the focus of my upcoming short article, but the expected number of VAFB shuttle launches raises some interesting questions--what led them to believe that they would have approximately 17, and then approximately 13, launches per year? Most of those would have been reconnaissance satellites, and even by the mid-1970s the NRO was only launching a handful of them per year, not the monthly launches of the 1960s.

I have been hoping that we would get more NRO documents on their expected use of the shuttle, but it has slowed down in the last few years. My article on DAMON and HEXAGON on shuttle explored some plans to use shuttle as a reconnaissance platform (not just a launch vehicle). But it's hard to see how they could do eight or more reconnaissance missions per year with shuttle.

Offline Spiceman

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Re: Vandenberg Shuttle Facilities
« Reply #28 on: 10/10/2024 03:47 pm »
Maybe it was a case of "Hans Mark shuttle enthusiasm". He was really the kind of guy who would push for multiple DAMON missions per year: making the Shuttle a kind of "spaceborne SR-71" or "orbital U-2".
Also launch on crisis. Arguing that "yes, we have KH-9s in orbit, but Shuttle can add additional capability in time of crisis." Making the KH-9 reusable, launching on demand every 15 days or less (cough, cough), bringing down film at a runway, hence faster than those pesky buckets parachuted in the Pacific...
Whatever Shuttle justification borrowed from NASA 1972 playbook ("bring it and they will come") and adapted to spy satellites.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Vandenberg Shuttle Facilities
« Reply #29 on: 10/10/2024 05:54 pm »
Maybe it was a case of "Hans Mark shuttle enthusiasm". He was really the kind of guy who would push for


Yes, I believe that is the general answer. I would like to get a more specific answer. I need to figure out what records to FOIA from NRO.

Offline Jim

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Re: Vandenberg Shuttle Facilities
« Reply #30 on: 10/10/2024 11:17 pm »

Where can I find the annual launch rate for VAFB/VSFB for the past two decades? I know that it increased a lot in the past two years with Falcon 9 launches, but I'd like to get an understanding of what it was this century.


Gunter's?  Look at Titan II/IV, Delta II/IV and Atlas II/III

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Vandenberg Shuttle Facilities
« Reply #31 on: 10/11/2024 11:47 am »

Where can I find the annual launch rate for VAFB/VSFB for the past two decades? I know that it increased a lot in the past two years with Falcon 9 launches, but I'd like to get an understanding of what it was this century.


Gunter's?  Look at Titan II/IV, Delta II/IV and Atlas II/III

I tried that. No luck. I'll have to ask Jonathan McDowell, who can probably pull this out of a database.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Vandenberg Shuttle Facilities
« Reply #32 on: 10/11/2024 11:57 am »
I don't want to turn this into a big article, so I am resisting diving into it too much. I have looked at Jenkins' shuttle book to see what is in there and will look at it again. Most of his focus was on SLC-6, and I need to understand what other shuttle facilities were built at VAFB that were ultimately repurposed. The artwork I have shows a parachute maintenance building and also a large shuttle ET maintenance building that could hold up to five ETs. I don't know if either of those was built.

It's always impressive to look at photos of the SLC-6 construction. It was a huge project. A couple of years ago I was lucky to get an exclusive tour of SLC-6 while the Delta IV Heavy was on the pad. I got to go under, alongside, and above the rocket, which was really cool. My guide also pointed out some of the changes from MOL to shuttle and then from shuttle to Delta IV. For instance the original MOL complex had fire escapes down from the tower that were not enclosed, meaning that anybody using them could be overcome by smoke, so they were replaced with enclosed stairwells--the original stairwells were still there, but they were blocked off. There was another major difference on the ground in front of the rocket, where a rotating structure had been replaced. And some of the flame trenches were partially filled in.


Offline edzieba

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Re: Vandenberg Shuttle Facilities
« Reply #33 on: 10/11/2024 12:21 pm »

Where can I find the annual launch rate for VAFB/VSFB for the past two decades? I know that it increased a lot in the past two years with Falcon 9 launches, but I'd like to get an understanding of what it was this century.


Gunter's?  Look at Titan II/IV, Delta II/IV and Atlas II/III

I tried that. No luck. I'll have to ask Jonathan McDowell, who can probably pull this out of a database.
VSFB launches per year attached (filtered from Jonathan's GCAT).

    [th]Year[/th]
    [th]Launch count[/th]
19581
195920
196025
196128
196258
196391
1964105
1965101
1966122
1967115
196878
196995
197087
197184
197265
197344
197449
197547
197641
197732
197832
197927
198027
198121
198217
198328
198423
198517
198617
198720
198813
198913
199013
199116
199213
199311
199414
199511
199616
199719
199818
199917
200016
200112
200213
200312
20048
20059
200611
20078
200810
20098
201010
20119
20124
201311
20146
20157
20167
201714
201813
201910
20205
202110
202219
202335
202436
« Last Edit: 10/11/2024 12:25 pm by edzieba »

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Vandenberg Shuttle Facilities
« Reply #34 on: 10/11/2024 02:26 pm »
Thank you for that. Does that include suborbital launches like Minuteman?


Update: Jonathan just told me 286 launches this century, including suborbital like Minuteman.

« Last Edit: 10/11/2024 02:46 pm by Blackstar »

Offline edzieba

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Re: Vandenberg Shuttle Facilities
« Reply #35 on: 10/11/2024 02:41 pm »
Thank you for that. Does that include suborbital launches like Minuteman?
It does. Here's just orbital launches:
    [th]Year[/th]
    [th]Count[/th]
19598
196011
196117
196226
196321
196432
196540
196646
196740
196832
196922
197017
197119
197221
197312
197413
197514
197613
19777
197814
19796
19809
19818
19825
198311
198410
19855
19864
19875
19887
19892
19903
19915
19924
19934
19946
19956
19968
199711
199811
199911
20008
20015
20023
20036
20043
20055
20066
20074
20084
20096
20103
20116
20122
20135
20144
20152
20163
20179
20189
20193
20201
20217
202216
202330
202433
202436

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Vandenberg Shuttle Facilities
« Reply #36 on: 10/12/2024 01:57 am »
Working a bit more on my article (again, it's going to be relatively short, not a detailed history of this subject), I decided to look at Google Earth to see what shuttle facilities were built and still standing. I looked for the ET storage and processing facility and found it just a short distance south of SLC-6. It was designed to store four ETs and process a fifth.

I suspect that this building was never used, even for Delta IV. It's just too big, and at the southern part of the base there's not really any activities over there that would require it. What are they going to fill it with, lawnmowers and dump trucks?  Next time I am out there I'll have to ask my buddy if we can get over there and see it.

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Re: Vandenberg Shuttle Facilities
« Reply #37 on: 10/12/2024 06:55 am »
Working a bit more on my article (again, it's going to be relatively short, not a detailed history of this subject), I decided to look at Google Earth to see what shuttle facilities were built and still standing. I looked for the ET storage and processing facility and found it just a short distance south of SLC-6. It was designed to store four ETs and process a fifth.

I suspect that this building was never used, even for Delta IV. It's just too big, and at the southern part of the base there's not really any activities over there that would require it. What are they going to fill it with, lawnmowers and dump trucks?  Next time I am out there I'll have to ask my buddy if we can get over there and see it.

This site is now leased out to Relativity Space to build a new pad there for their Terran-R rocket.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/24/3d-rocket-printer-relativity-signs-deal-with-iridium-and-plans-to-build-a-california-launchpad.html

Relativity just announced they’ve secured a launch site at Vandenberg on the southern tip of the base, and a launch contract with Iridium to fly 6 of their satellites. As well as a Chief Financial Officer with investment banking/fundraising background. Pretty big news! That is some solid, very solid, business progress. Methinks as long as the printing tech is actually working, they will definitely make it to orbit just a matter of time now... and they’ll probably have the capital to do it if they don’t already given this kind of business traction which is catnip for investors.
Astronomy & spaceflight geek penguin. In a relationship w/ Space Shuttle Discovery.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Vandenberg Shuttle Facilities
« Reply #38 on: 10/20/2024 08:49 pm »
I'm not doing any deep dive research on VAFB and the shuttle. I have another article in draft form that I may go back to some day and it goes into things like the acquisition of the land that was then used for SLC-6. My current article is mainly just an excuse to show off a bunch of artwork.

One interesting fact that a friend of mine pointed out was that the large ET storage facility, capable of storing four ETs while processing a fifth, was based on a concern that in event of war, the Panama Canal could be shut down. Now I'm not sure how you get to that point--if it is WWIII, then the launch site will get nuked, so it doesn't matter if the canal is open or closed. Maybe they were concerned about instability in Panama, which did eventually become rather unstable.
« Last Edit: 10/21/2024 12:40 am by Blackstar »

Offline Jim

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Re: Vandenberg Shuttle Facilities
« Reply #39 on: 10/20/2024 09:50 pm »

One interesting fact that a friend of mine pointed out was that the large SRB storage facility, capable of storing four SRBs while processing a fifth, was based on a concern that in event of war, the Panama Canal could be shut down. Now I'm not sure how you get to that point--if it is WWIII, then the launch site will get nuked, so it doesn't matter if the canal is open or closed. Maybe they were concerned about instability in Panama, which did eventually become rather unstable.

ET storage facility I believe. That is the building in reply #36.  SRB building were on the north side near the railroad tracks.
« Last Edit: 10/21/2024 01:54 pm by Jim »

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