Author Topic: Jupiter History  (Read 103189 times)

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Jupiter History
« Reply #20 on: 07/02/2011 02:40 am »
Minor correction, Ed...

Explorer 1 was launched January 31, 1958 (February 1 GMT), not in March 1958.


Thanks, and not minor!

 - Ed Kyle

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Jupiter History
« Reply #21 on: 07/02/2011 04:04 am »
Well, Ed, PATHFINDER is close, but no cigar. There is no 'N'
in this Jupiter code (which is the second iteration incidently - the
first ten Jupiters had a different code!)  Number 5 is actually 'S.'
I will wait and see if anybody else has more to add to
the discussion before I post additional comments. 

It looks like I must withdraw the 4="H" code.  That leaves the following:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0
P A T   S I    D E R

 - Ed Kyle

Offline rocketeer

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Re: Jupiter History
« Reply #22 on: 07/02/2011 06:37 am »
You don't have to give up on the letter H for the number 4, Ed. By
coincidence, H was the last letter that I was able to verify earlier this year during my search for the complete Jupiter code. I found a closeup photo of vehicle AM-24, a Jupiter that previously had eluded my search
for a clear picture. To my amazement the code letters on the side of the rocket were AH, corresponding to Jupiter number 24. The source was
an original RCA photolab of Jupiter AM-24 dated 9-30-59.

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Jupiter History
« Reply #23 on: 07/02/2011 03:59 pm »
You don't have to give up on the letter H for the number 4, Ed. By
coincidence, H was the last letter that I was able to verify earlier this year during my search for the complete Jupiter code. I found a closeup photo of vehicle AM-24, a Jupiter that previously had eluded my search
for a clear picture. To my amazement the code letters on the side of the rocket were AH, corresponding to Jupiter number 24. The source was
an original RCA photolab of Jupiter AM-24 dated 9-30-59.

Good find.  I've only seen low resolution images of AM-24 so far. 

The only mnemonic possibilities left that might work would be "PATHSILDER", "PATHSIYDER", and maybe "PATHSIZDER" or "PATHSIVDER".  The first and last appear to possibly translate to German or Dutch. 

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 07/02/2011 04:38 pm by edkyle99 »

Offline Proponent

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Re: Jupiter History
« Reply #24 on: 07/04/2011 02:01 pm »
Was there any particular reason for use of the HUNTSVILEX and PATHSI-DER codes?  The codes being so simple, it seems unlikely they would have been taken seriously as ways of maintaining secrecy.

Offline Proponent

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Re: Jupiter History
« Reply #25 on: 07/04/2011 03:39 pm »
Have a look at the left-most image on page 108 of the report Lessons Learned in Engineering (discussed in in this thread), attached below.  The report's authors describe as being of "Jupiter 1".  Note the marking "AMXHA"

I presume "Jupiter 1" was Jupiter AM-1A.

Could it be that the image has been reversed, and the marking really read "AMXHA".

Could it be that for the very first Jupiter flights, the HUNTSVILEX code was still used?
« Last Edit: 07/04/2011 03:43 pm by Proponent »

Offline Art LeBrun

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Re: Jupiter History
« Reply #26 on: 07/04/2011 03:54 pm »
Have a look at the left-most image on page 108 of the report Lessons Learned in Engineering (discussed in in this thread), attached below.  The report's authors describe as being of "Jupiter 1".  Note the marking "AMXHA"

I presume "Jupiter 1" was Jupiter AM-1A.

Could it be that the image has been reversed, and the marking really read "AMXHA".

Could it be that for the very first Jupiter flights, the HUNTSVILEX code was still used?
The P108 inflight image on the right is reversed much like the prelaunch image just attached.

PLEASE NOTE A CORRECTED IMAGE IS LOCATED 3 REPLIES BELOW FOR YOUR DOWNLOADS.
« Last Edit: 07/04/2011 08:38 pm by Art LeBrun »
1958 launch vehicle highlights: Vanguard TV-4 and Atlas 12B

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Jupiter History
« Reply #27 on: 07/04/2011 07:14 pm »
Have a look at the left-most image on page 108 of the report Lessons Learned in Engineering (discussed in in this thread), attached below.  The report's authors describe as being of "Jupiter 1".  Note the marking "AMXHA"

I presume "Jupiter 1" was Jupiter AM-1A.

Could it be that the image has been reversed, and the marking really read "AMXHA".

Could it be that for the very first Jupiter flights, the HUNTSVILEX code was still used?


The Redstone HUNTSVILEX code was clearly used for at least the first launch.
Here's a version of your image shown correctly. 
http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/AM-1A.jpg
The proper orientation is proved by Art's photo, which must be mirrored to be correct.  That image was taken looking toward the north at LC5 (LC 26 under construction in the background).  The LC 17 towers need to be toward the right (northeast) for the photo to fit the ground truth. 

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 07/04/2011 07:20 pm by edkyle99 »

Offline Jim

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Re: Jupiter History
« Reply #28 on: 07/04/2011 07:35 pm »
I would agree with Ed, it is a mirrored image
« Last Edit: 07/04/2011 07:35 pm by Jim »

Offline Art LeBrun

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Re: Jupiter History
« Reply #29 on: 07/04/2011 07:55 pm »
Here is the corrected (flipped) version. I made the image into black and white as it looked better then the weak green color original.
1958 launch vehicle highlights: Vanguard TV-4 and Atlas 12B

Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Jupiter History
« Reply #30 on: 07/05/2011 01:57 am »
Was there any particular reason for use of the HUNTSVILEX and PATHSI-DER codes?  The codes being so simple, it seems unlikely they would have been taken seriously as ways of maintaining secrecy.

Considering the paint scheme was designed so that it was easier to interpret the vehicles true orientation and rotation. Could it be that letters are easier to make out when the images are out of focus, blurred, obstructed, and mirrored?

Edit: or covered with ice...
« Last Edit: 07/05/2011 01:59 am by kevin-rf »
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Offline edkyle99

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Re: Jupiter History
« Reply #31 on: 07/05/2011 02:46 am »
Was there any particular reason for use of the HUNTSVILEX and PATHSI-DER codes?  The codes being so simple, it seems unlikely they would have been taken seriously as ways of maintaining secrecy.

They were likely trying to guard the secret number of missiles produced.  The codes wouldn't have been seen by the public during the R&D phase, because the Army controlled the images, the vehicles were shrouded and airlifted in, and all services kept the press off of the base, too far away to make out such details. 

Determined spies wouldn't have had to decipher the codes based on images of missiles.  They would have gained access to appropriations documents or worked from the inside, maybe even helping build the missiles.  A code simply made it more difficult for Soviet intelligence to get the answers (i.e., they couldn't do it by reading the newspapers), and probably bought some time.  Part of the spying game is making the other guy devote his intelligence resources.

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 07/05/2011 02:56 am by edkyle99 »

Offline Proponent

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Re: Jupiter History
« Reply #32 on: 07/05/2011 11:41 am »
But if the idea was to keep the Soviets in the dark about the number of missiles produced, why not use a better code, like assigning a random four-digit serial number to each missile?

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Jupiter History
« Reply #33 on: 07/05/2011 01:40 pm »
But if the idea was to keep the Soviets in the dark about the number of missiles produced, why not use a better code, like assigning a random four-digit serial number to each missile?

I don't know for sure, but given its history with Redstone, it seems that the ABMA group wanted an easy way to keep track of its missiles[1].  It helped to know immediately, without having to go back to the shop to look it up, if a particular vehicle was a certain production model (early Jupiters, for example, only used 135Klbf engines, didn't have full ST-90 inertial guidance, and probably didn't have full blown roll control via. turbo exhaust steering.  So the code would be a compromise, not making it easy for the other guys, but also not making it too hard for your own guys.

 - Ed Kyle

[1] Not as easy as we might think, given the emergency rush of the time.  ABMA and Chrysler built 30 Jupiters per year for a couple of years, and 93 (or 94, depending on the source) within just five years.  These were shuffled from test stand to launch stand (some) to deployment, etc.
« Last Edit: 07/05/2011 09:28 pm by edkyle99 »

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Jupiter History
« Reply #34 on: 07/05/2011 04:09 pm »
One thing I haven't yet found is an image of the base of the "aft unit", the tapered section that housed the guidance and that served as the "bus" for the nose cone.  The "aft unit" (visible with the roll bar markings in the image of the displayed Jupiter at the Huntsville museum) had a solid fuel vernier motor (with squibs that blew off the nozzle on guidance command), a pair of spin motors, and a set of cold gas thrusters for control.

The spinning, ablative heat shielded nose cone shrieked into the atmosphere, enduring a max of 44 Gs as it slowed from about 4,660 m/s to 166 m/s in only 66 seconds.  This design, first proven by ABMA, is said to have proved more accurate than the blunt body Mk 2 heat-sink reentry vehicle used by Thor and, initially, Atlas.  A similar, though lighter, design was eventually employed by other U.S. missiles.

 - Ed Kyle

Here, thanks to Art LeBron, is the image I was looking for.  This photo, of Missile CM-217's aft unit, shows the bracket that held the vernier and spin motors, but not the motors themselves.  They were probably installed after the missile had been erected on the pad.  The ST-90 guidance platform would have been just behind that shiny insulated bulkhead, BTW. 

Now I'm looking for a photo of the top of the Jupiter "thrust unit" body, specifically of the kerosene tank top bulkhead.  One drawing I've seen shows that this bulkhead might not have been a continuous hemisphere.  It showed an inset in the bulkhead into which the vernier motor extended.  I'm not sure I believe the drawing, but then again ABMA was initially trying to "squish" this missile to meet Navy requirements.

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 07/05/2011 09:29 pm by edkyle99 »

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Jupiter History
« Reply #35 on: 07/07/2011 04:20 am »
Here's an "almost" image showing the top of the RP-1 tank (LOX was below the RP tank) among the "fatter" Jupiter missiles lined up on the left.  This photo may have been taken at Chrysler's Michigan Ordnance Missile Plant in then Warren, Michigan (today's Sterling Heights), where both Redstone and Jupiter missiles were produced.  Chrysler built 30 Jupiters per year here for a couple of years - and this was the least-produced of the "big four" missiles.

Those S-3 series engines in the middle are also of interest.  These "150K" engines were in great demand then, also being produced, in modified form, for Thor and Atlas (and later, Saturn).  Rocketdyne was manufacturing more than 200 of these per year when this image was made, a number that neared 400 per year by the early 1960s. 

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 07/08/2011 05:27 pm by edkyle99 »

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Jupiter History
« Reply #36 on: 07/07/2011 06:42 pm »
Here are a few more images of Jupiter production at Warren/Sterling Heights, from newsreels.  One of the images shows a slightly better view of the forward RP-1 tank bulkhead, which does appear to have a "cap" with, possibly, an indentation in it where the vernier motor nozzle extended.

Note the work stands for the Aft Unit.  Looks a bit like a "mini-Dragon".  It seems likely that the early missile "buses" served as models for the early human spacecraft designs.

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 07/08/2011 05:27 pm by edkyle99 »

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Jupiter History
« Reply #37 on: 07/07/2011 06:47 pm »
This pan, created from another film, has me puzzled.  I'm not sure where this was filmed.  It doesn't look like the Sterling Heights site viewed in previous images, so it may have been at ABMA, perhaps what is now Building 4705 which was used later for Saturn assembly.

At any rate, fully 11 Jupiters in various states of assembly are visible in this image.  That represents nearly 12% of the total number of Jupiter missiles ever produced!  Note the Aft Unit build stands in the background.

You may wonder why the newsreel press was allowed to film the secret missile production lines.  The reason?  Eisenhower needed to offset the "missile gap" talk among his political opponents!  As you can see from these shots of America's smallest "big-4" ballistic missile production line, there "weren't no gap"!  (Still, that message never seemed to get through to the general public.)

If Elon Musk is really serious about his launch rates, he'll need to be able to show off a similar production line some day.  To do that, based on the number of people needed for Jupiter, he might need to quadruple his employment numbers.

Brings to mind the question "why wasn't Jupiter turned into a long-lived orbital launcher?"  It sure does look like those "fat" Jupiters (compared to Thor) look like they should have been a good match for a juicy powerful upper stage.  More about all of that later... 

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 07/07/2011 07:34 pm by edkyle99 »

Offline Art LeBrun

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Re: Jupiter History
« Reply #38 on: 07/08/2011 06:15 am »
For some reason I do not think any group wanted Jupiter for space launch. I know some were scrapped overseas and some parts salvaged but how many were returned for storage if any? I assume any US stored missiles were also scrapped. Perhaps the pending glut of Thor and Atlas istarting in 1963 reduced the need for Jupiter and Titan 1..........
1958 launch vehicle highlights: Vanguard TV-4 and Atlas 12B

Offline Art LeBrun

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Re: Jupiter History
« Reply #39 on: 07/08/2011 06:54 am »
Here's an "almost" image showing the top of the RP-1 tank (LOX was below the RP tank) among the "fatter" Jupiter missiles lined up on the left.  This photo may have been taken at Chrysler's Michigan Ordnance Missile Plant in Sterling Heights, Michigan, where both Redstone and Jupiter missiles were produced.  Chrysler built 30 Jupiters per year here for a couple of years - and this was the least-produced of the "big four" missiles.

Those S-3 series engines in the middle are also of interest.  These "150K" engines were in great demand then, also being produced, in modified form, for Thor and Atlas (and later, Saturn).  Rocketdyne was manufacturing more than 200 of these per year when this image was made, a number that neared 400 per year by the early 1960s. 

 - Ed Kyle
This same image is posted on Jim Ryan's www.myarmyredstonedays.com. His caption gives the location as Warren, Michigan and the date as December 1957. You can find it on Slide Show in folder Redstone Miscellaneous page 2.

Possibly the "cap' was for access into the RP-1 tank.
« Last Edit: 07/08/2011 07:00 am by Art LeBrun »
1958 launch vehicle highlights: Vanguard TV-4 and Atlas 12B

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