Everything I've been able to gather is that this was a study proposal by one laboratory in the USAF.
Pumping the fuel into the tank during flight makes perfect sense - it really reduces the boiloff during flight and the amount of insulation required. There might also be an effect of reducing the loads that the tank and mounting equipment have to tolerate.
Quote from: yinzer on 09/30/2009 03:19 amPumping the fuel into the tank during flight makes perfect sense - it really reduces the boiloff during flight and the amount of insulation required. There might also be an effect of reducing the loads that the tank and mounting equipment have to tolerate.It completely alters the CG of the aircraft while in flight. And it requires the pumping of cryogenics, while in flight and inside an airplane.
Pioneer rocketplane was planning to do pretty much the same thing, and appear to have run aground on gross economic issues, not technical ones.
Quote from: yinzer on 09/30/2009 11:46 pmPioneer rocketplane was planning to do pretty much the same thing, and appear to have run aground on gross economic issues, not technical ones. That's not exactly an existence proof.
Maybe instead of on top of a 747 we put it underneath. Then instead of a 747 lets use a Mach 3 capable carrier that can reach 70,000ft.Oh wait a sec...
You can say the same thing about UFOs, or top secret aircraft in general. Simply put: "Where are they?"In the 1990s there was a lot of speculation about all kinds of top secret aircraft being tested out in Area 51. Some pretty incredible claims. You would think that if these things were successful, by now--12+ years later--they would be incorporated into the Air Force and would be in operational use. (Like the Blackbird and later the F-117.) In other words, we would know about them. But they haven't appeared. This leads to a few tentative conclusions: a) these claims were almost all wildly speculative and exaggerated, and b) much of what has been tested is not necessarily in the form of new aircraft, but in the form of things like electronics and missiles that have since entered operational use.Back to the ALSV: this appears to be a marginal technological solution in search of a problem. What exactly was the requirement? Quick reaction launch of relatively small payloads was apparently not a high demand back then. And there were (are) better ways of achieving it.
Or they want to keep it a secret still for other reasons. For example, the rumors about the TR-3B, if true, are a sea change in technology and capabilities.
Quote from: OV-106 on 10/15/2009 05:49 pmOr they want to keep it a secret still for other reasons. For example, the rumors about the TR-3B, if true, are a sea change in technology and capabilities. It seems highly unlikely that a secret aircraft could enter extensive operational use and remain totally unknown/unseen. Once it starts flying regularly, and is based somewhere closer to the target, it will be seen. One or two, yes. A bunch? No.Certainly there were other secret aircraft developed there that remain secret. But they were most likely prototypes. And it is hard to believe that there were a lot of prototypes. Why build a lot of secret prototypes and then never put them into production?
I don't know, the F-117 was operational for 5 years before it was disclosed. It was disclosed because the government chose to do it.
Quote from: OV-106 on 10/16/2009 01:25 amI don't know, the F-117 was operational for 5 years before it was disclosed. It was disclosed because the government chose to do it. They were training with it for 5 years before it was disclosed. It was public when it flew its first operational mission (Panama). They disclosed it because they calculated that they could not use it for the purpose that it was designed (bombing) without it becoming public.
So that leaves us:1. It's the best kept secret since pinky swears.2. It failed an no one wants to own up.3. It never existed.
Quote from: kevin-rf on 10/16/2009 03:07 pmSo that leaves us:1. It's the best kept secret since pinky swears.2. It failed an no one wants to own up.3. It never existed.Multiply by ten times.As noted, there was all kinds of wild speculation in the early to mid-1990s that all kinds of great spooky things were happening. But we've had several wars since then and the spooky planes don't seem to have made a showing.
Again, I reference the F-22. It has not shown up in Afghanistan or Iraq, therefore it most not exist.
Quote from: OV-106 on 10/18/2009 02:28 pmAgain, I reference the F-22. It has not shown up in Afghanistan or Iraq, therefore it most not exist. Your logic is rather faulty, and getting silly.
Seems odd that when production was facing termination, the AF wasn't eager to prove the F-22's worth. Wasn't it given a ground attack role and re-designated F/A-22?
Oh, I'm sorry you think that. Lets review the evidence....
Quote from: OV-106 on 10/18/2009 06:52 pmOh, I'm sorry you think that. Lets review the evidence....Yeah, whatever. I'm back on the ALSV subject. You got anything on that?
Quote from: OV-106 on 10/18/2009 02:28 pmAgain, I reference the F-22. It has not shown up in Afghanistan or Iraq, therefore it most not exist. Seems odd that when production was facing termination, the AF wasn't eager to prove the F-22's worth. Wasn't it given a ground attack role and re-designated F/A-22?
I think we discussed this earlier but the artwork at this link looks similar to the Boeing stuff in your "part 4".https://web.archive.org/web/20131103125517/http://www.pmview.com/spaceodysseytwo/spacelvs/sld053.htmAm still waiting for more TAV materials via FOIAs :/
I think we discussed this earlier but the artwork at this link looks similar to the Boeing stuff in your "part 4".https://web.archive.org/web/20131103125517/http://www.pmview.com/spaceodysseytwo/spacelvs/sld053.htm
I'll note that the website is captured from 2013 and was produced before then (look at the style!).
Quote from: leovinus on 11/10/2025 03:32 pmI think we discussed this earlier but the artwork at this link looks similar to the Boeing stuff in your "part 4".https://web.archive.org/web/20131103125517/http://www.pmview.com/spaceodysseytwo/spacelvs/sld053.htmAm still waiting for more TAV materials via FOIAs :/It's much the same artwork. In some cases I found color versions of black and white art. I think that in one case there has been only black and white art circulating on the internet for a long time, and then NASA suddenly put up a decent color scan of the art. That is one of the things that prompted me to revisit this topic.Unfortunately, for much of the color artwork that has been around awhile, we only have lower resolution scans. It's okay for the internet, but I'd really like to have the best quality scans that we could get. Nobody is bandwidth-limited anymore, and so we don't need 100k jpegs.
It seems that in this case, the Boeing artwork is at NARA.
https://thespacereview.com/article/5100/1
Quote from: Blackstar on 11/11/2025 12:28 pmhttps://thespacereview.com/article/5100/1There are now a few interesting comments below the article.