SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 5)

[jtrame]

The real smack down will come when Dragon berths with ISS. When and if that happens it will be on all the news networks. Of course it could go the other way but if successful the American people will be in Spacex's corner. Everyone loves a winner.

Incorrect premise.  Repeated polls have demonstrated that most 'American people' have no interest whatsoever in space and that applies to most of Congress as well.  There may be 5 seconds of fame on a couple of news channels and then, that'll be about it except for pollie posturing in a few hearings - unfortunately.

Wow, I couldn't believe this so I did a simple Google search : "Poll Results US Space Program"  and just on the first page alone I'm seeing poll results from both CNN/ORC and Rassmussen that indicate more of a 50/50 split, or better in favor of space.  Nothing even close close to "no interest whatsover." 

Either way. probably off topic for this thread; but the main headline is--don't believe everything that is stated just because it is stated.

[docmordrid]

And IMO that support would go up if you give them something to root for.

[manboy]

And IMO that support would go up if you give them something to root for.

Lets not get into this discussion.

[Nascent Ascent]

Update

http://www.spacex.com/updates.php

I bet that's Elon's McLaren in the Mar 14th update pic (circa 2002).

-NA

[beancounter]

The real smack down will come when Dragon berths with ISS. When and if that happens it will be on all the news networks. Of course it could go the other way but if successful the American people will be in Spacex's corner. Everyone loves a winner.

Incorrect premise.  Repeated polls have demonstrated that most 'American people' have no interest whatsoever in space and that applies to most of Congress as well.  There may be 5 seconds of fame on a couple of news channels and then, that'll be about it except for pollie posturing in a few hearings - unfortunately.

Wow, I couldn't believe this so I did a simple Google search : "Poll Results US Space Program"  and just on the first page alone I'm seeing poll results from both CNN/ORC and Rassmussen that indicate more of a 50/50 split, or better in favor of space.  Nothing even close close to "no interest whatsover." 

Either way. probably off topic for this thread; but the main headline is--don't believe everything that is stated just because it is stated.

Ok so how many were polled, i.e. what was the sample size?  What were the questions?  Were they tested to ensure bias was excluded?  How was the data normalised? How was the data collected?  Were all states sampled in the same manner? etc. etc.  50/50 has no statistical bearing whatsoever and is essentially meaningless.

[Ben the Space Brit]

FWIW, there is a big difference between 'interest' and 'willing to pay for'.

Back on topic, though (and it is surprisingly relevant to the OT discussion too), this is the real point of commercial space.  If it takes off, it will free space from the shackles of what the public are willing to pay for.

Regarding Trunk payloads, it seems to me that NASA has been banking very heavily on Cargo Dragon working, given that they have trunk payloads lined up for only the second and third operational CRS missions.  I'm not entirely sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing in terms of the wider ISS program.

[Comga]

FWIW, there is a big difference between 'interest' and 'willing to pay for'.

Back on topic, though (and it is surprisingly relevant to the OT discussion too), this is the real point of commercial space.  If it takes off, it will free space from the shackles of what the public are willing to pay for.

Regarding Trunk payloads, it seems to me that NASA has been banking very heavily on Cargo Dragon working, given that they have trunk payloads lined up for only the second and third operational CRS missions.  I'm not entirely sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing in terms of the wider ISS program.

By "for only the second and third operational CRS missions" do you mean "as early as the 2nd & 3rd flights"?

I know of another payload NASA is planning to fly in the Dragon Trunk, around 2014, possibly on CRS-7.  From this I would guess that they have plans for most of the unpressurized capacity. 

[baldusi]

FWIW, there is a big difference between 'interest' and 'willing to pay for'.

Back on topic, though (and it is surprisingly relevant to the OT discussion too), this is the real point of commercial space.  If it takes off, it will free space from the shackles of what the public are willing to pay for.

Regarding Trunk payloads, it seems to me that NASA has been banking very heavily on Cargo Dragon working, given that they have trunk payloads lined up for only the second and third operational CRS missions.  I'm not entirely sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing in terms of the wider ISS program.

By "for only the second and third operational CRS missions" do you mean "as early as the 2nd & 3rd flights"?

I know of another payload NASA is planning to fly in the Dragon Trunk, around 2014, possibly on CRS-7.  From this I would guess that they have plans for most of the unpressurized capacity. 

VASIMR?

[Comga]

I know of another payload NASA is planning to fly in the Dragon Trunk, around 2014, possibly on CRS-7.  From this I would guess that they have plans for most of the unpressurized capacity. 

VASIMR?

Not VASIMIR. 
I will ask if this information is in the public domain and can be discussed here.  Until then, I couldn't confirm a correct guess, as unlikely as it would be.

[Ben the Space Brit]

By "for only the second and third operational CRS missions" do you mean "as early as the 2nd & 3rd flights"?

I'm not sure; we need to make sure we're reading off the same page here: Does the mission number prefix 'SpX' refer to NASA CRS missions or to complete Dragon system flights? If it is the former, then what I'm reading is what we might have once called CRS-2 and CRS-3 will have trunk payloads.  If it is the latter, then it is what once would have been CRS-1 and CRS-2.

[Comga]

By "for only the second and third operational CRS missions" do you mean "as early as the 2nd & 3rd flights"?

I'm not sure; we need to make sure we're reading off the same page here: Does the mission number prefix 'SpX' refer to NASA CRS missions or to complete Dragon system flights? If it is the former, then what I'm reading is what we might have once called CRS-2 and CRS-3 will have trunk payloads.  If it is the latter, then it is what once would have been CRS-1 and CRS-2.

The PDF shows flights labeled SpX-D, SpX-1, SpX-2, and SpX-3 in times currently anticipated for COTS-2/3, CRS-1, CRS-2, and CRS-3 respectively.  The numbers seem to match the CRS flights, rather than being associated with the berthings and starting with 1 for the upcoming flight.

[Space Pete]

VASIMR?

SAGE III-ISS? OCO-3? PRELSE II? EuTEF-2?

[manboy]

Update

http://www.spacex.com/updates.php

Looks pretty roomy.

To me it looks like they're going to have to re-configure the forward row because it doesn't look like the crew would fit with pressure suits.

I'm also curious how much volume life support and other necessities would take up.

[Lars_J]

To me it looks like they're going to have to re-configure the forward row because it doesn't look like the crew would fit with pressure suits.

Have you seen the inside of Soyuz? Plenty of space when compared to that.

I'm also curious how much volume life support and other necessities would take up.

Yep. This seems to be an early ergonomics test layout. Now they have to stuff it with equipment.

[darkenfast]

I'm also curious how much volume life support and other necessities would take up.

Yep. This seems to be an early ergonomics test layout. Now they have to stuff it with equipment.
[/quote]

I believe that there is a disk-shaped space about 6'9" (2.1m) in diameter and about 2' (.6m) deep under the deck.

[manboy]

To me it looks like they're going to have to re-configure the forward row because it doesn't look like the crew would fit with pressure suits.

Have you seen the inside of Soyuz? Plenty of space when compared to that.

Maybe I'm just overestimating how close Dustin Gohmert and Laura Crabtree are to the wall and the size of ACES style helmets.

I'm also curious how much volume life support and other necessities would take up.

Yep. This seems to be an early ergonomics test layout. Now they have to stuff it with equipment.

I believe that there is a disk-shaped space about 6'9" (2.1m) in diameter and about 2' (.6m) deep under the deck.

Judging from the second picture it looks like you're right.

[docmordrid]

Don't know if this has been posted before, but this is a report by Paragon about their EC/LSS for CCDev 1 - and they have SpaceX listed as a customer on their site.

http://nasainvitation.com/files/ICESHighAspectRatio.pdf

[Comga]

To me it looks like they're going to have to re-configure the forward row because it doesn't look like the crew would fit with pressure suits.

Have you seen the inside of Soyuz? Plenty of space when compared to that.

I'm also curious how much volume life support and other necessities would take up.

Yep. This seems to be an early ergonomics test layout. Now they have to stuff it with equipment.

On the other hand....
The last image from the update shows Musk, Waldheim, and Reisman standing between the footrests and large objects eached marked "Cargo Rack".  It appears that SpaceX has taken some effort to fill volumes that would not be available during crew loading.  It would then seem unlikely that they would have not filed the volume needed for ECLSS and other known subsystems.

[apace]

Dragon inside looks really larger than I have expected... love to see the progress this year with the manned milestones and see more photos including user interfaces.

[Space OurSoul]

Hadn't seen this posted before. BBC interview with Elon. Of particular interest is the 20-minute audio interview. Elon gives some more details on the "move-to-mars" plan/fantasy, and the interviewer does a pretty good job of not getting blown over by Elon's vision/bluster.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17439490

paraphrased quote: "we'll reveal more details about that plan later this year"

That'll be fascinating/amusing.

-Jeff

(The slashes indicate the end-points of my personal range of reactions to Musk's claims :-) )